13-09-2002 03:02									#1
	Help me buying a new computer! Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

So I've finally started it! My crappy PC is only 4 years old . I know something about computers, but I haven't really followed the new stuff coming out for about... maybe over a year. So I need a bit of your help.
I'd appreciate as many answers as possible, maybe even some debates about some components.
I'm basically getting the whole package, excluding the monitor. You furriners don't know our prices etc, but it would be nice to hear your views too. It's not all about money, I want the good stuff. And if you could include links when you recommend some device.. would be nice.

I like to play games very much (well.. I'd like to play then new ones too, warcraft 2 is not stimulating any more ). I especially enjoy flight simulators, fighter games etc. Also other games . So performance on that side would be manditory. I also like to do some programming, but that won't really need much resources.
I like to do some stuff with music, nothing professional, but half serious (for my own enjoyment). So I would like to have a good soundcard. But nothing too exotic, it would be cool if it actually worked when I play games.
I also want to try some video editing, but only as much as playing with it, nothing professional.. with digital videocamera. So display device should be good too, and support these. But it should not be a professional video editing tool.. support on gaming is more appreciated.

Obviously I want to go with the good ones when it comes to processor and motherboard. It doesn't have to be Intel, AMD will do just fine . I think.. has something happened in the last year in this scene? My knowledge about motherboards are slim to none. Also memory is needed, there are all kinds of new stuff like DDR and stuff like that.. I don't know anything about them, open my eyes.

Maximum hdd space for my porn. I use lots of it. I have 50 gigs already, so maybe smaller hdd would do. Maybe a nice 60 or 80 gigs drive? No SCSI however. IDE will do, or if something has happened, let me know.

I might not need info on cd-roms, but you can list the ones you have had bad experiences, or have heard.
I think those wireless keyboards and mice are cool, and they would come handy in my situation too, but there are so many to choose from! Help me!

Then.. dvd of course. What is a new package without dvd these days? Nothing. I don't know anything about those, so let me know. Burning dvds are maybe too much, I can reduce the price there. Oh and dvdplayer would be nice if it was region free. I might need a new cd-r too, my old crappy HP is really trying to survive with bad results.

Did I forget something? Mention if I did. Links, info, everything. My financial situation is not that great, but this is something I need so... And please, don't look up for the ones that have highest prices and say that's what you want.. I would like to keep some cost effeciency too, if possible.

	13-09-2002 03:07									#2
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Now is not the best time to be buying a new computer, to be honest.

On the Intel side, AGP 8x, Serial ATA, and official DDR333/PC1066 RDRAM support is coming in a couple months, and the 3GHz+ P4s will come with HyperThreading in November.
On the AMD side, upcoming chips will use a faster 333MHz system bus by around October/November, and then by early next year a new core called Barton will be out with 512KB of L2 cache instead of the current 256KB. The 64-bit Athlon comes out then too.
On the graphics card side, the new Nvidia chip (which is a totally new design, not based on any previous chip) is due out in November/December as well.

So when will you be buying it? This month, or early next year, or what? It's not BAD to buy now, it's just that there's an unusually large amount of new technology coming out within 4 months.

	13-09-2002 03:11									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yeah, but I really need it, I have been waiting and waiting for few years.. I can always wait more for new tech.. hoping it takes the prices down of other products.
I'm thinking of buying it in about 2 months, when I have gathered the money for it doing a very shitty job .

ps. I'm also trying to study for TOEFL and SAT at the same time.. kind of tough but I will prevail!

	13-09-2002 03:17									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Asher, you'd wait a few months then? What would you recommend?

I am thinking about getting a new computer within few months, but I am not sure what I want to get yet.

	13-09-2002 03:18									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

2 months works, Intel will launch new versions of its i845 and i850 chipsets which support newer, faster RAM officially (DDR333 for SDRAM or PC1066 for RDRAM), AGP 8x (2GB/s, current is AGP 4x -- 1 GB/s), and support for HyperThreading CPUs.

I'd go for a Pentium 4 based system. At least in North America, AMD's simply aren't cheaper anymore for similarly performing chips.

(the following prices are in USD from Pricewatch.com)
2800 P4: $508
2533 P4: $156
2200 Athlon XP: $144
(the 2.53GHz P4 is the market sweetspot right now)

i850 motherboard (RDRAM, for Pentium 4): $35
i845 motherboard (DDR SDRAM, for Pentium 4): $36
KT333 motherboard (DDR SDRAM, for Athlon XP): $64

PC1066 RDRAM is slightly faster than DDR333 SDRAM for the Pentium 4s (you don't have a choice of RDRAM vs DDR for Athlons), but RDRAM also costs more:

256MB PC1066 RDRAM: $109
256MB DDR333 SDRAM: $54

	13-09-2002 03:22									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I would go for a AMD based system... just because.

Anyways, watch out what kind of motherboard you get... you could regret it later. Some brands to avoid are Soyo and Shuttle. I usually recommend going with Gigabyte.

	13-09-2002 03:24									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I hear a 4-86 is the shiznit!

	13-09-2002 03:26									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

For video cards, the Radeon 9700 Pro is your best bet if you're a gamer. Full DirectX 9 hardware support, 8 graphics pipes instead of 4, 256-bit memory bus instead of 128-bit, 96-bit floating point color instead of 32-bit integer, etc. It's also expensive though, the cheapest online is $325 (128MB).

I'm not too fond of ATI's drivers, but supposedly they're decent this time around.

If you're going the Nvidia route, NV30 is a DirectX 9.1 part and outdoes the Radeon 9700 on paper and most likely in practice as well, but won't be out till the end of the year.

If you don't need a DX9 part, get one of the GeForce 4 Ti cards (DX8). Do not get an MX.

	13-09-2002 03:31									#9
	Put an end to popups!

Now we're going the right way!
Unfortunately I have to go to sleep now, have to do lots of work tomorrow.. to be able to pay for it . I know, my salary sucks, do you know many people who have to work for straight 2 months just to get a decent computer (when all the money is going directly to it)?
Nighty night, I'll check back tomorrow, and hope to find a whopping 19 pages of answers, links and debates.

	13-09-2002 03:32									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Would you put your own system together then?

I do enough of that kind of stuff at work, I was quite happy with my Dell purchase for my last computer.

	13-09-2002 03:34									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It's cheaper to put your own stuff together, but you don't get the warranty like Dell's. It's a tradeoff.

I build my own, and rely on the specific parts' warranties.

	13-09-2002 19:54									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yes, I'll be putting it together myself naturally.
But I need hints about what are the hot stuff today.

	13-09-2002 21:01									#13
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I recommend AMD based systems.

Here's a suggestion based on what you can easily get from Verkkokauppa.com in Finland and if you want a PC that has a good value, but isn't as expensive as Asher's high-end PC's. Product numbers are also included for Verkkokauppa.com.

Mobo: 6474 - MSI KT3 Ultra2
CPU: 3493 - AMD Athlon XP 2000+
RAM: 8531 - Kingston 512MB DDR 333MHz
GPU: 7317 - 3654 - Hercules 3D Prophet FDX 8500 DVI 128MB (ATI Radeon 8500 chipset based)
HDD: 8536 - Western Digital Caviar 80GB EIDE 7200rpm
DVD-ROM: 1513 - Lite-On LTD-163 16X DVD-1648
CD-RW: 2762 - Plextor Plexwriter 40X/12X/40A
FDD: 1346 - Samsung/Nec 3.5" 1.44MB
Sound card: 7637 - Philips Acoustic Edge 5.1
Speakers: 5524 - Creative Inspire 5.1 Digital 5700
Mouse and keyboard: 2120 - Logitech Cordless Desktop Optical
Case: 4591 - Enlight EN-7238 300W ATX

I will be back on Sunday, so I can have a look at the details then. And if you have any questions, just ask here or send e-mail. Sorry for not having more time now, Pekka.

I agree with Asher that homemade PC's are cheaper, but also better. BTW, Soyo's mobos aren't always that bad. It depends much on the chipset and model, Fez.

Last edited by Rasbelin on 14-09-2002 at 19:46

	13-09-2002 22:46									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Soyo's mainstream KT-266A and KT-333 Motherboards are buggy and don't work half of the time. IRQ conflicts are a major problem....

	13-09-2002 22:55									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The only thing I recommend is not get a DVD. Unless of course there is some porn stuff you must watch on your computer.

	13-09-2002 22:56									#16
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UR, I watch DVD movies the last one was "We Were Soliders" on my computer.... Don't have any porn.

	13-09-2002 23:15									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Fez Don't have any porn.

Shame on you.

	14-09-2002 00:10									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

porn deserves dvd.

	14-09-2002 02:19									#19
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quote: Originally posted by dunk Shame on you.

Why should I? DVD is not only meant for porn... that statement is stupid to make.

	14-09-2002 02:28									#20
	Remove this text

Well then maybe he's joking....although in the case that he's not, perhaps it was best to spam and reply seriously. (that's why everyone hates you Fez...you reply endlessly to things that no one would reply to. you are stupid!!)

UR, why do you suggest no DVD player?

Edit: Pekka, I dunno where you live, but in the US, on occasion, we can run across speciel "teacher/student" prices for Microsoft products. Or at least I read that we could a couple months ago. Anyone know about this?

	14-09-2002 02:31									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

shhh! he'll get mad at you, ero!

as for a new computer, don't bother. they're a passing fad anyway.

	14-09-2002 02:42									#22
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger The only thing I recommend is not get a DVD.

What the hell?
DVD-ROMs aren't that expensive, why would you ever recommend not getting one?

Not only will you be able to play DVDs with them, but CDs are becoming too small for modern games. Pretty soon they're going to stop shipping like 3-4 CDs (ala Neverwinter Nights) and just ship on 1 DVD. Many Linux distros already offer DVDs instead of multiple CDs.

Recommending someone not get a DVD player on a new PC is possibly the stupidest thing you have ever said.

	14-09-2002 17:54									#23
	Got spare money?

Yeah well I'm gonna get me a dvd, so more advises what player to buy please .

Rasbelin, I'm going to buy my stuff from verkkokauppa most likely. Are you by any chance working there? How about a nice friends deal? I got my last computer in tax free without the 22% tax.. It was nice.

I still need your comments about display devices, I'm really out what has happened with them. My current one is matrox agp 200, and that was state of the art then, and what has happened since then is out of my league. I'm hearing things about radeon etc.. nvidia, but I still like Matrox as a brand.. I don't know about these so I get my concepts mixed. It should be good for gaming, maybe some video editing and it should have tv-out.

	14-09-2002 18:25									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

as far as suppliers/manufacturers go, you really can't go wrong with Dell...

	14-09-2002 18:30									#25
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I have some doubts about Dell.. but it doesn't matter, I already know my supplier. I just want to get enough info and opinions so I can make up my mind what to get.

	14-09-2002 18:54									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

dude, just get a dell...as a matter of fact, you can call and order one from me

	14-09-2002 19:26									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

I'll post more tomorrow, but a few quick comments.

quote: Originally posted by Pekka Yeah well I'm gonna get me a dvd, so more advises what player to buy please.

Look at the list i posted. You'll probably notice a DVD-ROM and a CD-RW drive. In general I always recommend Plextor's high-quality drives as they're good, but not too expensive. The Lite-On DVD-ROM drive is the cheapest one on Verkkokauppa.com, but it's good too. At least I've never heard that anyone would have had a bad Lite-On CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive.

quote: Rasbelin, I'm going to buy my stuff from verkkokauppa most likely. Are you by any chance working there? How about a nice friends deal?

I'm sorry, but I don't work there. If I would be working there, I'm sure you could get subsidised components. The reason why I recommend them is that they have a large variety of items, low prices and and excellent webshop.

quote: I'm hearing things about radeon etc.. nvidia, but I still like Matrox as a brand.. I don't know about these so I get my concepts mixed. It should be good for gaming, maybe some video editing and it should have tv-out.

The list I made up includes a graphics card that has TV-out, but it also provides almost as good picture quality as Maxtor's cards, while nVidia's cards have so far always been bad in 2D picture quality compared to ATI and Matrox. That's also a reason why I'm now only using ATI's cards; but I would prefer Matrox, but because Parhelia wasn't out when I bought my current cards, I don't have any cards from Matrox now in use. I'll post more about this tomorrow. because I'm in a hurry now.

Kaak,

Pekka lives in Finland, so he can't order from you.

	14-09-2002 19:27									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Noooo you evil Dell vendors get away from me!

All you have been just added to my own Axis of Evil

	14-09-2002 19:36									#29
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Oh and Rasbelin, your recommended set is very appealing to me. I like it a lot. The only thing I'm still wondering is that Hercules.. I have to find out more about that card.

	14-09-2002 19:43									#30
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Earlier this year ATI and Hercules agreed that Hercules would be the distributor of all ATI products in Europe from now on, because ATI wanted to concentrate on the North American market and on product development. So the Hercules branded crads are actually ATI manufactured products, but with Hercules' box and tags. I have one of these cards (a Radeon 7500 card); it's branded as Hercules, but the card is manufactured and marked with ATI's logo.