10-09-2002 09:04									#121
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quote: Originally posted by JCG But "Ganesha" would have more mercy over you if you worship a general "God" or Jesus or something else than if you're an atheist....

By similar logic, during wartime if you served as an Allied soldier the Axis forces would have more mercy over you than if you were a neutral civilian...

	10-09-2002 09:05									#122
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quote: Originally posted by JCG But you can use Pascal's wager as an addition to your own faith, obviously.

Why would you need Pascal's Wager if you've already got faith?

	10-09-2002 09:06									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Asher By similar logic, during wartime if you served as an Allied soldier the Axis forces would have more mercy over you than if you were a neutral civilian...

Good joke, I'll grant you that.

	10-09-2002 09:06									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Asher There is no point to worshipping, Jon. You do it out of habit.

You say this because you have not seen

Jon Miller
(who admits he is not the best of christians)

	10-09-2002 09:06									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller While I knew what you said to be factually correct, the way you said it was mocking see " Jimmy doesn't know the difference between a person and a title. " Jon Miller

He got huffy with me so he should be prepared to get something back in return. A lot of Christians don't know the difference for that matter. The very term Blood of Christ shows that. Its the Blood of Jesus OR THE Christ not simply Christ. Its a title. He stated it like a name.

	10-09-2002 09:07									#126
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Why would you need Pascal's Wager if you've already got faith?

As an argument when all else fails, I said before it's always a last resort.

	10-09-2002 09:08									#127
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Christ comes from the Greek Christus (sp, obviously), which means something like son/envoy of "God". I saw that in a documentary today btw, lol...

	10-09-2002 09:11									#128
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quote: Originally posted by JCG As an argument when all else fails, I said before it's always a last resort.

Last resort of what? To convert the heathens? The heathens have got doubt (that's why they're heathens), and Pascal's Wager tries to make them believe in God without actually trying to allay their doubt. That's its problem as an argument for why you should believe in God: doubt is the opposite of belief, so attempting to convert somebody without allaying their doubt is an exercise in futility.

	10-09-2002 09:12									#129
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I see no reason to use a poor argument

which arguments of last resort always are

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 09:13									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I see no reason to use a poor argument which arguments of last resort always are

You mean like "because you have not seen!"?

	10-09-2002 09:13									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Severn Yes, a prime example of mockery. Your posts make me tired.

I don't think Ming would like the appropriate comment to that. So I will just allude to it.

quote: Jimmy Jimmy you so fine Jimmy Jimmy blow my mind

Only one Jimmy in those lines. The original song wasn't Jimmy. It was a women's name which acounts for some odd conflicts in the song. "Oh Jimmy your so pretty" for instance always struck me as an odd thing for a women to say about a guy. Especially a women past thirty. I think she should have made a few more changes.

I liked it anyway.

I think its

Hey Jimmy your so fine you blow my mind

HEY Jimmy.

	10-09-2002 09:16									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You mean like "because you have not seen!"?

I was merely pointing out that you had no place in saying that I worshpi out of habit when you do not know me

nor do you have any place to say that everyone who does worship does so out of habit (or even that most worship out of habit)

it was not an argument of last resort

it was a poor expression of the rediculousness of your comment (which had no logic or basis to it)

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 09:16									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I know a girl who was known as Joy to the World I will leave you to guess why Jon Miller

How about one of the girls( I hesitate to say actresses) in Billy Jack.

Joy Bang

	10-09-2002 09:17									#134
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Hey Jimmy you're so fine you're so find you blow my mind

Hey Jimmy

(The version I've always heard is a man singing a woman's name, I didn't know that the original was a woman singing about Jimmy...)

	10-09-2002 09:17									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller it was a poor expression of the rediculousness of your comment (which had no logic or basis to it)

Am I the only one who sees the irony of a proponent of religion criticizing other people's arguments for having no logic or basis to it?

	10-09-2002 09:19									#136
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hopefully

but I suspect not

(you don't see the rediculousness of you saying putting down worship by saying everybody who does so does so out of habit?)

I would expect you to have learned decent discussion abilities in some poiint of your life

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 09:19									#137
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quote: Originally posted by JCG Yawn...there's always Pascal's Wager as a last resort, you know, for some people...

Pascal's Fraud.

I have a hard time thinking that someone so good at logic could have failed to notice the flaws in his argument. Belief sometimes overcomes reason I guess.

	10-09-2002 09:20									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller (you don't see the rediculousness of you saying putting down worship by saying everybody who does so does so out of habit?)

Not everybody.
Just most.

There is zero logical reason to worship. Zero. None. Nadda.

The closest thing you have is Pascal's Wager, which doesn't work.

Most people who do worship do so because they seek the comfort of reminding themselves that God is looking after them, that there is an afterlife, that sort of thing -- or because they do it plain out of habit.

	10-09-2002 09:21									#139
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Last resort of what? To convert the heathens?

Me? Convert heathens? Convert heathens to what?

Seriously though, that's not why I mentioned it. Just throwing an idea into the discussion.

And yes, it's a poor argument, which means I probably should have know better than that. Just don't take it so seriously, have an ice day.

	10-09-2002 09:21									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred I don't think Ming would like the appropriate comment to that. So I will just allude to it.

I was refering to Jimmy's posts, not yours. But if you feel the need to be put upon,

Neener neener neener

	10-09-2002 09:22									#141
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For some odd reason, Apolyton atheists complain about aggressive Christians, but then I think I have seen more trolls started by atheists here against Christians, than vice versa.

But other times, there has been civil, intelligent comments made by atheists when in dialogue with Apolyton Christians and vice versa.

	10-09-2002 09:23									#142
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun For some odd reason, Apolyton atheists complain about aggressive Christians, but then I think I have seen more trolls started by atheists here against Christians, than vice versa.

That might have been true before this troll right there.

	10-09-2002 09:23									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Not everybody. Just most. There is zero logical reason to worship. Zero. None. Nadda. The closest thing you have is Pascal's Wager, which doesn't work. Most people who do worship do so because they seek the comfort of reminding themselves that God is looking after them, that there is an afterlife, that sort of thing -- or because they do it plain out of habit.

you are basing your argument on your postition

very bad practice

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 09:24									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred Pascal's Fraud. I have a hard time thinking that someone so good at logic could have failed to notice the flaws in his argument. Belief sometimes overcomes reason I guess.

That's right, certainly it has many flaws. But then again you could say the same thing about the abscence of belief (or hatred of beliefs in general) clouding reason, which is also a distinct possibility (even if an unlikely one, I know).

	10-09-2002 09:24									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller you are basing your argument on your postition very bad practice Jon Miller

I'm basing it on reality, Jon.

In your own words, you're basing yours own your capability to "imagine", which doesn't bode well for how true it actually is, does it?

	10-09-2002 09:27									#146
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Hey Jimmy you're so fine you're so find you blow my mind Hey Jimmy (The version I've always heard is a man singing a woman's name, I didn't know that the original was a woman singing about Jimmy...)

Its not. That is the original you are hearing.

However there was really good and popular video where it was changed into a cheerleeding routine by Tony Basil who also sang it. She also choreographed some really funny dances for Saturday Night Live. The one that comes to mind is the four ballerinas and the four male street dancers in a parody-homage to Swan Lake.

	10-09-2002 09:31									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm basing it on reality, Jon. In your own words, you're basing yours own your capability to "imagine", which doesn't bode well for how true it actually is, does it?

no

I juat do not throw away a position unless I am sure I can

it makes me more open minded

I need to sleep now, since I have a early morning tomorrow

night all (I will check a few other threads first)

Jon Miller

	10-09-2002 09:31									#148
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I don't believe in christians.

	10-09-2002 09:34									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Severn I was refering to Jimmy's posts, not yours. But if you feel the need to be put upon, Neener neener neener

I didn't care. It was ambigous. I wanted to say something funny. I plead the Fifth.


Some Senator or other:
Please state your name for the record Mr. Gambino

Some Mafioso I have chosen to call Gambino:
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me.


So maybe it wasn't Gambino. It was some Mafia member. I wonder just how bad you have to be to find your own name to be possibly incriminating.

	10-09-2002 09:35									#150
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun For some odd reason, Apolyton atheists complain about aggressive Christians, but then I think I have seen more trolls started by atheists here against Christians, than vice versa.

I could have sworn that it was a Christian that started this thread, not an atheist...

Run a search for old religious troll threads, you'll find that almost all of them were started by Christians. My favorite was "The Evangelical Atheist," in which the thread starter basically started a religious troll thread in which he complained that atheists start too many religious troll threads or something. Good times.