10-09-2002 06:25									#31
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you are catholic Jimmy?

they are the only ones to have the blood andwine thing that I know of

Jn Miller

	10-09-2002 06:29									#32
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Ethel, please. You can mock me by personal message. Have a little respect.

	10-09-2002 06:31									#33
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I agree

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 06:31									#34
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Gosh, no, I am not Catholic. Jon, the blood of Christ is pretty central to Protestant religions and not just in a ritualistic manner.

	10-09-2002 06:38									#35
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I have never heard of it

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 06:41									#36
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outside of catholicism

maybe you can explain more?

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 06:41									#37
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Some christians don't like talking about christianity that much, outside of christian circles. Some christians don't like to wear their religion on their sleeve. Some christians are able to find a way to reconcile religion, spirituality and hope with modern day scientific and social constructs.
That said a couple of points.
"to be saved from eternal seperation from God!"
To reference "God" as "a greater spirit" as I think of it (not him, how can a higher being have a gender?), I do not believe that we can ever be truly SEPERATED be spirituality. We can only choose to ignore and not explore.
"the blood of Christ is pretty central to Protestant religions"
As a semi-congregationalist I have no bloody idea what you're talking about…

	10-09-2002 06:47									#38
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there's a few out there i suppose. lincoln comes to mind, CyberShy as well. . .

	10-09-2002 06:47									#39
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I am Christian

	10-09-2002 07:10									#40
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I just got back from a Knight of Columbus information thing tonight. I join Thursday.

	10-09-2002 07:21									#41
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I'm an ex-Christian, turned Deist.

As much as I refuse to rule out the existance of a god, or higher power, I also refuse to submit to any revealed religion.

	10-09-2002 07:26									#42
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quote: Some christians don't like to wear their religion on their sleeve

Can't help but wonder what Jesus would say about that!

	10-09-2002 07:26									#43
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Jon,

First of all, to understand the concept of the blood of Christ you have to open your mind to the possibility that God is real and not a concept.

The blood sacrifice of Christ was God's gift to mankind. It is very simple. Mankind, created in God's image, turned away from God's will. This is sin. God is unable to abide sin. Only a blood sacrifice is sufficient to wash sin away and allow fellowship with God. All men are by nature sinful. Therefore a void exists between God and man that cannot be bridged. But, God sent Jesus to us to be the necessary sacrifice. His death on the cross, His blood, and our faith in it "saves" us and restores us to God. This is God's grace.

Now, of course, none of that makes any sort of rational sense nor is it logical. I nonetheless believe. The path to belief, to faith, is to open your mind and let the Holy Spirit do His work.

I mocked it all for years. People tell of being "saved". Of a moment in time when they were converted. Born again. I just realized that I believed it was true and real and having a feeling of peace and joy.

Since, I have sinned horribly again and again but I still have total faith in the blood of Christ and the grace and mercy of God.

I consider the ritual of communion to be widely practiced as mockery of God by people who pay lip service to a God that they do not believe in except as a concept.

And of course my beliefs are mocked by people who do not believe in God at all. And I was once one of them. Irony?

I do not get hung up on trying to reconcile all of the controversies of religion, the Bible, and the logic of science. I simply believe that God is real, God forgives and that He loves us all.

jt

	10-09-2002 07:50									#44
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Jimmy jimmy



What if god hates bores?

I suspect he does?

	10-09-2002 07:52									#45
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Jon, First of all, to understand the concept of the blood of Christ you have to open your mind to the possibility that God is real and not a concept. The blood sacrifice of Christ was God's gift to mankind. It is very simple. Mankind, created in God's image, turned away from God's will. This is sin. God is unable to abide sin. Only a blood sacrifice is sufficient to wash sin away and allow fellowship with God. All men are by nature sinful. Therefore a void exists between God and man that cannot be bridged. But, God sent Jesus to us to be the necessary sacrifice. His death on the cross, His blood, and our faith in it "saves" us and restores us to God. This is God's grace. Now, of course, none of that makes any sort of rational sense nor is it logical. I nonetheless believe. The path to belief, to faith, is to open your mind and let the Holy Spirit do His work. I mocked it all for years. People tell of being "saved". Of a moment in time when they were converted. Born again. I just realized that I believed it was true and real and having a feeling of peace and joy. Since, I have sinned horribly again and again but I still have total faith in the blood of Christ and the grace and mercy of God. I consider the ritual of communion to be widely practiced as mockery of God by people who pay lip service to a God that they do not believe in except as a concept. And of course my beliefs are mocked by people who do not believe in God at all. And I was once one of them. Irony? I do not get hung up on trying to reconcile all of the controversies of religion, the Bible, and the logic of science. I simply believe that God is real, God forgives and that He loves us all. jt

I beleive in God and I beleive in Christ's death on the cross for me

I agree with most of what you say

but wtill did not understand to what you were refering (I thought you were refering to the catholic practice)

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 07:55									#46
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Hmmm, my hypocrisy radar sounded an alert this evening. And now I know why.

jimmytrick, did you explain that the blood of Christ atones for the sins of those who repent? Or is it that repentance is an act with which you have little experience so it didn't occur to you to mention it?

	10-09-2002 07:56									#47
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* Asher shrieks

	10-09-2002 07:57									#48
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Salvation is a free gift to everyone

it is up to them if they accept it

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 07:59									#49
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I'm of Daoist philosophy. It doesn't bind your hands to any edicts or commandments, only shines a little light upon the path you walk, advising you to go "the water course way."

	10-09-2002 08:02									#50
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I'm a non-conformist Christian, in that I do not need any institution or preachers to tell me HOW to believe in God and Jesus Christ.

For instance, with Jesu's "miracles" -- I believe that he used chakra techniques when he successfully healed people.

	10-09-2002 08:03									#51
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Why?

Or do you doubt the power of God?

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 08:05									#52
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I find it amazing so many people in the world have so many different faiths and every single one of them honestly believes they're picking the right one.

	10-09-2002 08:08									#53
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I am not trying to put you down Mr. Fun

I just do not see why if you beleive there is a God, that you have issues with beleiving in 'Miracles'

(personally I think that maybe a sceintific explanation exists for them, but I do not try to limit God (if he wants no 'sceintific reason' for them than I see no reason why there needs to be a 'sceintific reason')

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 08:09									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I find it amazing so many people in the world have so many different faiths and every single one of them honestly believes they're picking the right one.

I find it amazing that those who have faith in no god honestly beleives that they are right

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 08:09									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Asher * Asher shrieks

Damn you, I thought that was a link!

Although damnation must not concern ye too much...

	10-09-2002 08:10									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I am not trying to put you down Mr. Fun I just do not see why if you beleive there is a God, that you have issues with beleiving in 'Miracles' (personally I think that maybe a sceintific explanation exists for them, but I do not try to limit God (if he wants no 'sceintific reason' for them than I see no reason why there needs to be a 'sceintific reason') Jon Miller

Where did you get the assumption I was offended?
Since there was no offensive remark from you.

Well then, to further boggle your mind, I'm a non-conformist Christian who does not believe in the spiritual symbolism of heaven or hell, yet I believe in Jesus Christ and God.

	10-09-2002 08:12									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller (personally I think that maybe a sceintific explanation exists for them, but I do not try to limit God (if he wants no 'sceintific reason' for them than I see no reason why there needs to be a 'sceintific reason')

"If a well-respected Scientist says that something is impossible, he is almost certainly wrong. If the same man claims that something is possible, he is almost certainly right."--Arthur C. Clarke

	10-09-2002 08:12									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I find it amazing that those who have faith in no god honestly beleives that they are right

What about the people who don't give a rats ass either way?

	10-09-2002 08:13									#59
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I don't beleive in hell (as a literal place)

and while I beleive in heaven, I think it likely that it is just a planet out there where God chooses to be manifest

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 08:14									#60
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Well then, to further boggle your mind, I'm a non-conformist Christian who does not believe in the spiritual symbolism of heaven or hell, yet I believe in Jesus Christ and God.

I suspect that all hell is living. Heaven is the peace brought on by a good life. I don't know what comes afterwards, but niether do you.