22-09-2002 20:49									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Oh, I won't deny you that, but to say that there is nothing to be gained from lunar missions is, in my mind, just silliness, and on par with saying that there's nothing to be gained from....say, tinkering with the notion of flight.

Tinkering with flight is cheap and easy.

Tinkering with moon landings costs billions. That is the difference.

	22-09-2002 20:55									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx ::shrug:: Fair enough....but don't start complaining 'bout an "American Extra-Terrestrial Hegemony" if you're not even willing to try.... -=Vel=-

We are interested in space, but we are choosing a different method of (unmanned) exploration.

	22-09-2002 21:21									#183
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umanned exploartion can only do so much.

	22-09-2002 21:26									#184
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quote: originally posted by Velociryx: When it happens, the things we learned by making our lunar excursions will be the key building blocks for more advanced, more ambitious undertakings.

Amen!

	22-09-2002 22:40									#185
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::nodding in agreement::

Not a thing in the world wrong with launching unmanned missions to probe into new areas first. In fact, a study of NASA missions reveals that the US does the very same thing.

The difference is that the European Space Agency seems content with that for the foreseeable future. All well and good, but again, when US moon and mars colonies start springing up, don't start crying foul about an American hegemony in space....you guys have the technical know-how....if you elect not to use it, that's not our fault....

-=Vel=-

	22-09-2002 23:24									#186
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quote: The difference is that the European Space Agency seems content with that for the foreseeable future. All well and good, but again, when US moon and mars colonies start springing up, don't start crying foul about an American hegemony in space....you guys have the technical know-how....if you elect not to use it, that's not our fault....

Does NASA have any concrete plans for Mars of Lunar bases?

	22-09-2002 23:26									#187
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quote: 5) Advances in astronomy. The Hubble is pretty good at what it does, but imagine a lunar observatory and what it could do for our understanding of the stars.

A moon-based telescope is certainly inferior to Hubble. The atmospheric pressure on the moon is only 1/1000 of that of the earth (IIRC), but only after another 1/100-1/1000 you arrive at a pressure where the term "wind" doesn't make physical sense. And as long as you have wind, you have dust in the atmosphere. I don't really know the conditions on the moon, but I could guess that on a clean day on earth with little atmospheric disturbations you can get even better conditions than on the moon on an average day: The earth has water to bind the dust. For a telescope, I'd stay with satellite based.

	22-09-2002 23:31									#188
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lemmy last time i heard was 2005 when the astronaouts whould leave but its probaly been changed

	22-09-2002 23:34									#189
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quote: lemmy last time i heard was 2005 when the astronaouts would leave but its probaly been changed

would, or could?

	22-09-2002 23:47									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Gee... johncmcleod, when I see threads like this, it makes be embarressed to be an American... It makes me want to start some American Bashing myself... But that's ok, I don't think this thread is lasting too long anyway...

Bah...shall we call that a Ming Jinx?


However, the topic of the thread has changed...quite significantly.

	22-09-2002 23:53									#191
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quote: However, the topic of the thread has changed...quite significantly.

no it hasn't, we're just exploring the different meanings of the word best, right now we're taking a spacy approach to it

quote: Not a thing in the world wrong with launching unmanned missions to probe into new areas first. In fact, a study of NASA missions reveals that the US does the very same thing. The difference is that the European Space Agency seems content with that for the foreseeable future.

http://www.esa.int/export/esaHS/ESA...C_future_0.html

quote: The search for life will be a major element in all future Mars missions, including the 2003 Mars Express and its Beagle 2 lander. In the longer term, it's also of interest to ESA's Aurora Programme, which has the task of taking human spaceflight beyond the ISS and out into the solar system over the next thirty years. Along the way, Aurora will be guiding the development of improved soft-landing technology and broadband interplanetary communications, as well as sophisticated robot science packages. But there is a limit to what robots can do. As a step towards its prime goal, Aurora might consider a sample return mission that could bring Mars rocks back for more thorough analysis on Earth.

	23-09-2002 00:20									#192
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 lemmy last time i heard was 2005 when the astronaouts whould leave but its probaly been changed

Where do you get this rubbish from, or are you just making it up?

	23-09-2002 00:24									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx The difference is that the European Space Agency seems content with that for the foreseeable future. All well and good, but again, when US moon and mars colonies start springing up, don't start crying foul about an American hegemony in space....you guys have the technical know-how....if you elect not to use it, that's not our fault.... -=Vel=-

Not complaining at all, just stating my opinion.

If the US set up its own colonies on Mars and the Moon then the cost of making such bases would probablyl be significantly cheap and easy. ESA could easily follow suit.

If however the US had just spent a few thousand trillion dollars on the project, and ESA had to spend the same, I would say forget it, its not worth it.



If we compare to the exploration and colonization of the 1500s onward, England was centuries behind Spain, didn't turn out to bad in the end.

	23-09-2002 00:30									#194
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well i just learned it was set for 2005 but congress cut backs changed the date to bring back rock samples from mars in 2011

http://www.space.com/scienceastrono...ars_001026.html

	23-09-2002 00:31									#195
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where did you get that info from?
a link maybe??

	23-09-2002 00:51									#196
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 well i just learned it was set for 2005 but congress cut backs changed the date to bring back rock samples from mars in 2011 http://www.space.com/scienceastrono...ars_001026.html

Where exactly does it mention a manned mission?

You were talking about scheduling for astronauts to go there and back in the proximate future. Can you provide a link to such a proposal?

	23-09-2002 01:08									#197
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx The difference is that the European Space Agency seems content with that for the foreseeable future. All well and good, but again, when US moon and mars colonies start springing up, don't start crying foul about an American hegemony in space....you guys have the technical know-how....if you elect not to use it, that's not our fault.... -=Vel=-

Isn't that kind of assuming that 1) America is still a superpower and 2) That there are no others?

	23-09-2002 01:37									#198
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like i said they changed the date

	23-09-2002 01:42									#199
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Again, where does it mention it was ever going to be a manned mission? Nowhere as far as I can see.

I know for a fact it was never going to be manned. You are making it up as you go along.

	23-09-2002 01:44									#200
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god i just said they changed it do you not understand, goodness go find a link if you want one that is a updated misson plan

	23-09-2002 01:45									#201
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And I am telling you point blank that you are talking absolute bollocks.

	23-09-2002 03:04									#202
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quote: goodness go find a link if you want one that is a updated misson plan

no, that is your job, since you claimed it, and while your at it, quote the piece where it says it is a manned mission, or the part that says they are building a base there.

	23-09-2002 03:18									#203
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there not going to be a link to something they said in 1990

	23-09-2002 03:41									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Isn't that kind of assuming that 1) America is still a superpower and 2) That there are no others?

Not really; they're discussing an America that's willing to go versus an EU that's not, leaving any other potential powers out for the sake of the argument.

It might very well be the Russo-American Empire up there, if we both play our cards right.

	23-09-2002 05:01									#205
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 there not going to be a link to something they said in 1990

How convenient.

I presume you are refering to Bush's speech of 1989. He wanted to cash in on the 20th anniversary of the moon landings by speculating that Mars landings could be acheived by 2019. The whole "plan" fell apart when it was actually put to NASA.

Don't try and fob speculation by an ill-informed politician, whose ideas fell apart as soon as they left his mouth, as a real effort to get men to Mars.

	23-09-2002 05:07									#206
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the fact of the matter is america leads in space programs, it could build the inst by itself its just letting other countires help so they can say they had a part in it.

	23-09-2002 14:12									#209
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quote: the fact of the matter is america leads in space programs, it could build the inst by itself its just letting other countires help so they can say they had a part in it.

the inst? what's that?

	23-09-2002 14:25									#210
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Personally I think that the future is with unmanned exploration.

How many of you would want to live on an asteroid (which would be like living on an oil rig, but not as spacious or safe ) iif the resources of that asteroid could be made available to you whilst on earth?
The only real reason for living in space is to be 'free' of the politics of earth - any such settlements will benefit no terrestrial nation.


We in europe have far more experience with exploring and exploiting far off places than you americans (who only had a frontier next to your territory).
In fact I would go so far as to compare the US's manned space program with Cheng Ho's expeditions of the 1430's - both were very impressive compared with europe's efforts, and they predated them, but both were mainly driven by government and the desire for prestige and as such extremely vunerable to politics.
One of Cheng Ho's expeditions was far more impressive than those of Henry the Navigator's - but we all know which one's changed the world.