25-09-2004 04:15									#1351
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Straybow, could you e-mail me your collection of smilies?

	25-09-2004 06:22									#1352
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quote: Originally posted by germanos This game is more or less the last one running at Apolython, and I would surely hate to see this forum die.

Why there is no people playing PBEM at Poly and CivFanatics? I noticed many threads in opereation at http://cdgroup.org/ - did people move there or was cdgroup.org always so busy?

	25-09-2004 06:34									#1353
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

While you are correct about the Forum being largely dead, there are surely still several games ongoing?

My current PBEM Game involves two of the Players from your game (La Fayette and kengel) and 4 other players (in addition to myself, DaveV, Carolus Rex, Mostly Harmless and Eddy) who are all registered at Apolyton, they just don't post often (and use the thread of our game even less). While our game has slowed to a crawl (your game would be considered fast by our standards ) it does still have interest and I look forward to playing it for several years to come (I have been a part of it for several years now).

I think the low number of players have gotten used to using alternate forms of communication for their PBEM Games (email, instant messaging, PM's) and thus posting to a forum isn't always necessary.

Having said that it would be a true shame to see this forum die as I enjoy reading about the ongoing games, even while not playing in them.

* Sparrowhawk

	25-09-2004 13:29									#1354
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Over the last year or so activity in this forum has dropped to allmost nill.

I do think many players went over to the cdgroup and left the forums here. I don't know why though.


I concur with Sparrowhawk: it's fun to read other games/threads, and it is a pity to see so many threads die.



As far as the wonder is conceirned: I will not veto any hexediting, so if you guys feel such a thing should be unanimous decided, lets just say I abstain from a vote in favor of it

	25-09-2004 19:37									#1355
	OK, matter not settled quite yet Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

OK, Germanos. I had whined to my ally La Fayette, and also lamented to kengel but they should respond here in the thread. If we get timely replies from Stefan and Kull before my 2900 turn fine, otherwise the matter is closed.

I'm not holding my breath.

Heh, heh, my Smilies folder is 382k 114 gifs. Some I very rarely use but gotta have, just in case. I recently added about 2 dozen from http://mazeguy.net/ and other sited linked from there, one with an even larger collection.

* Straybow checks site links…

Ah, the big site is http://www.smilys.net/

Years ago I got bunches from smilies.org (which no longer has any smilies ) http://www.clicksmilies.com/ (they were under renovations for a while, now back online) and http://mysmilies.com/ (also was long offline and now back in business).

Then of course there are some I don't know where I picked up (see below). The banner add on my free Opera is presently hawking http://www.smileycentral.com and http://www.freesmileys.org. I'd check them out but I hafta go sleepy now.

Attachment: clippydeath.gif
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	25-09-2004 20:41									#1356
	Re: OK, matter not settled quite yet Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Straybow OK, Germanos. I had whined to my ally La Fayette, and also lamented to kengel but they should respond here in the thread. If we get timely replies from Stefan and Kull before my 2900 turn fine, otherwise the matter is closed.

I'd go along with a hex-edit fix, but also propose that we impose a one-turn limit on problem fixes such as this. Historically, rulers who weren't paying attention to critical aspects of their civilization tended to suffer serious consequences as a result, so why should this simulation be any different?

	25-09-2004 20:49									#1357
	Re: Re: OK, matter not settled quite yet Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Kull I'd go along with a hex-edit fix, but also propose that we impose a one-turn limit on problem fixes such as this. Historically, rulers who weren't paying attention to critical aspects of their civilization tended to suffer serious consequences as a result, so why should this simulation be any different?

My idea exactly .

Oh, and I DO insist the whole process will NOT slow down the game.

	25-09-2004 20:51									#1358
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

PS: my mail to Stephan has bounced

	25-09-2004 21:39									#1359
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Straybow's case induces a question about our rules. We could make this point clear. I think we could express our behaviour by a following way:

New rule

quote: You have a right to ask for a rectification if AI messes your civ (by replay or other method). But you must claim it immediately within your next turn. Exception to a rule is possible but no player may disagree ( notice I do not write 'all must agree': it is sometimes hard to extort an opinion (or a turn here).

Straybow
I understand germanos' philosophy that Straybow should live with the fact of lost shields, because rules should be simple and without exceptions. On other side if I empathize with Straybow I understand 60 lost shields must really annoy. I don't want disgusted players here (an exception: frustration after Babylonian troops take your capitals).

quote: Originally posted by germanos As far as the wonder is conceirned: I will not veto any hexediting...

I am interested if the scenario menu thing would work. It could be a useful tool if somebody whines about corrupted civ and 6 players must replay.
BTW the method cannot be used for cheating because any use of the method is visible: next turn players are alerted about their 'starting' techs.

bulletin board
If anybody objects to regeneration of Straybow's shields by hexediting post it before start of 2890BC pls.

	25-09-2004 21:42									#1360
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Sorry, I didn't read your new posts. I write offline then post...

It looks in principle I agree with you except...

quote: Originally posted by Straybow If we get timely replies from Stefan and Kull before my 2900 turn fine, otherwise the matter is closed.

As I explained IMHO a no-objection should be sufficient (with a longer period of waiting).

	25-09-2004 22:32									#1361
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I must point out that there are two excellent programs (LazyCiv and CivDip) available that will restore production that is screwed up by the AI. I therefore see NO reason to add your proposed rule.
IMO, in this case it is a courtesy that is granted, but surely not something that should be a 'right' that can be 'claimed'.

The F11/demographics issue is a little different, but all of us are aware not to use this feature. Since in that case no other means exist to restore the game-malfunction, hexediting or replaying seems only a fair thing to do.

	26-09-2004 06:53									#1362
	No new rule Get a bigger avatar today!

Yeah, this is just a "help the dufus fix his screw-up" thing.

Looking back I see that the turn was in the midst of my spywear struggles. Every time I tried to d/l Ad-Aware my connection would lock up. Quite worrisome. Made me paranoid that I had an anti-anti-spywear spywear.


Two days after getting La Fayette's save I must've hurriedly loaded and played the turn without thinking about the Civ2Dip fix. I recall that they changed my schedule to work the 3pm Sunday shift, which I found out when I arrived for my Saturday 11pm-7am shift. Anyway that would wipe me out from play time after my day job on Monday and before my regular night shift at 11:00 pm. So the few hours between church and that 3pm shift I needed to do something to stay awake.

And it was nearly a full month since germanos' Wonder-stealing-building turn.

	26-09-2004 11:27									#1363
	Remove this text

Hehe




Happy birthday Stephan

	26-09-2004 16:42									#1364
	rules Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by germanos I must point out that there are two excellent programs (LazyCiv and CivDip) available that will restore production that is screwed up by the AI. I therefore see NO reason to add your proposed rule.

I do not understand why the rule shouldn't be added:
The rule allows you to claim a rectifications in following situations:
1) the F11 problem; up to this point a fix was a question of courtesy, and I have a feeling that you agree with me that it should be guaranteed
2) changed production or government: the permission to use LazyCiv or CivDip is not included in rules yet
3) other possible problems caused by the AI - I don't know if they exist, but I see no reason why not to guarantee reparation of ANY mess caused by AI (except those where player himself is culpable for the mess (forgot Ctrl-N)): for example workers may be relocated also without Demographics window(?}

quote: IMO, in this case it is a courtesy that is granted, but surely not something that should be a 'right' that can be 'claimed'.

IMO my rule agrees perfectly:
Exception to a rule is possible but no player may disagree ( notice I do not write 'all must agree': it is sometimes hard to extort an opinion (or a turn here).

	26-09-2004 18:29									#1365
	Got spare money?

ad 1) AFAIK the use of F11 itself is forbidden by the rules we set out.

ad 2) Well, if you insist on adding a new rule, lets add the use of these programs then.

ad 3) I think it is more usefull to tackle unexpected events when they actually occur.

and ad 4): I principally oppose the idea that when we will put the rules aside for whatever reason, merely an absantee to vote is enough to give the proposal a 'go ahead'. In fact this invalidates the very idea of rules.

	26-09-2004 19:05									#1366
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The use of F11 was forbidden, but it happened (and La Fayette swore he didn't look at Demographics window, so it could be caused by another reason. So I suggest to speak about 'replaced workers').

quote: and ad 4): I principally oppose the idea that when we will put the rules aside for whatever reason, merely an absantee to vote is enough to give the proposal a 'go ahead'. In fact this invalidates the very idea of rules.

Hm, a good point. It looks I thought rather about Straybow's case (i.e. situations that were not clearly solved by rules).

	26-09-2004 19:17									#1367
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I fully expect anybody to have his game screwed up for whatever reason to yell and shout and swear THE MOMENT HE OPENES HIS SAVE.

As happened before, I think a reasonable solution will be worked out among us.

I really see no reason to add the rule you posted.
I think it will only cause trouble. The game is slow as it is, and going back turns is a bore (albeit sometimes necessary).

I guess the bottom line for me is:
Stay focussed guys (and watch your back )

	26-09-2004 20:24									#1368
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Thank Straybow our thread is living again

germanos, as I mentioned before, I agree with you: the rule is far from perfect. I also agree that

quote: going back turns is a bore (albeit sometimes necessary).

but IMO it should be clear when it is necessary/expected and when it is not.

New rules - 2nd suggestion

quote: You have a right to ask for a rectification if AI messes your civ in following situations: 1) change of a shield production or a government may be corrected by LazyCiv or CivDip. 2) replaced workers (caused by the Demographics window or other reason) may be corrected by replay (or scenario mode - but it looks this won't be accepted (?)). But you must claim it immediately within your next turn, otherwise your right expires. An exception to any rule is possible only if every player posts his agreement. Suggestions how to handle situations that are not clearly solved by existing rules and suggestions of new rules are accepted if no player disagree within a resonable amount of time (everybody should post or two turns of inactive players should pass).

quote: Originally posted by germanos and watch your back

I am afraid it is clear I want to restore Straybow's production since otherwise his invasive armies wouldn't be completed in time and so synchronized with my ones. At least the target civ stays unrevealed.

	26-09-2004 20:32									#1369
	Remove this text

new rules edited

	27-09-2004 10:48									#1370
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: I am afraid it is clear I want to restore Straybow's production since otherwise his invasive armies wouldn't be completed in time and so synchronized with my ones. At least the target civ stays unrevealed.

Yes, I'm building the Pinky and the Brain WoW.

	29-09-2004 12:14									#1371
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by diegoami Hittites first turn

 

This game was kicked off two tears ago.

Thanks all for keeping this alive.
Special thanks to Sparrowhawk for his good work.





And now to Stephan: stick to your words and play.

(Sparrowhawk...)

	29-09-2004 22:56									#1372
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Contol N done for Persia.

Onward to kengel.

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	30-09-2004 03:46									#1373
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Alas... I think Stefan has had his chance

Greek pioneers has now reached the border of the known world, surprized to find fruitful land over the ocean to the south, and far into the barbarian woods in the east. Though after long periods of starving too less greeks are left to colonize any other land than their own, it is fascinating to see how big the world is...

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	03-10-2004 03:10									#1374
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Somebody downloaded this game before I did (I suspect La Fayette) so he may yet post his save, but just in case he doesn't and in the hopes of being pro-active, I did the Control N thing for the Minoans.

Hopefully La Fayette is able to post his save before Straybow has the opportunity to play.

* Sparrowhawk

Attachment: pbem_bc_2910_to_hittite.net
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	03-10-2004 04:07									#1375
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thx Sparrowhawk.
Straybow's time starts, La Fayette has last chance to be faster than Straybow.

	03-10-2004 04:58									#1376
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I PLAY WITHIN 24H

	05-10-2004 08:31									#1377
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette I PLAY WITHIN 24H

Then again...maybe not??

	05-10-2004 14:52									#1378
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

definitely not


I'm also pretty worried that Stephan has not shown up yet. He has for ages been the slowest/most absent participant, but this is stretching it. If he fails to meet his next turn, I think we should start looking for a replacement.

	06-10-2004 03:19									#1379
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Please, Stray...
play now.
I have had technical problems once more and I am fed up.

	06-10-2004 05:36									#1380
	Support Apolyton

Your wish, my Ally, is my command!

Mursilis II wishes to welcome the new ruler of Assyria. A band of Hatta Swordsmen have been trying to return home for what seems like many generations. Your new seaport Ish-Mandarun and various troops in the hills prevent them from moving.

Please suffer them to forage in the outskirts of the farmed valleys and, as time and your desired troop movements permit, pass around Ish-Mandarun to the East and thence Northwest across the treaty river.

Attachment: hittites_b2900.net
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