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SlowThinker
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homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
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Again - I would like to know if I can swap maps without Map Making? I know only the opinion of Assyrian leader now - he prefers to forbid it (so do I).
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germanos
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behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by EZRhino
So whats the verdict? |
I see Yop hasn't been around for over a month, and after a short visit to CFC a few weeks ago is still absent in all his games.
I vote for a permanent replacement.
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SlowThinker
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homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
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My proposition:
No map sharing until both civs have discovered the "Map Making" tech, no use of map coordinates for specifying localities on the map, areas and squares can be determined using words only (for example: about 10 squares south-east from Babylon). Distances cannot be expressed punctualy: only numbers 2, 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 ('about 2', 'about 5'...) may be used.
Coordinates may be used for determining boundaries only.
Comment: I know it looks rigid, but it is strict enough and you shoudn't be in doubt what is allowed and what is not.
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SlowThinker
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homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
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This is a proposition of house rules. Rules that are already in question are blue bold. Of course any rule can be the subject of debate.
Sentences are compiled from this thread, Rah and Aussie rules in MP forum etc.
General Settings
King, Barbarian wrath Game speed
There is now a 48 hour deadline. If you can't make it, post here, and we will undoubtedly give you some more time, if you have a good excuse. If you are late, expect your turn to have passed. Don't be shy to take your turn when the guy before you has not shown up in time.
After (or before) you do your turn try to send e-mail (or PM) to player(s) that play after you. Reloading
You can reload typos and similar mistakes ONLY under following conditions: | 1. | You can take back only 1 'action'. Action is | | | | a movement or another order to one unit | | | | rushbuild | | | | improvement sale | | 2. | You didn't intend to execute that action, you did it by mistake. | | 3. | The action cannot be taken back if ANY kind of new information is revealed by that action (new terrain is revealed, a new unit is detected, a formerly revealed square has changed (an irrigation is built on it, a foreign city has changed size etc.)...). | | 4. | You can NEVER take back fortuitous actions: combats, hut popping, tech stealing etc. | | 5. | You must correctly repeat all actions between the last save and the mistake that is taken back. The game cannot be reloaded if there is any fortuitous action (combat, hut popping, tech stealing etc.) among actions that are to be repeated (so it is suggested to save after combats, hut popping etc.). | Comment: Again it looks complicated, but it is precise. And with a strict 'no reloading' rule I would be a little bit nervous when playing. There have been written two opinions already:
germanos: Reloading when you made a 'movement typo' as you describe is tolerable IMO.
Kull: no reloading Getting info from saves
Revealing the starting map is legal, because a player that has already played all civs in SP games has the same info at his disposal.
Reloading/opening savefiles of passed turns in order to get some last information or to find out a detailed info about events that went between your two turns (for example who killed your unit) is legal, but you must be cautious in order to avoid the AI moves with units of other human players and reveals them to you:
In MP mode (Main Menu / Multiplayer Game / load a saved multiplayer game) you can open ONLY files that were saved right before your turn (by your predecessor) or by yourself.
It is possible to open a .net game also in SP mode (Main Menu / Load a game) - but you have to change the default .sav option to .net. In this case you can open also save, other than the save from the civ that directly precedes yours: you will go to your own civ (as chosen) but since its not your turn, you will not be able to move any of your units. The player is nothing more than a bystander/onlooker. Reports
Players are not obligated to report anything about a course of player's turn. But things that would cause an international incident in a SP game can be accomplished only under war. War can be declared both privately (by e-mail) or publicly (in this thread).
So if your unit or city dissapears you will know that the originator is one of civs you are in a war with. (Still I would prefer introduce a rule that demands to report these events, at least battles where attacker wins etc. Also because we have not too much of units in the game.)
Diplomacy Diplomacy can be managed both privately (by e-mail) or publicly (in this thread).
All diplomatic arrangements (alliances, tech, unit, gold, city trading, trade agreements = to allow caravans to be delivered etc.) are allowed, but any agreements can be broken when advantageous (unlike barters) .
Contact: No diplomacy until after the first physical unit contact between two civs. (But players are allowed to publicly declare their progress on the thread.)
Map making: under construction, see thread | Barters are allowed (using Yaroslav's utility, built-in Civ2 diplomacy, online play, exchanging map screenshots or any other way) except: | | | wonder trading (you cannot pass a city with a wonder) | | | obtained commodity caravans must not be delivered (they may be used only for wonder building); food caravans are OK) | | | map exchanging without possession of Map Making by both civs (see supra). | | Barters cannot be broken or crooked (unlike arrangements). For example if you agree on exchanging map screenshots then you cannot refuse to send your map after you get the opponent's one. Also the screenshot must be true (but you can blacken some areas - if you announce it). | Diplomatic contact with AI is forbidden. You may never initiate a contact and you must always refuse all diplomatic contact with other civilization (when you play your turn) UNLESS you will do something you and the human leader of that civ have agreed to.
A question: what if one of civs will be controlled by AI for long time?
Tricks and ploys Not allowed: black clicking
(1. Right click on black area - reveals continent number - try not to look at that small numeral in the status window that represents the continent number.
2. Double click on revealed area - reveals cities (terrain help is not shown on a city) - don't double click in unknown areas
3. Left click on black or revealed area - reveals cities (map is not centered on a city) - center map by the right click only)
unsinkable boats and non-crashing aircraft
(this is done by just moving your boat/craft 1 less space than its available movement and pressing Wait followed by using the End turn keyboard shortcut)
caravan re-homing
(unlike normal units you cannot hit the 'h' key to change the home of a caravan - however the 'support from this city' option is available from within the city screen. This way it is possible to build caravans in small cities and to rehome them to large ones.)
stealing shields and immediate tech use
(The priciple resides in clicking on units in the window of supported units when Civ2 shows a city where an improvement or a non-combat unit was built:
Suppose you have several cities close to one another. If you have all units stationed in these cities hosted by the first of which (in establishing sequence), maybe you can save the maintainance shields for them by re-host units while processing cities. Here's a demonstration. You have 3 cities A B C, in which A is your first city. All of your units in cities B and C are hosted by A. You rush build non-military units or buildings in B and C so that at the beginning of the next turn you'll be sent to city screens of B and C. While in city screens, you re-host units inside cities to B and C, respectively. Since B and C are processed before A, you save the maintainance shields for those units. You then move units in B and C back to A and re-host them before moving back, so that you can save again the next turn.
Use of this trick to produce wonders, improvements and units in the same turn as discovering the requisite tech is also disallowed.)
renaming cities
blatant cheats
(revealing the map through the cheat menu, editing stats in rules.txt, reloading hut and combat outcomes, cheat-o-matic (this is a tsr that allows the game parameters to be changed on the fly while the game is running.) etc.),
Allowed: city bribing
unit bribing
incremental buying
pre-worked settlers
automated settlers (to irrigate with no adjacent water}
food caravans (any use is allowed (except rehoming))
ship chaining (transfer cargo from ship to ship in 1 turn)
diplo-guiding (using a diplomat or spy (or other unit that ignores ZOC) to lead other units through an enemy's zones of control.)
reading 'near city' notes (to use 'near city XX' notes in a city window to locate unknown cities)
If you break a rule by a mistake nothing horrible happens. But you should announce it and warn other players. Edit: phrasing only
Last edited by SlowThinker on 20-08-2003 at 16:41
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SlowThinker
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homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
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La Fayette, you are a fully-fledged player and so you are asked to express your opinion to rules. 
Last edited by SlowThinker on 20-08-2003 at 00:46
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SlowThinker
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homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
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I edited 'Getting info from saves': of course you can load also your own saves.
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germanos
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behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:22
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Welcome aboard LaFayette 
It's your turn now, as the minoans move after the Greeks.
Since Yop is still very absent in all of his games, Assyria now considers you as the rightfull ruler of Minos. 
Re: rules
On the loading of saves:
There is the possibility of loading saves, other then the save from the civ that directly precedes yours, without the AI moving units of other players.
In this case, you do NOT choose the 'Multiplayer Game' option from the startup menu, but you choose directly the 'load a game' option (as opposed to the 'load a saved multiplayer game').
To load the .net game, you simply change the default .sav option to .net, and the game will be loaded up as a normal save game.
Note that in this case, you will go to your own civ (as chosen) but since its not your turn, you will not be able to move any of your units. The player is nothing more then a bystander/onlooker.
During some events (like battles or so) people might want to know what exactly had happened on the battlefield, and I tend to allow such information gathering, especially since players will have an option to anticipate what to do when their turn will be up, and thus it could save time, and keep the game moving at speed.
Please share your thoughts on this,
germanos
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La Fayette
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albi, france
Oct 2000
time: 06:22
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Hello
I have just had a look at the save sent by steve.
Here is my problem:
Anything (units, advancements, improvements,...) looks like civ2 'vanilla'. Nothing corresponds to the scenario 'Seeds of Greatness'.
Of course I haven't played.
Could someone explain what happened and tell me what to do ?
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germanos
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behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:22
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LaFayette: what Cyrion said.
You can download the scenario from the link that is in the first post of this thread.
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SlowThinker
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homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
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I can only agree with germanos. I reworked the paragraph.
So that means you can find out who killed your unit ...
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14-08-2003 04:48
Attachment: 
Attachment: 
The effect of the screenshots is very similar to the standard map exchange and so the significance of research of map making would be very low again.
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