04-08-2003 15:57									#571
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BTW, I think the game is almost over , because Assyrians got the Pyramids.
Kull, I think you should make their cost 500 (even for deity). They are almost 2x more effective because of the doubled food box size, and their asset lasts longer because celebrating in Republic don't come so early...

	05-08-2003 03:01									#572
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I am not very familiar with the scenario and I changed the Units.htm file so that units are ordered by unit type (like in AE-3500B - Units.rtf file). I attach it, maybe somebody else could consider it useful.

Please be patient, I am in middle of negotiations and I would like to move after them.

Attachment: units new.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	05-08-2003 03:20									#573
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About rules: I suppose it is not possible to negotiate unless you have a contact.(?)

quote: Originally posted by Kull but we've had no Barabarian Hordes show up so far - possibly because we're playing on Prince level

It looks as king...

quote: Originally posted by germanos You should report if you start a war with a civ, but the detail of reporting on battles is somewhat optional.

Must I report a war publicly or only to attacked civ?
Since we have not too much of units in the game I would prefer to introduce a rule that demands to report battles where attacker wins.

	07-08-2003 15:21									#574
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.

Attachment: bab_b3110.net
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	07-08-2003 23:16									#575
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Babylons new ruler has assured us that the last words of King CivFan were uttered during his last hours on his deathbed, and they should be disregarded.
In fact, many envoys have travelled between the two royal palaces to reassure good relations.

The Hatte appear to be swarming in and around Assyrian territory. They even popped a hut last turn in the hills of Nineveh! In the western desert they have completely ignored Assyrian requests to stop their push east to the warmongering Empire of CivFan. Oh well, our mobilized and freshly formed troops need something to do anyway

Attachment: assyria_b3110.net
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	09-08-2003 02:06									#576
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germanos, who are 'The Hatte' ?

	09-08-2003 03:47									#577
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Well, according to Chris62, Tanelorns predecessor, its the correct name for the Hittite.
I guess Hittite is the adjective for Hatte?

Anyway, the Hittite are on the way to you. They'll get there, eventually...

	09-08-2003 04:48									#578
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Do they appear agressive?

	09-08-2003 05:02									#579
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As the Hittite King, who formally calls himself king of the Hatte has just returned from a trip slightly off the western edge of the game-map, these issues will be adressed.

Assyrian friends, what is this;;; The only Assyrian town we came in contact with, peacefully was Harrada, a few months back, and we withdrew just as we were asked.

When Assyrian scouts appeared near Pteria, a town in central Hittite lands, they were welcome (check the thread, 16-7-2003, page 18).

How are we to know what you consider your territory, since your lands are unexplored? I can't see any Assyrian towns other than Harrada, certainly not Nineveh, cause it's all black to me.I consciously do not move towards the Tigris-Euphrates valey, where I guess your realm to be, but around it. Have you claimed a borderline between our nations, say this mountainrange or that river? I made a proposal waaay back, but it was not accepted.

Besides, suggest rules of conduct for my scouts and they'll be respected. Was that a threat, or just a figure of speech?

I had actually offered you my assistance against Civfan, although I am sure you don't need it. I intended this to be a good will move, Germanos.

Where our scouts encounter fortified units of yours, they stop and fortify themselves, as a rule. This is not a hostile move, on the contrary.

In thread pages 16-17 when comments were made about moving through Canaan, you did not make any statements of dissaprooval. You actualy wrote you "enjoyed picknicking with the Hatte", which I interpreted as a green light to move on freely. Its been months since that, why bring it up now?

So, what is this all about?????

Last edited by tanelorn on 09-08-2003 at 05:22

	09-08-2003 05:52									#580
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Do we look agressive? No, we haven't made any threats against another nation so far. We have claimed Asia Minor to be the sovereign lands of the Hittites, cause its where most of our cities happen to be located and haven't made any claims on any other lands.

Northern Canaan (coastal Syria west of the Orontes river) has been garisoned by Hittite units and uncontested for generations (game turns) so we consider it to be ours, for historical reasons aswell.

Assyrians, a consensus on our common border would be practical and would clear up any missunderstandings.

We have proven at least to you, that we keep our agreements to the letter. Remember the recent exchange affair. We could have breeched the terms of our deal and you had no way of knowing, unless we told you.

A Hittite is first and foremost a man of his word, however.

Babylonians, since you do not intend to perpetrate acts of agression yourself, our envoys approach you with honourable intentions and gifts of good will. May we meet soon.

	09-08-2003 12:40									#581
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quote: Originally posted by tanelorn As the Hittite King, ... When Assyrian scouts appeared near Pteria, a town in central Hittite lands, they were welcome ... How are we to know what you consider your territory, since your lands are unexplored? I can't see any Assyrian... cause it's all black to me... I made a proposal waaay back, but it was not accepted. ... Where our scouts encounter fortified units of yours, they stop and fortify themselves, as a rule. This is not a hostile move, on the contrary. ... moving through Canaan, you did not make any statements of dissaprooval. You actualy wrote you "enjoyed picknicking with the Hatte", which I interpreted as a green light to move on freely. Its been months since that, why bring it up now? ...

Dear Hatte King,

you are correct in all assumptions, although cultural differences between our nations probably make the difference.

[out of character] This is the first PBEM with a black map I play, so its all a bit new to me. I did indeed receive your proposal, and I have told you why I didn't accept.
I like the challange of the black map, with all the insecurity it holds. We are still very early in the game, and so no borders do yet exist. I think the borders still have to develop. Having a black map forces me to develop different strategies then I would do on a revealed map, and I am improvising as the game progresses. I will not elaborate too much on the issue, so that I won't rob the game of some of its spice. (is that a figure of speech in English? In Dutch it is ) I do think though that it is way to early in the game to establish firm borders with any empires, for the simple reason Assyria cannot enforce its rule over many areas. This however does not mean Assyria does regard some areas as Assyrian, and so it does tries to assert its influence over it. Whether this will be effictive or not remains to be seen. As for historical references, I do not give a penny for them, as we are making history here in the game.[/out of character]

Assyria is exploring the world, and indeed we have met Hittite scouts at several occations and various locations. So far the meetings have been satisfactonry, although there have been some quarrels, but that has to be expected. Both our people are looking for their best interests, and obviously they not always coincide.
The Assyrian nobilty respect their Hittite counterparts, but the assyrian people remain vigilant to protect their interests.

We both have made eachother offerings, and we both have had success with them, or met defiance. For instance on the issue of the Hittite scouts that are on their way to establish contact with Babylon, we have asked you to present your travel plans through the western desert, but to no avail. The aim for that is twofold: we will be able to keep the Hatte out of some areas (perhaps ), but at the same time, our vast knowledge of the Syrian desert could very well help speed up your progress and your scouts will not get stuck in the treacherous sand dunes .

As the Assyrian Empire is still expanding, the geopolitical situation is a fluent one, and to establish a status quo is not considerd in Assyrian interest. Furthermore does the rapid expension of the Assyrian empire hardly warrant for definite claims to Assyrian territory, as new lands are being added every decade. We can assure you though that Assyria does respect established Hatte territory, which is mainly defined by Assyrian scolars as Hatte cities radii. A cluster of cities could define a wider area.

We have good reasons for not sharing with you the full knowledge we have of the world, and since we have never received any maps made by your scolars, we assume you share the same view. We can very well keep you informed by the news posted in th thread, as we have done so.

quote: We have proven at least to you, that we keep our agreements to the letter. Remember the recent exchange affair. We could have breeched the terms of our deal and you had no way of knowing, unless we told you.

Boasting that you keep your word is hardly a virtue.


we would like to end this message by saying we do not threat the Hatte with force. None of the Hittite actions warrant such move. We merely state that Assyria is vigilant.

	09-08-2003 17:31									#582
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Back to PBEM rules:
Which kinds of interaction can I realize with Hittites although I have no contact with them?
I suppose it is not allowed to swap maps, techs etc.
But can we arrange an alliance, war against an opponent etc.? Can we share info about techs that we posses/develop, units moving?

Anyway I think that any contact (if allowed) should go through a public channel - i.e. this thread.

	09-08-2003 23:20									#583
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We also need a replacement for the Minoans, urgently. Being Cretan myself, it hurts me to see my island wasted on the AI...

Assyrians, it gladdens me to see we share the same oppinion in most matters, after all. That was a close one.

But of course, trust is such a rare commodity in PBEMs, when so many players idea of offensive strategy is simply making surprise attacks.

Last edited by tanelorn on 09-08-2003 at 23:31

	10-08-2003 02:52									#584
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quote: Originally posted by tanelorn We also need a replacement for the Minoans, urgently. Being Cretan myself, it hurts me to see my island wasted on the AI...

I have advertised it.

	10-08-2003 03:47									#585
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I can play the Minoans, untill at least the end of September.

	10-08-2003 05:45									#586
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I can also play the Minoans...until victory

	10-08-2003 11:05									#587
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker Back to PBEM rules: Which kinds of interaction can I realize with Hittites although I have no contact with them? I suppose it is not allowed to swap maps, techs etc. But can we arrange an alliance, war against an opponent etc.? Can we share info about techs that we posses/develop, units moving? Anyway I think that any contact (if allowed) should go through a public channel - i.e. this thread.

Why ask such a question when you give the answer yourself?
Obviously the Babylonians have no idea who, what or where the Hatte are, so how can they negotiate?

	10-08-2003 16:15									#588
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Why I ask? I suppose this was for me:

quote: Originally posted by tanelorn Babylonians, since you do not intend to perpetrate acts of agression yourself, our envoys approach you with honourable intentions and gifts of good will. May we meet soon.

I prefer a rule that forbid any kind of negotiations, but
there is a problem that we can always negotiate betwen the lines. For example, if I will post in this thread:
Assyrians, I hate you, if Hittites will attack you, I will help them.
then it is a signal sent to Hittites.

	10-08-2003 16:16									#589
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We should answer to EZRhino and La Fayette.
I wasn't here when Yop left, so I don't know if there is a chance he will come back. I think EZRhino is more appropriate for a replacement if Yop will come back, and La Fayette is better if Yop is off definitely...

	11-08-2003 01:29									#590
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Dude, the Hittites are as peaceful as ever, we keep our chariots for racing
They're scythed chariots, so what? We mow the loan!

	11-08-2003 16:53									#591
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tanelorn, so I am calm. I will try that trick with mowing too.

	12-08-2003 02:36									#592
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Techtree
Because I don't know the scenario very well, I added improvements, wonders and units to Kull's techtree. The file is in the MS Word format. It is not fully finished, also there may be errors (please warn about them)...
Unit stats are
Attack/Defense/HPxFP Movement Cost

Map Making
I should warn all that exchanging maps is possible only with a possession of Map Making. It is easy to miss it out - in past this happened between Babylon-Assyria and Persia-Assyria. Our kingdoms apologize.
I ask you to report other map exchanges that were realized in the past.

HutFinder
I have heard that HutFinder don't work here. But I am using Civ2Beakers (link in GL) and it works...

Cultures (probably for Kull)
I looked in the techtree: I noticed there are Egyptian (Automobile), Assyrian (Industrialization) and Persian (Invention) Culture in the techtree. I know Invention prevents techs from huts and lowers caravan delivery output, but what does Industrialization and Automobile do? Nethog's reference Pack says they only increase pollution.

Attachment: techtree.zip
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	12-08-2003 05:41									#593
	Map Making Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I just found out you need only a contact in MP games for swapping maps. So we should arrange a rule. I vote for Map Making because the way through the techtree is more interesting then.

Edit: Eeeh...but from other side if some of us exchanged maps already then others shoudn't be disavantaged...

	12-08-2003 11:30									#594
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker HutFinder I have heard that HutFinder don't work here. But I am using Civ2Beakers (link in GL) and it works... Cultures (probably for Kull) I looked in the techtree: I noticed there are Egyptian (Automobile), Assyrian (Industrialization) and Persian (Invention) Culture in the techtree. I know Invention prevents techs from huts and lowers caravan delivery output, but what does Industrialization and Automobile do? Nethog's reference Pack says they only increase pollution.

About Hutfinder: how could it not work? is it really the case??

About the Culture techs: Automobile, if I'm not mistaken, makes the population produce pollution (if pollution isn't disabled).
These 3 techs are used for the cultures because they define different city styles! (but maybe you knew that and just wanted to know the consequences it had on the various civ??)

	12-08-2003 17:41									#595
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quote: Originally posted by Cyrion About Hutfinder: how could it not work? is it really the case??

Ask germanos...

I didn't perceive that thing with city styles, thank you.

	12-08-2003 19:41									#596
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For Kull:

You are way overdue, dude


To Cyrion:
Hutfinder doesn't work on 'upgraded to MGE' Civ2, IIRC. In any case, it doesn't work for me.

Never mind though, I just scout the surroundings with my vast amount of scouts

	13-08-2003 02:02									#597
	HutFinder Remove this text

I think HutFinder must be independent on the Civ2 version. Or map coordinates are different with different versions?
Anyway I don't want an advantage concerning huts : the seed number is 1, then Civ2Beakers works.

	13-08-2003 02:27									#598
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So whats the verdict?

	13-08-2003 14:33									#599
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my deepest apologies guys.....will play tomorrow (it's 3 am, plane just got in.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

	14-08-2003 04:03									#600
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quote: Originally posted by EZRhino So whats the verdict?

Since Yop has disappeared and EZRhino claimed them first, normally he'd get the Minoans. However, if he can only play until the end of September, I'd prefer to give them to LaFayette since he's indicated he'll play permanently. Please clarify.