10-09-2002 08:45									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred Now that is closer to mocking. Learn the difference Jimmy and John. Of course it is concievable. If Dan can think of then your idea of god could think of it.

Yes, a prime example of mockery.

Your posts make me tired.


Jimmy Jimmy you so fine
Jimmy Jimmy blow my mind

	10-09-2002 08:46									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I would have used comperhending (spelling?) but I was not sure if you would be touchy about that JOn Miller

I comprehend and can "imagine" it just fine, the problem I have is it not only doesn't make sense, but there's hundreds of conflicting religions out there each insisting they're correct, and there is no way to ensure there is a God or an afterlife.

Therefore, I'm not going to waste time and energy worshipping any God, I'm going to live my life expecting there to be no afterlife, and if there is an afterlife, it's just extra innings as far as I'm concerned.

I don't need religion, I don't want religion, I don't need faith, I don't want faith. It's my life, I'll live it how I want to.

	10-09-2002 08:47									#93
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger This was in response to Jimmy's "Okay, Ethel doesn't know anything about [the blood of Christ]." *** for tat, he who lives in a glass house, and all that jazz.

People in grass houses should not throw spears.

neener neener neener

	10-09-2002 08:47									#94
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Worship is fellowship with God. Worship is joy.

	10-09-2002 08:48									#95
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger What is worthy of worship, and why? For that matter, what is worship?

To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion
honor and love
Ardent devotion; adoration
worthiness, honor
To respect; to honor; to treat with civil reverence
Excellence of character; dignity; worth; worthiness.
Honor; respect; civil deference.
reverence and homage; adoration, or acts of reverence
To perform acts of homage or adoration
a feeling of profound love and admiration
love unquestioningly and uncritically


Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 08:48									#96
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Worship is fellowship with God. Worship is joy.

Joy is sex with an 18-year old virgin on a deserted tropical beach.

Worship is tedious.

	10-09-2002 08:50									#97
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Yes, Jon, I know how to use the dictionary too. I wanted your definition, what it means to you.

Also, the questions "What is worthy of worship" and "Why is it worthy of worship" are far more important.

	10-09-2002 08:51									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Asher No one is deserving of worship, it's a pointless exercise that tends to only annoy the person being worshipped unless they have a fragile ego and low self esteem...

this is where I said you were having issues with imagining

look especially at the first 6 words

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 08:52									#99
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Who is worthy of worship is a better question.

	10-09-2002 08:52									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller Salvation is a free gift to everyone it is up to them if they accept it Jon Miller

Its up to Jehovah to make it believable. The Bible simply isn't believable except to people that allready believe. I see no reason except wishfull thinking to believe in the Bible.

I don't accept a lot of things on the simple grounds that they are in conflict with the world around us. If I was credulous enough to believe the Bible there are quite a few other religions and beliefs that are no more incredible. How would I know which of the many beliefs that clearly conflict with reality I should consider the right one. I choose one less incredible belief than you do John.

Its not up to me to accept stuff that I have no reason to believe is accurate. Its up to those that come up with a religion to make it believable.

Salvation is only a gift if it is real. I see no reason at all besides wishfull thinking to believe it.

	10-09-2002 08:52									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Joy is sex with an 18-year old virgin on a deserted tropical beach.

I know a girl named Joy.

	10-09-2002 08:53									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller this is where I said you were having issues with imagining look especially at the first 6 words Jon Miller

No one is deserving of worship, Jon. Perhaps I just have higher standards than you.

Teenage girls worship Justin Timberlake, Christians worship God, I worship no one.

Maybe you just have difficulty imagining that.

	10-09-2002 08:53									#103
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I know a girl who was known as Joy to the World

I will leave you to guess why

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 08:54									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski But, on the other hand, if you believe in God, those techniques were created by God.

Exactly -- God gave Jesus Christ the most powerful form of chakra than any other person could have possessed.
But for me, God did not create the universe, nor did he create life -- however, he gave humans the gift of being able to have a spirit or soul within us -- no other creature has a spirit or soul (my belief, anyway).


And Asher, I could not tell if you were trying to start a troll chain, or if you really do have a legitimate curiousity about how people can have such diverse beliefs, and believe theirs is the true way.

	10-09-2002 08:54									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Asher No one is deserving of worship, Jon. Perhaps I just have higher standards than you. Teenage girls worship Justin Timberlake, Christians worship God, I worship no one. Maybe you just have difficulty imagining that.

so you can imagine no being worthy of worship?

that is why I am saying you are having issues with imagining

I can imagine people having difficulties with imagination just fine, thanks

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 08:56									#106
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Yes, Jon, I know how to use the dictionary too. I wanted your definition, what it means to you. Also, the questions "What is worthy of worship" and "Why is it worthy of worship" are far more important.

I think we could go into a long conversation on this

but the short answer is because God is perfect, in every way

that is why I worship him

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 08:57									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I don't need to worship him I want to wouldn't you? Jon Miller

He didn't ask why YOU needed to. He asked why god needed worship. It makes no sense for an all powerfull god to need to worship. Its plainly contradictory.

	10-09-2002 08:57									#108
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Yawn...there's always Pascal's Wager as a last resort, you know, for some people...

	10-09-2002 08:58									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller so you can imagine no being worthy of worship? that is why I am saying you are having issues with imagining

There is no point to worshipping, Jon. You do it out of habit.

There is no point to it. You've never met God, you don't know God exists, you have blind faith. You have blind faith in your God, hundreds of other religions have faith in their God(s).

Which is the true religion? Is there one?

No one can answer these questions.

But some people don't care and are so scared of life they need that security blanket of religion and nice warm thoughts, and they'll try to rationalize it to the point of brainwashing themselves.

Then the agnostics and atheists look on and chuckle to themselves and roll their eyes as the mormons bang on your door telling you to save yourself.

	10-09-2002 08:58									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Can anyone say Kaak?

Bill the Cat said it a lot. In fact a lot of cats make that sound. Just before spitting up a hairball.

	10-09-2002 08:58									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I know a girl who was known as Joy to the World I will leave you to guess why Jon Miller

I'd rather think about Joy.

	10-09-2002 08:59									#112
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quote: Originally posted by JCG Yawn...there's always Pascal's Wager as a last resort, you know, for some people...

Pascal's Wager is flawed in that there's only one true God if there is one anyway. You could spend all of your life worshipping a God only to find out the only true God is Ganesha and he just **** all over your Jesus statue.

	10-09-2002 09:00									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I think we could go into a long conversation on this

Fine, I'd prefer a long conversation that might turn out to be enlightening to a bunch of conventional answers that gets me nowhere.

	10-09-2002 09:01									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred He didn't ask why YOU needed to. He asked why god needed worship. It makes no sense for an all powerfull god to need to worship. Its plainly contradictory.

I keep sayign that He doesn't need it

that is a nto a common christian idea and has been popularized lately by some good others

(I would reccomened Small Gods by Terry Pratchett BTW, it is arguably his best book and that means it is very very very good)

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 09:01									#115
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Fine, I'd prefer a long conversation that might turn out to be enlightening to a bunch of conventional answers that gets me nowhere.

so would I, but I am going to sleep soon

Jon Miller
(and I get tired of being serious here also)

	10-09-2002 09:01									#116
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But "Ganesha" would have more mercy over you if you worship a general "God" or Jesus or something else than if you're an atheist....

Besides, there are also defences of Pascal's Wager, just have to look for them (when you're not lazy).

	10-09-2002 09:02									#117
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quote: Originally posted by JCG Yawn...there's always Pascal's Wager as a last resort, you know, for some people...

Pascal's Wager only works if God is an idiot. "Hmm, this fellow doesn't really believe in me, but he says that he believes in me... Well, that's good enough for me, let him into heaven!" Belief isn't something that can just be turned on or off at will.

	10-09-2002 09:03									#118
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I agree

Pascal's wager, while perhaps being logical

does not work (for reasons which loinburger expressed)

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 09:03									#119
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Pascal's Wager only works if God is an idiot. "Hmm, this fellow doesn't really believe in me, but he says that he believes in me... Well, that's good enough for me, let him into heaven!"

But you can use Pascal's wager as an addition to your own faith, obviously.

	10-09-2002 09:04									#120
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well, for many possible gods

(And won't work for God either)

Jon Miller