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Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 06-09-2002 02:34
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4000 Jews stayed home on 9/11 Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Did anyone see 60 Minutes II last night? Dan Rather presented a report that showed that virtually every Muslim in the Arab world believed that Israel warned 4,000 Jews to stay home on 9/11 and to not go to work at the WTC. They all believe that Israel was behind the attacks, not OBL.

CBS traced the origin of the story to Hezbollah propaganda first published a few days after the attack in a Lebanese newspaper. Since then, it has become Gospel in the Arab world.

Regardless of anything else, this shows that the Arab world is not operating on the same set of assumed facts as we are concerning our war on terror or on Iraq. If we are to have any hope of calming the Arab world down, someone responsible that the Arabs trust must counter this propaganda.

Bush has been calling on the Saudi's and the Egyptians, among others, to help calm the situation by at least toning down the rhetoric. Apparently, this has not happened. In fact, all we here are threats from the Arab world.

There appear to be no calming voices in Arabia. Everyone seems intent on inflaming the people into a frenzy of anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism. Bush and Sharon are equally devils.

Because of this propaganda, it does appear that there is a ristk that any attack on Iraq might immediately become a general war in the area.

"What are we to do?" Rather asked.

He got a blank stare from the government official in charge of the matter. Rather himself had no answer.

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 02:52
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quote:
There appear to be no calming voices in Arabia. Everyone seems intent on inflaming the people into a frenzy of anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism. Bush and Sharon are equally devils


Those arguments can equally be reversed and applied to the US. All be it to a lesser extent. Americans are being "spun" into agreeing with the need of action against Iraq.

Heck, Europe is working on different base assumptions to the US and so are not so keen on the idea of intervention.

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
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Aug 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
quote:
There appear to be no calming voices in Arabia. Everyone seems intent on inflaming the people into a frenzy of anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism. Bush and Sharon are equally devils


Those arguments can equally be reversed and applied to the US. All be it to a lesser extent. Americans are being "spun" into agreeing with the need of action against Iraq.

Heck, Europe is working on different base assumptions to the US and so are not so keen on the idea of intervention.


Yeah? At least the Americans aren't pulling "4,000 Muslims stayed home on9/11" claptrap out of their ass.

There's Making a case...and there's propaganda.

yaroslav is offline yaroslav
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Jun 2001
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 03:04
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Re: 4000 Jews stayed home on 9/11 Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Did anyone see 60 Minutes II last night? Dan Rather presented a report that showed that virtually every Muslim in the Arab world believed that Israel warned 4,000 Jews to stay home on 9/11 and to not go to work at the WTC.


I read the same on 'El Pais' (www.elpais.es), the journal of recod on Spain. But 'El Pais' don't say that virtually every Muslim; 'El Pais' don't give exact numbers.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 03:05
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But, SD, we have real debate here in the United States. Doesn't something like that also happen in Europe?

Ned is offline Ned
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 03:07
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Yarolsav, Yes CBS conducted a poll in a number of countries. I guess this data is what was really news last night.

Virtually every muslim, from poor to the highly educated, from government official to businessmen. Everyone!

MarkG is offline MarkG
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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:22
  Old Post 06-09-2002 03:21 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Yeah? At least the Americans aren't pulling "4,000 Muslims stayed home on9/11" claptrap
nope, they just show OBL killing cute dogs...

hey, how about a "buy from the apolyton store or OBL will kill a puppie" banner?

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
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Jan 1970
time: 05:22
  Old Post 06-09-2002 03:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Lonestar


Yeah? At least the Americans aren't pulling "4,000 Muslims stayed home on9/11" claptrap out of their ass.

There's Making a case...and there's propaganda.


I agree, I did say to a lesser extent, but America is biased. What Americans take as read many people see as unproven. It must be remembered that not everyone will agree with the US - bold assertions need to be justified with evidence - not just saying "We know Saddam is doing this or that"

Has any evidence against Saddam actually be shown either to the US public or to the peoples of the Middle East. Until it has the US position could merely be seen as propaganda in the eyes of the Muslim world. That is my point.

Incidentally, I do think that the Arabs who are pulling this argument are beyond contempt, and have made no effort to justify the claim.


quote:
But, SD, we have real debate here in the United States. Doesn't something like that also happen in Europe?


So do we, but we seem to draw different conclusions based on the facts before us. Which is understandable, because we are coming from a different angle - we were not attacked on 11/9.

Who is right is up in the air. I am more inclined to agree with the US position that Saddam is a threat, but most Europeans, who are not necessarily opposed to action against Saddam, need convincing that it is right and justified..

Faeelin is offline Faeelin
Chieftain
Tau Ceti
Oct 2001
time: 05:22
  Old Post 06-09-2002 03:24
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
quote:
Yeah? At least the Americans aren't pulling "4,000 Muslims stayed home on9/11" claptrap
nope, they just show OBL killing cute dogs...

hey, how about a "buy from the apolyton store or OBL will kill a puppie" banner?


Yes, the idea that al-queda would test biological weapons on animals is absurd.

Humans are cheaper.

Nice try, Mark.

MarkG is offline MarkG
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Jan 1970
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first ingredient

1 puppy photo

Adalbertus is offline Adalbertus
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Cologne, Germany
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 03:43 Visit Adalbertus's homepage!
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As I know our media (and I don't think that US media are much different from German media) it would be impossible to keep a warning to 4000 Jews a secret. If it could remain secret in the US, I'd really worry for the liberty of press ... (as much as I'm angry about headlines like "authorities about to strike against terrorists..."). You can tell me many conspiration theories but none with 4000 people keeping a secret.

MarkG is offline MarkG
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 03:44 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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darn, i cant find a screenshot of eminem doing osama...

MarkG is offline MarkG
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huh!

found it!

MarkG is offline MarkG
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 03:54 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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end of threadjacking
see http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...?threadid=61111

Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:03
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quote:
into a frenzy of anti-Semitism

Those horrible horrible self-hating arabs!

And the US is doing something! They filmed a Moroccan (think it was moroccan) female hurdles gold medalists runing around dodging people in veils with a voice over about how peace is all warm and fuzzy and they'll be paying to having it aired on Mid-east TV. That'll definately make everything all right again...

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:22
  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:07
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Arabs seem to prefer a comfertable lie to a harsh truth. This has been a reoccuring theme in their culture since the beginning.

Yeah the dirty Jews must have did it because we Arabs are so peaceful...

Last edited by Oerdin on 06-09-2002 at 04:13

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Boshko
Those horrible horrible self-hating arabs!


Bushko,
Samantic arguments about Arabs also being semites are really useless. Everyone knows that in the English language Anti-Semtic means Anti-Jewish. Yes, Arabs are genologically Semites but who says languages were ever that accurate? Spliting hairs on samantics just isn't productive.

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Arabs seem to prefer a comfertable lie to a harsh truth.


Again the same can be said of Americans. How many Americans understand why so many peoples hate them?

The reasons most Americans would give are comfortable lies, rather than harsh truths.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin


Again the same can be said of Americans. How many Americans understand why so many peoples hate them?

The reasons most Americans would give are comfortable lies, rather than harsh truths.


Please be more specific. What lie is it that we are supposedly believing? The anwser is there isn't one. It boils down to Americans have different policies then other countries but the policies are based upon real facts. Different people can interpert the same facts differently but that truth remains that the policies are baised upon reality and not lies.

yaroslav is offline yaroslav
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Jun 2001
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
How many Americans understand why so many peoples hate them?


This remind me a photo of the 'El Pais' report.

(I'm not saying that nor Sagacious Dolphin neither I agree with the photo people. It's only that the photo ask the same question.)

Those of the photo are pro-taliban supporters

Attachment: photo.jpg
This has been downloaded 159 time(s).

yaroslav is offline yaroslav
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Jun 2001
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:21
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Sinceresly, I firmly believe that many missunderstanding between Europa and United States come from problems of communication

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:22
  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:21
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SD : the muslim world is one of the least affected by american economical and geopolitical policy , yet it was the source of the 9-11 attacks. Attempting to explain attacks such as this buy blaming them wholly , or mostly, on low living conditions , is , in my opinion , illogical. You can try and argue , though.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
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Sep 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:30 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Take Muslim extremist's word for it. uh yeah.
HEY! I stayed home 9/11.
Maybe It was really Texans of Celtic heritage that did it.



(sheesh. Where does it end? )

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


Please be more specific.


Why do you think many peoples hate the US?

Your answer will probably not be the same as the reasons given by the people who hate the US.

On a lighter note, many Americans do not understand why Europeans have a dislike for many American actions and policies. They talk about the Europeans getting in the way for reason X, Y or Z - reasons which are usually inaccurate.

quote:
Attempting to explain attacks such as this buy blaming them wholly , or mostly, on low living conditions , is , in my opinion , illogical


I never attempted to do anything of the sort.

I just think that Americans have many misconceptions of motives. Europeans are no better, but they are not so important or globally active for it to be a problem.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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"On a lighter note, many Americans do not understand why Europeans have a dislike for many American actions and policies. They talk about the Europeans getting in the way for reason X, Y or Z - reasons which are usually inaccurate."

And vise-versa.

Az is offline Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:36
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oh.

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:38
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand

And vise-versa.


But that vice-versa is what makes this place so fun. It would be so boring if everyone agrees with each other.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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There isn't a chance in Hades of THAT happening.

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
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  Old Post 06-09-2002 04:52
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I vehemently disagree.

Bosh is offline Bosh
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Bah! I like semantic hair-splitting!

quote:
Please be more specific. What lie is it that we are supposedly believing?


quote:
an enemy which hates freedom doesn't hit us again. They're out there, they can't stand the thought of America being a hospitable society to many cultures. They can't stand the thought of a society which worships an almighty God in different ways, a society which is tolerant to different approaches to religion. They really hate the thought of us being a society in which we are able to speak our mind, a society which values the individual worth of each person. And so so long as we uphold those values, which we will do, they're going to try to strike us.

Dubya

 
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