07-10-2002 19:01									#61
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What about a spy unit. The balloon goes into an enemy city posing as a travailing circus and looks at what the city has got from a few hundred feet in the air.

	07-10-2002 21:45									#62
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what do i use to view the sprites ?

	07-10-2002 22:28									#63
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by SMIFFGIG what do i use to view the sprites ?

Unfortunatly we don't have a sprite viewer, therefore the only tool to view a sprite is the game itsself.

-Martin

	08-10-2002 16:20									#64
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I havent had time to read through all of this thread yet (apologies if i am repeating something)

Personally I always liked the idea of more gradual development of units and not so big steps up. In civ2 i tried to make scenarios that had early, modern and furuistic tanks, and went from biplane to ww2 fighter to jet fighter to f22 style futuristic fighter.

I think there is room for 2 or more gun infantry units in ctp2. Gunpowder could give you a basic musketeer or arquebusier unit, that still needs the protection of pikemen. Im not an expert but I know that pikeman/musketeer combination was still being used after 1700 at least, musketeers as a close-combat unit in those times would still be mauled to pieces. Not until they got improved guns and bayonets and better tactics did you get the all-rounder infrantryman style unit of ctp2.

Maybe there could be a napoleonic style infantryman and a american civil war breech-loading rifle type unit, both these units instead of just the infantryman?

I think maybe there could be a ww1 style infantry unit as well as the machine gunner, representing better tactics (not everyone in a big line charging the enemy so much).

This unit would stay useful until you get marines or more general modern 'assault troops' as I liked to have in civ2 (representing modern assault rifles, thermal imaging etc and better armour).

I like the idea of zepplins too. They had a short lifespan in our reality, but what if aeroplane development had lagged behind by 30 years or more?

Overall I think more units, more gradual development would be great, but not so much as to make your existing units obsolete every few turns!

	08-10-2002 16:38									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Daftpanzer I like the idea of zepplins too. They had a short lifespan in our reality, but what if aeroplane development had lagged behind by 30 years or more?

what if the hindenburg hadn't blown up at lake hurst and there would have been no ww2?

zeppelins would have been the primary way of intercontinental passenger transport for some decades!

ok, thats maybe not so interesting in terms of warfare, but I'd really like to do a cruise on a luxury class zeppelin

	08-10-2002 17:36									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox ...but I'd really like to do a cruise on a luxury class zeppelin

I would love to cruise in a luxury class Zeppelin myself. I have spent the best part of a day in a modern day dirigible (as they called it) - definitely worth the price of admission – if you get the chance, jump at it (not out of it though ).

Balloons played a big recon role in WW1 and even before that. I believe they unquestionably belong in the game. Empire Earth has some balloons that could be used for sprites.

	08-10-2002 18:19									#67
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I have a dream … I’ve always wanted the unit upgrade process to be more unit specific and gradual.

For example:
* The default unit is a Tank (or an Infantryman, or Knight whatever).
* By researching something (or spending money; or both), you can upgrade to a Mark 1 Tank. Same unit, but a better engine = +1 movement.
* More research (or money), your Mark 1 Tank becomes a Mark 2 and gets some extra armour = +1 defence.
* Throw some more scientists or cash at the problem, and the Mark 3 Tank proves that the size of your gun really is important = +1 attack.
Etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Doing this would allow more differentiation between similar units; making battles a little more interesting; and could even allow an older Mark 3+ unit to defeat a newer default unit.

However, I think the programming behind this would be gruelling and it could give the player too many unnecessary, micro-management choices. Add to that a guppy-brained AI and the idea starts sounding like the Titanic.

If only…

	08-10-2002 18:31									#68
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More or less your talking of a unit shop like SMAC has, only that with that game you get it properly implemented.
As for the work involved - rewriting the tech tree and all the new units won't be harder than the work e.g. for that part of cradle but it 'd be a lot of work.
Dale's developping something along those lines for his AOM mod. Might want to read that thread.

	08-10-2002 22:07									#69
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I think it would be great if different civs might upgrade their units in different ways like that, with different methods to try out. Battles between tanks with extra firepower and tanks with extra armour would be cool... the different civs trying to find the most effective type of tank to build.

	09-10-2002 05:46									#70
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there is one big problem in tinkering with the different tanks (or whatever):
the way the units appear on the battlescreen!
i often enough had really planned which units to stack for what i thought could be a really effective mix of weapons for a specific task just to see the game place my artillery in the frontline and stuff like that. does anybody know how the units are placed in the combat screen and if that can perhaps be done manually? (though thats unneccessary and timeconsuming for most battles)

btw: i really wonder why in naval battles when i go to battle with my standard small recon fleet (1 destroyer, 1 patrolboat(? not sure whats their english name, my vanilla game used to be in german)) against one single vessel they didn't line up behind each other, both of them have bombard capabillity!)

	09-10-2002 08:34									#71
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quote: I’ve always wanted the unit upgrade process to be more unit specific and gradual.

We could create a order called upgrade. By using this order a message pop up telling you your possibilities of upgrade.
You choose one and you rplace the old unit by a brand new and upgraded one.
It is totally possible and i must say that the SLIC will be very simple yet repetitive therefore handful.

Not to mention the thougths that must be in the tech tree, in the upgrade line and the massive number of new units you will need in the unit.txt (not hard though just a lot of cut and paste).

Yet totally possible.

	09-10-2002 12:55									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn Yet totally possible.

Whoohoo! Christmas came early this year.

	09-10-2002 14:11									#73
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Hindenburg disaster was all the Americans fault. If it had been maid using helium like they wanted and not hydrogen which the Americans forced them to use by not trading the needed helium.

	10-10-2002 04:08									#74
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DOT & Mapfi:

Yes, I've got something similar to what you say in AOM, but not done the same way. Yes, the unit will upgrade after relevant research (IE: +50% defence on researching Primitive Steel for Hoplites). No, you don't get promted. No, it won't cost to upgrade. Yes, I use the SAME sprite (harder to tell what Civ has what upgrade). Yes, I'm using Peter's upgrade SLIC for when a new unit becomes available (major tech breakthrough, IE: From Bireme to Coracle when Sails are researched).

It works well.

	10-10-2002 13:43									#75
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Dale, thanks for the 411. Just a thought: Would it be better to offer the choice to upgrade to the human player (the AI gets the upgrade regardless, off course); and charge for it? Do you think it would add or subtract from the game? Or is it just too cumbersome to implement? Can’t wait for AOM!

	10-10-2002 18:22									#76
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It will make the ai harder to beat which will make the game better.

	10-10-2002 19:32									#77
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I just thought of something (it happens ). What about a unit that “infects” other units? Not cities like the Infector etc. Something like a chemical or bio-bomb? It doesn’t kill the unit – just decreases it’s HP – and is destroyed in the process.

	10-10-2002 20:15									#78
	Put an end to popups!

DoT, i thought of a similar idea. Only not a unit but terrain, eg

When unit(s) walk over Jungle terrain there is a 2% chance that they get a disease and ther hitpoints decrease for a turn or two. The same could apply to desert (famine) snow (cold) mountain (loads of things) etc etc) would make you think about which routes u took, what units u used to explore and how often you did so.
however as i am not a modder a can never put my ideas into play

	10-10-2002 20:20									#79
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Chemical Missile
How about a chemical missile weapon that had an instant effect of killing units in a city but also had the same effect as an infector long term. The graphics could be used from the Civ3 Nuke or Cruise missile graphics ?

	10-10-2002 20:20									#80
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I made a gaia bomb the over day yes it a cross between a nuke and an eco ranger.

	10-10-2002 20:22									#81
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Now thats a good idea Big Mc, for Ectopian government only.
however i think it would have to have unique graphics and not just look like another missile (IMO)

	10-10-2002 20:43									#82
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I am planning on taking the tactical nuke from civ3.

However to make it work you must over right most of the nuke commands.

	10-10-2002 20:49									#83
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quote: Originally posted by SMIFFGIG DoT, i thought of a similar idea. Only not a unit but terrain, eg...

My knowledge of SLIC is dangerous, but I know this can be done. I will give it a shot, but Pedrunn or IW could probably churn something like this out in a nanosecond. Great idea!

	10-10-2002 20:55									#84
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quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc I made a gaia bomb the over day yes it a cross between a nuke and an eco ranger.

Wouldn’t this make Ecotopian governments too powerful? With these babies, you’d be able to remove an entire civilization – completely . Unlike nukes, which at least spares their cities but leaves ‘em glowing in the dark.

	10-10-2002 21:10									#85
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quote: DoT, i thought of a similar idea. Only not a unit but terrain, eg When unit(s) walk over Jungle terrain there is a 2% chance that they get a disease and ther hitpoints decrease for a turn or two. The same could apply to desert (famine) snow (cold) mountain (loads of things) etc etc) would make you think about which routes u took, what units u used to explore and how often you did so. however as i am not a modder a can never put my ideas into play

This is a terrific idea. All of these you mentioned plus get lost in deep sea and other terrain too. Not hard to do (quite easy to tell you the true just test it and messages could take while). And it is among the top of things to do for quite a while. Unfortunnetly my list of acomplishments is so slowly lately. And the list of thing to do keeps growing.

	10-10-2002 21:11									#86
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This does the same for all intensive purposes it is a nuke the only difference is this baby cleans up after it self.

	10-10-2002 22:25									#87
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From a Q & A thing off civfanatics

quote: What will any of the new unit packs include? like the dinosaur pack, WWII pack? <+Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS> Pescolo: Dinos has about 14 units, WWII has over 20, Medieval Japan over 20. 24 kings (which is really a unit set in themselves).

Yay lots of units for civ3, and good scenario makers around here could recreate the exact scenarios in ctp2 using the exact same units and everything

Anyway lots of units nether the less


Off topic:

quote: what has been added to the editor? <+Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS> there are a lot of new things in the editor: time line control, x/y map wrapping, operation range increase, debug mode, combining of wonder/small wonder abils, impassable terrain, support exemption for units, increased map size

So really stuff that shoud have been included in a small patch (oh no cause then there would be nothing to put in the addon)

	10-10-2002 23:15									#88
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14 dino units wow.

	11-10-2002 03:20									#89
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in the post about balloons,there are some to use in the directory under : /dir/dir/dir/../../action.php?sid=9...tion=go&id=1528


(hope that came out right)

Ballons would be a good addition to the game,as long as you remember that they're mostly for observation or transportation. I think it would be good if they were added much like boats are in the game -ie. start with a 2 movement + carry 1 unit,next step would be the same as a longship,then as a caravel,etc.-
Once up to the "Caravel" stage,they would gain the ability to 'bombard' units they fly over (range 0 )
With no armor,but only attackable by other air units

I looked at the file with the balloon,and tried to add it,BUT found that something is missing (or I went about it wrong )
I would appreciate it if someone with more experience at modding than I would take a look at the file and make any changes (if needed). *methinks the adds for the "Great Library' file are missing. but I'm a newbie soo... *

	11-10-2002 12:39									#90
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quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc This does the same for all intensive purposes it is a nuke the only difference is this baby cleans up after it self.

The difference (as I see it), between a Gaia bomb and a nuke, is that a nuke devastates a city, while a Gaia bomb eliminates a city.

If your opponent has 20 cities, and you stockpile 20 Gaia bombs, you could eliminate all trace of your opponent in one turn ! It is a great idea, I love it, it’s a triple-A idea (Absolutely Assured Annihilation ) – but I still think it’s too powerful. If you have these, you don’t need mobile troops anymore. Just my two cents.