08-09-2002 20:43									#1
	Do we continue war with Persia Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

This is a fairly straightforward question. Do we continue the war with persia or make peace. I know a similar poll exist, but I wanted to do this to see if any views had changed with the current situation.
Aggie

Last edited by Aggie on 08-09-2002 at 21:32

	08-09-2002 20:52									#2
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I know thats a lot of archers but we have to strenghten our position against them now or we'll be at their mercy later.

Personally, I think Tyre, Sidon, and Gordium. Gordium's the key, with it we force them to defend FOUR cities from us, as we have our teeth clasped around their proverbial throat. At that point they shouldn't be able to succesfully threaten us again.

Currently they can ALWAYS sneak attack us with troops as their cities are just too close to ours. They can steal a dye with a higher culture rating and reduce the workable tiles of Geofront and Ubergorsk. They can take Ubergorsk's iron. They NEED to be pruned back while we are in the position to do so.

	08-09-2002 20:53									#3
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Aggie,
Nearly everyone supports the taking of Tyre and Sidon, and then some support going further. Talking to Togas, we decided to continue fighting until we had taken those cities and could get a tech (since there was overwhelming support for going at least that far), and then to come back to the people and discuss it some more. Having said that, I do support the continued discussion on this topic, and want to see how this poll turns out.

I should probably PM you on this so we can chat for a bit about it since I'll be running things at the Foreign Ministry for the next week... I'll do that later, though, since I'm running low on time now.

-- adaMada

	08-09-2002 21:21									#4
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i agree with the overall idea Ghengis. I just want the a poll to confirm we continue. I plan on doing this after every stage. I'm just trying to figure out how to save geofront. We can get the other spear(from napolitan) there in time. They will have 2 units damage or destoyed when they attack sword. That leaves 5 archers vs defenders of geofront. We could knock one out with horse and take out another one with sword. We upgrade spear to pike this turn(in uber) use pikeman to cover them. We most likely end up with a 3 archer army that would be unable to attack. So we can save geofront. But i figure if we continue the war we will lose 1sword and one spear at least. before we assault tyre. Now unfortunately the warriors weren't sent from seeberg to upgrade as early as i desired so they are a few turns from getting upgraded at uber(otherwise we could just go into tyre after battle). Still they should be there to take sidon. My recommendation is continue the war.
Aggie

	08-09-2002 21:43									#5
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War is generally a good thing.

	08-09-2002 22:00									#6
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If we can win (and I see no reason why we can't) then they should be made to pay for violating the RoP.

	08-09-2002 22:21									#7
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Eh, that seems like a fairly imposing Archer stack near Geofront. It looks like they are now finally sending their main troops toward us.

If the odds are in favor of our defense, then by all means continue the war so we at least capture/destroy those cities, however I feel that any "gains" we make will be expensive, both in terms of replacing units lost and replacing infastructure that has been destroyed.

	09-09-2002 10:33									#8
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After seeing the updated map of uber island, I have to change my vote. We need to focus on that island, Persia is just a distraction at this time.

So I basically say that we only continue with the war if we can be successful in the war and still build and ship 4 more settlers to that island as well as keep enough lytons to rush build whatever else we need on the island.

I do however, think we should remember the treachery of the persians and after we secure our current position resume operation kick persian ass.

	09-09-2002 10:43									#9
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I'd say end the war now, build up our cities and forces and take them all later....

	09-09-2002 12:03									#10
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Can we still strike before they have Immortals ?

	09-09-2002 12:09									#11
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I belive the legendary Uber said it before: "We must not loose focus".

Being a builder, my confidence in war is easily swayed (like seeing huge stacks of Persian Archers), however, with our new Pikemen and the upgraded WF, I believe we can remain steadfast in the line of fire. This is the brunt of the Persian Army and when we defeat this offensive, we will see little resistance comming our way. Attack now, destroy Persia, take the Pyramids spice and Incense and remove our eastern border!

	09-09-2002 12:39									#12
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...and, do they offer us anything for peace?

	09-09-2002 14:11									#13
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I think the best we can do at the moment is to make peace with the Persians, then send a settler to the Iron between Coventry and Antiich or as close as possible, and make a city to get control of it. Then send 5, 6 or 7 setllers to Uber Island and take control of all of it before anybody else can get over there.

	09-09-2002 20:15									#14
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This is basic stuff. The AI sends in there millitary we wipe them out and then we march into their territory and take their cities unopposed.

The archers don't stand a chance. Of course we should play it safe but a vet pikeman fortified in a walled town against a reg archer is a joke something like a 4.6% that the archer wins.

Yes continue the war. Get our troops ready while the Persians throw theirs away and then start the counter offensive.

	09-09-2002 20:28									#15
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Just to clarify my change in opinion had nothing to do with any archers. The island is just too big to not concentrate on. Fully settling and developing it asap will do more for us than fully conquering persia IMO. (we'd need to build the forbidden palace in persia to make it productive)

Also, Im not too worried about when/if they get immortals at this point. By the time they do, we'll have musketmen to defend (unless the banana has cursed us with no saltpeter) and knights to attack.

I'm not 100% against continuing the war though IF we can do it and still give Uber Island all the attention it'd get otherwise. If we have to make a choice though, Id definately go with the chance to greatly increase our core of productive cities in an easily defendable position.

	09-09-2002 20:36									#16
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Why is it called "Uber Island"?

	09-09-2002 20:38									#17
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Just to clarify my opinion aswell.

I am very much pro this war in the understanding that it does not seriously require the production of our more important cities.

Although the persian land is plentlyful I do not support any kind of mobilzation for war i.e. most of our cities producing units for this war.

	09-09-2002 20:43									#18
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quote: Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar= Why is it called "Uber Island"?

Someone named it after himself.

	09-09-2002 20:54									#19
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quote: Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar= Why is it called "Uber Island"?

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Someone named it after himself.

"Someone" knowed as the King of Warmongers.
Our (former?) SMC, UberKruX. The SMC now is Aggie.

	09-09-2002 21:01									#20
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SO what's the rule? Whoever sees something first gets to name it?

	09-09-2002 21:07									#21
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There's a criteria, but I can't find the thread right now. I'll try some research later, but you probably can find this info (or a link) in the directory thread .

	09-09-2002 21:28									#22
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Continue for now. Keep situation under review. Peace at most opportune moment, post-capture of T&S

	09-09-2002 21:43									#23
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I agree with GhengisFarb, we can't risk losing our resources!

	09-09-2002 22:38									#24
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quote: Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar= SO what's the rule? Whoever sees something first gets to name it?

Actually, he "sighted" it as early as 2000 BC or thereabouts (whenever Apolyton's cultural radius expanded a second time). He saw a whale and more coast, and deduced that there had to be a landmass there. The name "Uber Isle" stuck, for some reason (probably because no one else had any ideas).

He also was the first to determine the location of the Americans (before we made contact with them-- he somehow managed to see their borders).

Oh, and keep on fighting until we get Tyre and raze Sidon. Gordium would also be nice, since it puts us within striking distance of Persepolis.

	09-09-2002 22:51									#25
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quote: Although the persian land is plentlyful I do not support any kind of mobilzation for war i.e. most of our cities producing units for this war.

Well said OPD, I support the war as well if we can fight it with what we have and use our production for colonization and development. If its going to require us to mass produce a bunch more units to win or replace our losses, then we have better things to do for the next 20-30 turns.

	09-09-2002 23:33									#26
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i say fight the war and split up production between uber island support/infra homeland and war units! but stop after sidon, tyre and maybe Gordium IF it doesnt take to long!

-no one benifits from prolonged war- Sun Tzu

	10-09-2002 01:04									#27
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quote: i say fight the war and split up production between uber island support/infra homeland and war units!

Heh keep in mind that persia will still be there until someone else conquers them, but Uber Island is only exclusively ours until someone develops astronomy and caravels EDIT: Or builds the lighthouse, but I have no idea who is building it or has built it

	10-09-2002 01:11									#28
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We can colonize it still and IF we can take the 3 cities within 8-10 turns (is that long not keeping any civIII game myself so ) i am all for the war if not get the hell out and colonize Uber island with 3 more settlers from the main land!


btw the second rank cities can build units for war and the big cities like apolyton and stuff can build caravels/settlersstacks/workers

	10-09-2002 03:18									#29
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*mutter* just noticed from the war academy post that America signed an alliance with Germany against the aztecs. Im not sure how I missed it from the chat summary

That definately changes things. If we fight persia, we most probally will be seeing aztecs in our fragrant valley. That certainely won't do.

We should make peace with Persia asap.
Send our existing military to mop up the americans in as rapid a campaign as possible.
And let our core cities concentrate on Uber Island.

	10-09-2002 03:23									#30
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Right now, I don't think that we should declare peace with Persia... I posted the Aztec thread, but I'm not sure they're a huge threat. I think most people will come back and say that they'll be preoccupied with the Greeks closing in from the East and the Germans attacking from the south. In that case, they probably won't have much military to spare, even with America being as weak as it is.

Furthermore, I think we could probably handle both wars at once (as long as we're just talking about America) if we kept the Persian war going, attacked America, and then came back and finished the Persians, though that's another thing I'm hoping the Military Academy thread will answer.

-- adaMada

Edit: Don't worry about missing it too much; I probably would have too, except I asked the people at the chat what had happened and it's my job to look for things like that (for the next week, anyway ).