05-09-2002 09:09									#91
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quote: Which is why there already is movements towards cleaner energy

Estimated value so far less than 0.2% GHG's emissions, Alberta is projected to lead the nation with a 64% increase in the next 8 years of GHG's.

Woopty doo try harder.

	05-09-2002 09:10									#92
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Estimated value so far less than 0.2% GHG's emissions, Alberta is projected to lead the nation with a 64% increase in the next 8 years of GHG's. Woopty doo try harder.

Isn't it amazing that Alberta would lead the nation in growth of pollution considering it's the fastest growing region in the nation? Isn't it also amazing that Alberta would lead the nation in growth of pollution considering the incredible rate that oil production is on the rise?

This is PRECISELY why Kyoto isn't good for anyone involved. Alberta isn't the only place to get the oil for these multinational corporations, they're just going to go somewhere else and get it once the feds make it unnecessarily expensive for the sake of meeting Kyoto..

I especially like how you point out Alberta accounts for 0.2% of the greenhouse gasses. So the 40,000 people that will lose their jobs over this in Alberta alone are worth a 0.02% reduction in Greenhouse gasses, blackice? Give me a break.

	05-09-2002 09:15									#93
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quote: I'm sorry, I don't see what in the hell that has anything to do with net contribution...

I guess under the agreement that all stops if they do not comply. Quite easy really The feds pump why more money into your economy then you would like to believe.
Most of which is tied to the oil industry. Royalties was 32% last I heard of which what was it? 70-80% was reinvested? That was covered in another thread my guess is you did not read that either.

lot's-o-bucks is the bottom line. This is what the Klein government does not talk about. This is the type of information some Albertans neglect to meantion when they whine about thier contribution to the country called CANADA.

	05-09-2002 09:15									#94
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do I have to insult one of you to get you to answer me quesitno?

	05-09-2002 09:18									#95
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: I especially like how you point out Alberta accounts for 0.2% of the greenhouse gasses. So the 40,000 people that will lose their jobs over this in Alberta alone are worth a 0.02% reduction in Greenhouse gasses, blackice? Give me a break.

I guess in your hurried responce once again not reading the information in front of you. You failed to see I was talking about the 0.2% GHG's reduction because of the solar and transit.

40,000 people, Alberta gave a rats ass about the 600,000 lost to Nafta....What we cry for you now?

	05-09-2002 09:18									#96
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quote: Originally posted by blackice I guess under the agreement that all stops if they do not comply.

$730M is nothing...Alberta's surplus this year, even after $600M of emergency aid for farmers, is more than that.

quote: Quite easy really The feds pump why more money into your economy then you would like to believe. Most of which is tied to the oil industry. Royalties was 32% last I heard of which what was it? 70-80% was reinvested? That was covered in another thread my guess is you did not read that either.

It's quite a simple concept, blackice: They pump "lots" of money ($700something million seems like a big number, but it's actually pretty tiny, btw), but they get MORE money than that from Alberta.

Alberta is a "have" province, it has a net contribution to Canada. We do lose money than if we'd keep it all ourselves, and most Albertans are okay with that until someone like Chretien would threaten to stop funding (with our own money nonetheless).

But keep on finding articles not related to what I'm talking about and try to act like it is. I don't think you understand the term net contribution, because to rebut my point you referenced an article talking about some grants the government made to oil companies to encourage Canadian exploration.

	05-09-2002 09:19									#97
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Sava the later "Creatine"

	05-09-2002 09:19									#98
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I see your sschwartzx is as big as miNE!!!

OMG TY ASher!!1

	05-09-2002 09:19									#99
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quote: Originally posted by blackice I guess in your hurried responce once again not reading the information in front of you. You failed to see I was talking about the 0.2% GHG's reduction because of the solar and transit.

Maybe that's because you never said anything of the sort?

quote: 40,000 people, Alberta gave a rats ass about the 600,000 lost to Nafta....What we cry for you now?

Jobs were created by NAFTA too, that's the point. NAFTA caused a reorganization of some sectors of the economy. Some parts lost jobs, some parts gained jobs.

Kyoto won't create any jobs, despite what David Suzuki claims in his ramblings.

	05-09-2002 09:20									#100
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quote: $700something million seems like a big number, but it's actually pretty tiny,

Try again

	05-09-2002 09:21									#101
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quote: Jobs were created by NAFTA too, that's the point.

And jobs will be created with Koyto that's the point.

	05-09-2002 09:22									#102
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quote: Originally posted by pchang China's pollution levels have increased dramatically over the last 2 decades.

That is directly linked to the dramatic increase in industrial production over the same period of time.

OTOH, the US, with 5% the world's population, uses 20% of the total energy. That's 4 times the average.

	05-09-2002 09:23									#103
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Try again

Maybe once you comprehend what "net contribution" means, and maybe once you understand why Alberta is one of the only "have" provinces in Canada.

Face it, blackice, Alberta puts in more money than it gets from the federal government. That's an obvious fact everyone knows. Citing sources of $700something million in grants to oil companies doesn't prove a thing when Alberta probably contributed all of that money, and some, to the federal coffers.

If Chretien threatens to withhold payments from Alberta so Alberta would comply, Alberta would threaten to withhold payments from Ottawa.

Think about it, that $700something million figure you cited is more than covered by this year's surplus, which was halved already by emergency relief for Farmers who had the worst drought in 132 years.

Add in the money saved if Alberta didn't contribute to equalization, and that's a lot of money.

	05-09-2002 09:23									#104
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oh man blackice, if the last two letters of that name were TUS instead of TO, that would be an awesome missplieling

	05-09-2002 09:24									#105
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quote: because to rebut my point you referenced an article talking about some grants the government made to oil companies to encourage Canadian exploration.

Asher grant's? Tax breaks etc etc the whole gamit it goes. Gone ends and taxes go up for them anyone heard of NEP this time it will be because of international law.

Just jump on board make the consessions pad the economy grab the new techs and move on...

	05-09-2002 09:25									#106
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quote: Originally posted by blackice And jobs will be created with Koyto that's the point.

Yeah, that's right.
All those jobs will be created when Exxon, ChevronTexaco, Shell, BP-Amoco, etc all close down half of their plants and increase production in Ecuador or Venezuela.

The environmentalists are running around screaming "oh but there'll be a HUGE new market for energy efficient stuff!". There's not going to be a huge number. No matter how much the government snaps its fingers there's not going to be some magical technology to fix everything, which would thereby create magical jobs to implement that technology. You're living in a fantasy world.

	05-09-2002 09:26									#107
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So how is this thread going for everyone?

Jon Miller

	05-09-2002 09:26									#108
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sava to true

	05-09-2002 09:27									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller So how is this thread going for everyone? Jon Miller

Great for me, blackice is spinning in circles copying and pasting irrelevant and misleading information from unnamed sites and probably thinks it's going damn good for him...

	05-09-2002 09:27									#110
	Got spare money?

I'm havni fnnn just spmaminmg awyaw... my frinends are laughing tt me now!

	05-09-2002 09:29									#111
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quote: All those jobs will be created when Exxon, ChevronTexaco, Shell, BP-Amoco, etc all close down half of their plants and increase production in Ecuador or Venezuela.

Ya right I'm taking my billion's of dollars investment to a lesser field fvck you good one Asher. Ok if they do great CANADA, ALBERTA owns the energy again. Do you honestly believe that will happen?

	05-09-2002 09:31									#112
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This thread is going nowhere. No one is making any sense.

	05-09-2002 09:31									#113
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yaeh that'll happen as sono as e+54 89 = the qsuare root of E98977 okay this is my lasssst psot

	05-09-2002 09:31									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I'm havni fnnn just spmaminmg awyaw... my frinends are laughing tt me now!

Which ones are these?

Jon Miller

	05-09-2002 09:32									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Sava yaeh that'll happen as sono as e+54 89 = the qsuare root of E98977 okay this is my lasssst psot

No!

You are suppose to start at least 5 threads...

Jon Miller

	05-09-2002 09:32									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller Which ones are these? Jon Miller

Don't make fun of his friends because they have an appearance disorder which causes them to be transparant...

	05-09-2002 09:32									#117
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The magic bullet Asher is called "energy intensity" anyone in the oil industry knows that term.

The ability to use less energy to move crude heavy oil to the states for processing is one.

The better the "energy intensity" the more profits.

Why do you ignore this simple fact?

	05-09-2002 09:35									#118
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yeahh rihg yoda hjaed... acutalyl I' m watign for my frindd ryan to get here so we can go to barss,,, its better to ge gt drun k befoer yo u go so yuo spend less money....... waynnne and Kara are watching TV and laughing at my durnk ass... Adam is ni the bathrooom going to the battroom before we laeve

	05-09-2002 09:35									#119
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by blackice The better the "energy intensity" the more profits. Why do you ignore this simple fact?

If by "ignore" you mean "talk about this in your posts", then I'd see what you mean.

Of course energy intensity is great for profits, which is precisely why the facilities in Alberta are all very modern. They WANT more profits. This is why the facilities have continually been upgraded.

The problem is the QUANTITY of such facilities has risen dramatically since 1990, and the only way to get to 1990 levels again is to shut down a lot of them.

Why must YOU ignore that simple fact?

You said it yourself, the better the energy intensity the better the profits. These companies are based upon profits, so why do you need the government to legislate Kyoto when all it will do is force closures to meet the agreement?

	05-09-2002 09:36									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Sava yeahh rihg yoda hjaed... acutalyl I' m watign for my frindd ryan to get here so we can go to barss,,, its better to ge gt drun k befoer yo u go so yuo spend less money....... waynnne and Kara are watching TV and laughing at my durnk ass... Adam is ni the bathrooom going to the battroom before we laeve

Have a good time!

Jon Miller