23-09-2002 16:00									#211
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Lemmy quote: the fact of the matter is america leads in space programs, it could build the inst by itself its just letting other countires help so they can say they had a part in it. the inst? what's that?

Doesn't matter, the DL is dead.

	23-09-2002 17:17									#212
	Re: Like it or not Euros, we're the best country in the world Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod I don't mean to brag, but a lot of Euros laugh when we say we're the best country in the world.

I don't laugh.

I just think it's a pretty god-darned arrogant thing to say, and it makes me think perhaps I can understand why some people just want to screw you over any way they can.

-And don't start to give me any of that crap about being invulnerable. Remember, it just took a handful of thugs with knives to prove that you're not.

	23-09-2002 18:01									#213
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

El Freako, I disagree. Had CNN provided global coverage of Cheng Ho's expeditions, I think it'd be safe to assume that our history books would read differently. In a world outfitted with near-instantaneous, round-the-clock communications, there's the guy who did it first, and then there's the also-rans.

-=Vel=-

	23-09-2002 18:31									#214
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Please define the word 'best' as used in the title.

I presume you don't mean 'most pleasant to live in'...

	23-09-2002 21:08									#215
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Velociryx El Freako, I disagree. Had CNN provided global coverage of Cheng Ho's expeditions, I think it'd be safe to assume that our history books would read differently. In a world outfitted with near-instantaneous, round-the-clock communications, there's the guy who did it first, and then there's the also-rans. -=Vel=-

If that is so please explain why, despite massive media coverage and a great selection of 'firsts', NASA's budget is at least an order of magitude lower (relative to GDP) than it was 30 years ago.
I think that, if modern communications had existed 600 years ago, then the ordinary chinese citizen would be as apathetic about Cheng Ho's expeditions as today's US citizen is about space exploration (i.e. it's nice, but they see no tangible benefits for themselves, only costs).


Personally I think that humans will colonize space - but I think there will only be significant populations off earth (1m or more) by the 22nd century - and most of the people doing the actual colonizing will be africans, arabs and south asians.

	24-09-2002 02:28									#216
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Oh, johncmcleod, you've really convinced me! I sold my house, grabbed my baggage, my wife and my child and already stand on the door of almighty USA, the objectively best place in the world. I can imagine nothing better than moving to Arkansas or Mississippi, the deeper in the Bible-belt the better, apply for a loan and spend my whole life paying the loan back so my children can study, while having only 2 weeks of holidays and no social or medical security at all...

Your opinion in all honor, john, I don't tell you that you should love Europe or the European system more than your private Idaho. But please abstain from telling us over here that the USA are objectively THE BEST. I've been there (and to quite a few other places in the world) and the USA didn't convince me at all - you got some really nice places and I grant that your Jazz-music is light-years ahead of that in Europe, but I definitely prefer Austria to the USA, or at least to the major parts of it. And I don't do so with bias, but because I feel it.

I got an offer for an extra-education, supplied with scholarship money, in the USA but I declined because that would mean a career in the US, or more specifically Arkansas, and I can imagine far better places for my child...

	24-09-2002 12:30									#217
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Wernazuma I agree with. Especially when it comes to kids growing up in the US compared to most countries in Europe the US looses a lot. I've been in school in three different countries among them the US and I must say that the quality of most US high schools can not even come near to the ones in Europe. I remember once as an exchange student in the St. Louis area, what kind of questions the students there asked me, crazy. Although I should note the positive (and partly naive) attitude they had with us exchange students unlike the kids here in Europe who would instantly fall into stereotypes! If you asked me though today I would go and live in the US if the offer was good enough. I'd be sending my kids to Europe though as much as posiible.

So long...

	26-09-2002 09:11									#218
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

As I said before, I am not trying to be arrogant. Some Europeans said in a thread that the US was not even the third best country in the world. This whole thread was mainly an argument against that, not some bragging contest. I used the word 'best' in the title because I knew if I said we were the best it would really attract attentino. And I sure was right.

Wernazuma-If you are well educated, speak good English, and work hard I don't think being an immigrant would be as hard as you said.

quote: originally posted by Wernazuma III: Oh, johncmcleod, you've really convinced me! I sold my house, grabbed my baggage, my wife and my child and already stand on the door of almighty USA, the objectively best place in the world. I can imagine nothing better than moving to Arkansas or Mississippi, the deeper in the Bible-belt the better, apply for a loan and spend my whole life paying the loan back so my children can study, while having only 2 weeks of holidays and no social or medical security at all...

With all due respect, it's funny what you just said. Millions of immigrants throughout history have done just that to be in the US. I'd like to compliment you though on stating your opinion better than some other people. Some just accused me of 'breathtaking arrogance' and such. You actually said you honored that I have my own opionon which some others didn't.

And Sagacious Dolphin-What year did the US do their first space walk? (I know that was after the USSR did it, but where's the USSR now?)? And what year was the first European (besides Russians) to go into space? Yes, Europe may have more satellites, but why were the US and the USSR the only ones in the space race? I know there is some thought on whether or not we landed on the moon, and whether we did it or not it was proved by mathematicians that we had the technology to do it, and anyways, if we didn't make it to the moon, we got closer than that goal than the Europeans have.

	26-09-2002 12:40									#219
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I used the word 'best' in the title because I knew if I said we were the best it would really attract attentino. And I sure was right.

i just love that backpeddling

quote: And Sagacious Dolphin-What year did the US do their first space walk? (I know that was after the USSR did it, but where's the USSR now?)? And what year was the first European (besides Russians) to go into space? Yes, Europe may have more satellites, but why were the US and the USSR the only ones in the space race? I know there is some thought on whether or not we landed on the moon, and whether we did it or not it was proved by mathematicians that we had the technology to do it, and anyways, if we didn't make it to the moon, we got closer than that goal than the Europeans have.

ok, i'm not SD, but here goes...
I don't doubt that the moonlanding was real, but the biggest reason the US did it was because of the USSR, now like you said, where is the USSR now?
And how long has it been since your last moonlanding? eh?
The US days of glory in space we're in the 60' and 70's, the only big thing you did recently was maybe the mars rover, and the EU has already planned a schedule for several Mars missions during the next 30 years. And why the USSR and US were the only ones in the space race? WW2 maybe?

	26-09-2002 17:15									#220
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod Yes, Europe may have more satellites, but why were the US and the USSR the only ones in the space race? I know there is some thought on whether or not we landed on the moon, and whether we did it or not it was proved by mathematicians that we had the technology to do it, and anyways, if we didn't make it to the moon, we got closer than that goal than the Europeans have.

You seemed to have missed my entire point. Going to the moon is a great acheivement, but it is one that many nations can match - but choose not to. The USSR and Europe never went to the moon because there was no point - there was and is absolutely nothing to gain that could justify the cost.

If the US had launched a satellite before Sputnik, a dog before Laika, or an astronaut before Yuri Gagarin, then the US would have had no reason to go to the moon and the Apollo programme would never have existed. The whole programme was about ego-stroking and reassuring the American public.

	28-09-2002 02:15									#221
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: With all due respect, it's funny what you just said. Millions of immigrants throughout history have done just that to be in the US.

Well, that was especially because there was much space and immigrants were welcome and the situation of those immigrants back home was more than bad. But especially because they could expect to get LAND for subsistance. Immigration to those parts in South America which were "conquered" from the natives very late (southern Chile for example) the immigration was no less than in the USA (proportionally of course, not in absolute numbers).
None of these factors is valid today, except for the immigration laws which are still more liberal than over here in Europe. Yet, many fugitives prefer to go to Europe. Certainly, many chose the US as well, but it's not the desired destination for everyone -

Why? Because whether one place is "good" or "better" is not an objective category. You can't take a few economic datas, a music-style and then say "US are the best". It simply depends on the importance one ascribes to certain facettes of life. As I've already said in my first post (I guess), it is absolutely unimaginable to me living in a surrounding which is so hard-line puritan-protestant as many parts of the US are. Someone who loves Jazz really really much will probably say New Orleans is THE BEST place in the world - for my part, I can do pretty well without swamp, mosquitos and a high crime rate...
If you've got no problem with taking risks, one can probably make more money in the US than anywhere else and more opportunities to make it. Yet, others could rather think it's desirable to live in a state that offers a better social security, just in the case that not everything goes as planned. Being poor in the US is not really a funny thing...


It really depends what you're focussing on and we should let it bew good with this. I've had discussions with several Americans on that issue and it was always like they were still thinking "But when you get the chance, you WOULD go to the US, because it's so much better", no matter what I said to convince them that I probably wouldn't (it all depends on the offer ). And I guess I'm not the only European with this experience, so that probably explains why some accused you of being "breathtaking arrogant". I won't, because it's absolutely fine for me that YOU consider the US the best place to dwell. But it makes no sense to tell all others that they should accept this "truth" because it all depends on what someone wants for his life.

	03-10-2002 06:13									#222
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

i have no "breathtaking arrogant", i chose to defend my country in words from people like u, I just went to France and I went out to eat when they heard i was American they rose the price of my food, saying america is a religious country is a false sterotype. And into somebody else post about america beening a warmgonger country is stupid too first Europe has asked us to join all world war, or in colinal periods attacked us first.

	03-10-2002 20:48									#223
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by flash9286 I just went to France and I went out to eat when they heard i was American they rose the price of my food,

Can you indicate me where you ate ? Because such act it's totally illegal in France. We have a very straight laws about prices.

Many french don't appreciate Americans, but if you see some American tourists in France, you will understand the reason.

	03-10-2002 21:08									#224
	Remove this text

In my experience, you might be completely (and arrogantly)ignored if you speak English. Many of my friends share the same experience.
I heard from a French guy I know that this is most common in Paris and not so bad in the rest of France but he didn't really know why.
Do you have any explanation to this phenomenon? It is no big problem in any other country I have visited, only in France

	03-10-2002 21:11									#225
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Most French people hate Parisites. I mean Parisians, anyway..

	04-10-2002 00:12									#227
	Put an end to popups!

it was at a mcdonalds

	04-10-2002 00:34									#228
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

flash9286: Sorry to say this, but this sounds more like a legend you're making up - or it simply shows that you're the most pathetic wimp. If something like this happens to me (and stupid things happen everywhere in this world), I make the guy smaller than an ant, calling the management. Do you want to tell me that the French management in a McDonalds would accept such a behavior?

The story smells like made up - no one in a McDonalds, not even in France- threatens his job by raising prices for americans.

I know raised prices for tourists in Croatia and Czech Repoublic, but even there only in private restaurants and not in a fast food chain!

Sorry, I mistrust your little story.

	04-10-2002 00:36									#229
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

whatever i dont have to prove myself to a liar.

	04-10-2002 01:14									#230
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Where exactly did I lie?

	04-10-2002 01:19									#231
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

saying it didnt happen to me and sterotyping americans

	04-10-2002 01:33									#232
	Suffering from ads?

Wernazuma, just put him on ignore, reading its drivel is not worth the efforts.

	04-10-2002 01:39									#233
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: saying it didnt happen to me and sterotyping americans

he said he misttrusts it, not that it didn't happen, whether he believes it or not is entirely up to him, and that doesn't make him a liar.

	04-10-2002 01:54									#234
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

* Pandemoniak hits the table with his fist and shout : "So be it ! Vendetta upon you!"

	04-10-2002 03:10									#235
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by flash9286 saying it didnt happen to me and sterotyping americans

Exactly what I thought. Go and get a dictionary, reading the definition of "lie": vi; (pt,pp lied, pres part lying, n; make a statement that one knows to be untrue

This obviously doesn't apply to anything I've said.
And you will be on my ignore-list from now, so any further flaming will fail its sense.

	04-10-2002 03:17									#236
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III Exactly what I thought. Go and get a dictionary, reading the definition of "lie": vi; (pt,pp lied, pres part lying, n; make a statement that one knows to be untrue This obviously doesn't apply to anything I've said. And you will be on my ignore-list from now, so any further flaming will fail its sense.

Unless of course, somebody quotes him every time he posts......




But you are definately right, that story is simply crap.

	04-10-2002 03:39									#237
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'm feeling really proud of myself...

I didn't use this thread as an excuse for trolling...

wow...

amazing...

**passes out**

	04-10-2002 04:32									#238
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by flash9286 ...saying america is a religious country is a false sterotype. And into somebody else post about america beening a warmgonger country is stupid too first Europe has asked us to join all world war, or in colinal periods attacked us first.

Righhht. So how did the war of 1812 start again? And the Spanish-American of 1898?

'America as a religious country is a false stereotype. '

Hmmm...Would that be the same America that gave us Oral Roberts University, the Mormon Church, Mary Baker Eddy, Scientology, the (IM)Moral Majority, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and so on, ad nauseam?

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm

Praise God and pass the ammunition!

	04-10-2002 04:52									#239
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: 'America as a religious country is a false stereotype. '

in the USA, one third of the population takes the Bible literally. no other western nation has figures that high (not counting Vatican City). Furthermore, 40% believes in Creationism, and 56% believe that the book of Revelation will come true. Those figures aren't found in any other western nation. None. (source, Time Europe)

	04-10-2002 04:54									#240
	Tired of ads?

first the war of 1812 was caused by enmapnction of sailors into the british navy, and mormon church was devolped in England and so was lots of othe relgions, Europe has destoryed so many cultures and socities it not even funny.