04-10-2002 04:57									#241
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 first the war of 1812 was caused by enmapnction of sailors into the british navy, and mormon church was devolped in England and so was lots of othe relgions, Europe has destoryed so many cultures and socities it not even funny.

Really? The mormon church was found in England? Wow, I thought Joseph Smith was from New York.

	04-10-2002 05:09									#242
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well the mormons claim that it was founded by Christ when he lived “in mortality” and since its their church they should decide who founded it

	04-10-2002 05:19									#243
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 first the war of 1812 was caused by enmapnction of sailors into the british navy, and mormon church was devolped in England and so was lots of othe relgions, Europe has destoryed so many cultures and socities it not even funny.

Please pay attention to your own posts. You may get lost if you don't...

'And into somebody else post about america beening a warmgonger country is stupid too first Europe has asked us to join all world war, or in colinal periods attacked us first.'

'Or in colonial periods attacked us first.'

Who invaded whom in July 1812? I believe it was an invasion of Upper Canada from Detroit wasn't it? That is, America invading Canada... after Madison had declared war on the British Empire in June 1812.

Please remind me- didn't the United States have some experience fighting Indian Wars? Invading Central America? Fighting Mexico? Attempting to overthrow the emancipated slave Republic of Haiti with Napoleon?

Could you tell me what other religions have been developed in England? I seem to have missed out on some vital opportunities at self-improvement...

	04-10-2002 05:44									#244
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 well the mormons claim that it was founded by Christ when he lived “in mortality” and since its their church they should decide who founded it

What does that have to do with you saying it was found in England?

	04-10-2002 06:16									#245
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i was saying that the relgions didnt evolve in america like you all were saying so get you stuff right, and as i said before the war of 1812 was becuse of the martime laws of britian we had to do something.

	04-10-2002 06:19									#246
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 i was saying that the relgions didnt evolve in america like you all were saying so get you stuff right, and as i said before the war of 1812 was becuse of the martime laws of britian we had to do something.

Get MY stuff right?

I didn't say the mormon church evolved in England, you did.

	04-10-2002 06:24									#247
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i wasnt talking to you

	04-10-2002 10:02									#248
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Yeah, we invaded Canada, but don't say it wasn't unprovoked. Britain was seizing American ships because of a dispute with France. In 1807 a British ship attacked the Chesapeake and took its crew. Britain completely provoked it by bullying America around, who was just starting out as a nation. Just think, why would a fledgling nation attack the strongest nation in the world? I believe there'd be reason behind it. And in the Mexican War, it wasn't just a war of aggression. We gave back most of the territory we invaded to the Mexicans. We put the border at where we though it was in the first place and claimed no further land.

	04-10-2002 10:49									#249
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Why is this thread still on the front page? For ****'s sake, people. At least Paiktis has the common courtesy to make his nationalist trolls as blatantly offensive as possible--keeps them from droning on and on and on...

Every time I see this **** on the front page it makes me ashamed to be a citizen of Tonga.

	04-10-2002 11:04									#250
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quote: We gave back most of the territory we invaded to the Mexicans. We put the border at where we though it was in the first place and claimed no further land

	04-10-2002 11:10									#251
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How many times do I have to tell you people?! This thread isn't some flag-waving thing, it was meant as a thread for arguing. Some Europeans said we weren't the best, and I was arguing with them. It's as simple as that.

	04-10-2002 11:13									#252
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It's true. We made it to Mexico City but set the border at the Rio Grande.

	04-10-2002 12:48									#253
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod Just think, why would a fledgling nation attack the strongest nation in the world? I believe there'd be reason behind it.

Yes- the reason being the chance to achieve an American hegemon over the northern part of the North American continent.
It took five years to go to war? Gosh, I knew some Americans had a reputation for being slow, but that's unbelievable.
As to the timing- well, a little series of affairs called the Napoleonic Wars had been going on in Europe- with Great Britain committing its forces to the Peninsula War in Spain and to trying to create a naval stranglehold on Napoleon's empire. Perhaps you'd care to tell us who the 'War Hawks' were- and what America's avowed aims were.

Just why would a fledgling nation, for instance, attempt to put an end to the Republic of Haiti?

Oh and flash- learn to formulate an argument and proper replies. Simply reiterating illiterate drivel isn't an argument.

	04-10-2002 13:00									#254
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quote: In 1807 a British ship attacked the Chesapeake and took its crew. Britain completely provoked it by bullying America around, who was just starting out as a nation. Just think, why would a fledgling nation attack the strongest nation in the world? I believe there'd be reason behind it.

Now that got me interested in hearing what you think about the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Provoked/unprovoked, reasone behind it, yes/no?

	04-10-2002 16:17									#255
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Britain and France destoryed so many cultures and socities all around the world, there coloinal merticliasm and imperalsim destoryed the colonies they thought were theirs.

	04-10-2002 16:58									#256
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US not a wamonger? tell that to the Native Americans...

	04-10-2002 21:09									#257
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quote: Britain and France destoryed so many cultures and socities all around the world, there coloinal merticliasm and imperalsim destoryed the colonies they thought were theirs.

oh yeah, the great "they did it, so we can do it too"-argument

	04-10-2002 23:35									#258
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yep, two wrongs make a right in the US

	04-10-2002 23:36									#259
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quote: US not a wamonger? tell that to the Native Americans...

This wasn't warmongering. We were just exerting our Will to Power

	05-10-2002 00:14									#260
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exuse me spain wiped out all the socities in south america and britian in north america and canada we killed far less Natvie americans then Britain and Spain

	05-10-2002 00:14									#261
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The US attacking the Indians was just part of European thinking...ALL Europeans at that time thought white men were superior to Indians. Don't forget about Columbus. Yes, fighting the Indians was wrong and we acknowledge that now. And of course slavery was wrong also, but who brought that? The Dutch. It was brought by accident as a Dutch slave ship landed there accidentally. War Hawks were people who were outraged at the British who were taking American seamen prisoner, and they cried for war and they got it. But if you call fighting with Indians being a Warmonger, than I don't know what to call Britain.

	05-10-2002 00:29									#262
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Slavery brought by accident? OK, Dutch were the main traders, but the English (and early Americans and English are still the same, you can both be proud about them or not) knew slaves and it would have come to America without the Dutch too.

quote: ALL Europeans at that time thought white men were superior to Indians.

This is only partially true. It goes for the common man, but several, especially catholic, clergymen (not only Las Casas) thought differently. Not race was the criterium but faith (what was no less eurocentric and chauvinistic of course)

quote: Yes, fighting the Indians was wrong and we acknowledge that now.

From what I've experienced in discussions about the amerindian genocide(s), this is lamentably NOT the unquestioned shared opinion.

quote: I don't know what to call Britain

They heroically took the white man's burden on their shoulders...



(US-)Americans and Europeans were both very often acting completely immoral towards the "primitive" societies and one could probably go on for decades throwing mud on each other. Let's face it: In the attitude towards the weaker "primitive" peoples European and American behavior aren't very different.

	05-10-2002 00:43									#263
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well how about Britian and Africa and India

	05-10-2002 00:47									#264
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quote: exuse me spain wiped out all the socities in south america and britian in north america and canada we killed far less Natvie americans then Britain and Spain

and that makes it right?

funny kind of ethics you have there in the US. If one nation commits genocide, the US is allowed to do it too.

And you killed more native Americans than any other nation, other than Spain and Britain. Still makes you the 3rd worst Native American killers in history. Something to be proud of, eh?

	05-10-2002 00:49									#265
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quote: The US attacking the Indians was just part of European thinking...

The US was an independent nation. Can't blame it on us

quote: But if you call fighting with Indians being a Warmonger, than I don't know what to call Britain.

Britons were warmongers too. Same for Spain, Holland, France, etc. But also the US. You're no better than the colonial powers in that regard.

	05-10-2002 00:50									#266
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no i was responding to a post that something about americans killing Native Americans from somebody from Britian so i thought i would point that out no where in my post did i condone it.

	05-10-2002 02:26									#267
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so you admit your nation is a warmonger? at least in the wars with the natives?

	05-10-2002 03:05									#268
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod War Hawks were people who were outraged at the British who were taking American seamen prisoner, and they cried for war and they got it.

This from an American site:



'War Hawks

The Congress that met from 1811 to 1813 included a number of young and outspoken members who were foes of Great Britain and supporters of expansion by the United States. Western War Hawks, most notably the new Speaker of the House, Henry Clay of Kentucky, called for war against England and eyed Canada as a possible target of expansion. The Southern War Hawks, led by John C. Calhoun of South Carolina, cast longing glances at Texas and Florida.

In truth, British violations of American neutral rights (impressment, blockades, ship seizures and others) exerted little direct impact on the South and West. The core of the War Hawk agenda was expansion.

Correspondingly, New England and New York shipping and commercial interests-the people most directly impacted by the neutral rights violations-strongly opposed the war. They disliked losing ships to the British, but realized that war would completely shut down commerce.'

How does one expand without conflict? Politely ask inhabitants of other countries to move out of the way while you occupy their territory?

'Oh, excuse me Tecumseh, do you mind if I borrow your country? Chief Pontiac, are you sure you're using that stretch of land? I'd love to put a shopping mall there!'

This willingness to believe a lily-white history of the United States is sad beyond belief.

	05-10-2002 03:12									#269
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If you're going to quote a site, please list the url.

	05-10-2002 05:00									#270
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www.outofmyass.com