18-09-2002 19:16									#1
	CRADLE 1.33 (Final update) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Download CRADLE 1.33 from here!!!!

Well, it has been a wonderful ride...

This will be my last supported update for Cradle (for some time, at least - I will not close the door, but I am moving on to other things). So if players have any suggestions regarding adjusting the elements of the game, you will have to do them on your setup.

However, if there are issues with the 3 new SLICS in Cradle that create unforseen MAJOR (emphasis on major) bugs, I will post the files.

Please note: The new SLIC files offer a variety of effects that will affect gameplay. I realize that there may be certain SLIC files that players may not like. To disable a SLIC file, go into the following files.

Cradle 1.33, Ultra Gigantic, Global Empire, SETI Project - CRAG_script.slc
Birth of an Empire- CRARR_script.slc

At the bottom of the file, there is a list of the SLIC files. Locate the SLIC file that you want to disable and type
//
in front of the entry.

In addition, if you want to disable the Visible Wonders or the City Expansion SLICs, you will need to replace the 1.33 (CRA...)_tileimp.txt and the (CRA...)_gl_str.txt files with the ones that are found in Update 1.32.

With the addition of new blood in the Modding community, there probably will be the creation of many new SLICs, and there may be a call to add those SLICs to Cradle. I am not going to leave the forums, but I may ask for Cradle-compatible files if I see something interesting.

If you are a SLICcer, and you have something that you feel would be a great addition to Cradle, feel free to adapt it to Cradle. I will be more than glad to add it to my website as a separate add-on, but I will not be playtesting the files myself. It will be that SLIC creator's responsibility to make sure that the files are stable and are totally adapted to Cradle 1.33.

1.33 README
Unzip 1.33 Update into the Activision\Call To Power 2 folder.

Below are the update details. The .txt file updates are VERY minor - most of the additions are related to the new SLICS and the inclusion of Leonardo's Graphics.

SMALL FIXES
1. Great Library fixes regarding Ocean Faring and Spies/Revolutionaries.
2. Dromons no longer have transport ability.
3. Enable Advance for Longship is Ocean Faring instead of Hull Making.
4. Advanced Farms produce 20 Food on Plains instead of 15 Food.
5. Increased Research Cost for Republic and Caliphate governments.
6. Message fix for Bloodbath.
7. Fixes to the following SLICS - BetterAI, Air Units, Commerce Improvements, SoundFix, GoodMod.

NEW ADDITIONS
8. Added Leonardo's Graphics Mod.
9. Added Immortal Wombat's Visible Wonder Mod.
10. Added Martin's MessageIcon Mod.
11. Added Pedrunn's City Expansion Mod.

Many thanks to everyone who made this Mod possible, especially the talented SLICers. I hope you have enjoyed this Mod - I feel that Cradle is one of the best Mods for any civ-style game currently available.

Currently, I am working on a CTP2 Lord of the Rings Scenario, (based on Cradle files). However, I have not heard anything from any of the playtesters on this Scenario. If anyone wants to test the files, email or PM me. I have no idea if I made it too easy or too hard though, so realize that this is a work in process.

If there is little demand for this setup, I will table it.

Finally...The main reason why I am closing the door on Cradle is that I have played almost no CTP2 over the past 6 months (other than Succession) - and my kids have been using the computer more and more now, so I do not have much playing time. The time I do have has been playing 'Posiden' - and 'Emperor' has just been released (this game is better than 'Pharaoh', my all-time favorite game, so I know I will be playing this exclusively for some time).

But I am not leaving...I'm assimilated into the collective.

Dave Sobotka
aka hexagonian

Last edited by hexagonian on 18-09-2002 at 22:28

	18-09-2002 21:54									#2
	Remove this text

DP

	18-09-2002 21:57									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: In addition, if you want to disable the Visible Wonders or the City Expansion SLICs, you will need to replace the 1.33 (CRA...)_tileimp.txt and the (CRA...)_gl_str.txt files with the ones that are found in Update 1.32.

Actually there is no need for this. The data for the wonders TI sand and Cities TIs in the *_tileimp.txt can remain there that it wont cause any problem even if you dont have the Apolyton Tile Pack installed. Same thing with the *_gl_str.txt.
So just disabling the codes will be need to remove the feature.
Said to hear this will be the last update in a while
But great work with it. It looks already perfect.

	19-09-2002 01:50									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

Started playing last night. However at turn 35 it crashed to desktop. Re ran it several times from a saved game 2 turns before and auto save and it did it again every time, when I ended the turn. Will start a new game tonight to see if the same thing happens. Will keep the saved game if it continues and sent it to you to see if U can work out why.

Thanks for the work. I bought Medieval Total War last week, 4 days later I'm back to playing Cradle. Wonderful game. )

	19-09-2002 08:43									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Looks like message from the debugslic wich pop up messages to about slic errors. Yet most of these errors dont really affect the effect code. And if it is in a mod like craddle for sure it doesnt affect it.
This is feature is for modders and not players. So open the file

Call to Power II\ctp2_program\ctp\userprofile.txt

in the line 73 (more close to the bottom) you will find the line

code:

DebugSlic=Yes

	19-09-2002 14:08									#6
	Tired of ads?

Hex,
Sad to hear this may be the last Craddle. It really was the Mod that revived CTP2 for me.I'll download it as soon as i can. Good luck with Lotr, i'll certainly give that a bash when it's done.

	19-09-2002 20:40									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Actual I wouldn't include the *.til files in the download. Actual I don't want that my purple hill tile file is overwritten or later if the Apolyton Tile file contains the purple hills and I have this updated version it would overwrite the newer file. Another issure is including both files the gtset555.til file is actual not used by the game therefore there is no need to include this it just wasted room in the *.zip file.

-Martin

	20-09-2002 03:09									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Debug Slic was already at No.

I tried going to editor and reloading slic and it worked. I completed that turn and played another 40 turns last night. Temple of Solomon and Pyramids look really cool. I have 5 cities now with suburbs

	20-09-2002 05:51									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

unfortunately it seems there is no bonus gold/food/production from the goods.
can't find the reason why, but it seems those bonusses just get ignored. any idea hex or martin?

besides that i really love it!

	20-09-2002 06:36									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

i have to install it after i beat the tourny huh?

	20-09-2002 17:52									#11
	Support Apolyton

another problem is the unit updater, its ignoring militia units, only upgrading regular ones

	20-09-2002 18:50									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox another problem is the unit updater, its ignoring militia units, only upgrading regular ones

It should be upgrading - here is the coding that is present

enadv[26]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_BRONZE_WORKING);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[26]=UnitDB(UNIT_SPEARMAN_MILITIA);
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[26]=UnitDB(UNIT_HOPLITE_MILITIA);
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[26]=280;

enadv[27]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_IRON_WORKING);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[27]=UnitDB(UNIT_HOPLITE_MILITIA);
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[27]=UnitDB(UNIT_LEGION_MILITIA);
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[27]=525;

enadv[28]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_DARK_AGES);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[28]=UnitDB(UNIT_LEGION_MILITIA);
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[28]=UnitDB(UNIT_MAN_AT_ARMS_MILITIA)
;
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[28]=930;

enadv[29]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_RAILROAD);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[29]=UnitDB(UNIT_MAN_AT_ARMS_MILITIA)
;
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[29]=UnitDB(UNIT_INFANTRYMAN_MILITIA)
;
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[29]=1650;

enadv[30]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_MASS_PRODUCTION);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[30]=UnitDB(UNIT_INFANTRYMAN_MILITIA)
;
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[30]=UnitDB(UNIT_MACHINE_GUNNER_MILIT
IA);
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[30]=2100;

enadv[36]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_CHAOS_THEORY);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[36]=UnitDB(UNIT_MACHINE_GUNNER_MILIT
IA);
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[36]=UnitDB(UNIT_HOVER_INFANTRY_MILIT
IA);
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[36]=5000;

Did you miss a sequence - if so then your units will not upgrade to the next level. It means that you have to plan ahead.

BTW, you can have multiple upgrade opportunities for a unit by doing this on your setup.

If your unit upgrdes at Bronze Working, it will have an entry like this

enadv[26]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_BRONZE_WORKING);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[26]=UnitDB(UNIT_SPEARMAN_MILITIA);
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[26]=UnitDB(UNIT_HOPLITE_MILITIA);
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[26]=280;

Add an additional entry and change the enable advance

enadv[26]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_BARRACKS);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[26]=UnitDB(UNIT_SPEARMAN_MILITIA);
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[26]=UnitDB(UNIT_HOPLITE_MILITIA);
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[26]=280;

You will also have to change the number in the brackets

enadv[26]
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[26]
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[26]
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[26]

to however many entries that the Updater has

quote: i have to install it after i beat the tourny huh?

Yes, all the files will be overwritten

quote: unfortunately it seems there is no bonus gold/food/production from the goods. can't find the reason why, but it seems those bonusses just get ignored. any idea hex or martin?

Martin will have to look into this - the GoodMod.slc file has been updated.

	20-09-2002 19:07									#13
	Support Apolyton

well it doesn't work, i guess the problem is that after checking


enadv[0]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_BRONZE_WORKING);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[0]=UnitDB(UNIT_SPEARMAN);
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[0]=UnitDB(UNIT_HOPLITE);
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[0]=280;

it just stops looking through the later lines so never reaching the

enadv[26]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_BRONZE_WORKING);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[26]=UnitDB(UNIT_SPEARMAN_MILITIA);
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[26]=UnitDB(UNIT_HOPLITE_MILITIA);
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[26]=280;

	20-09-2002 21:33									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Martin will have to look into this - the GoodMod.slc file has been updated.

I used the CRA_goods.slc from the to 1.33 update in order to replace the version from Cradle 1.31. So I started a new game with the rest of the 1.31 files I was able to found the city of Hexapul it had a wonderful Buffulo in its radius. And as I moved the cursor over it I read in the status bar Imp. Landgood Class 4, so the good had the tile improvements on it that gives the actual effect.

Another thing I found Dave is that you didn't included my changes of the *tileimp.txt I made in your *tileimps.txt's so the AI can't terraform.

-Martin

	20-09-2002 22:43									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann Another thing I found Dave is that you didn't included my changes of the *tileimp.txt I made in your *tileimps.txt's so the AI can't terraform.

My fault...

I know I had done it - but in checking the files, the changes aren't there. I have a set of files at work and at home and have been bouncing files back and forth, so I must have picked up the wrong fileset - easy to happen because the two other SLIC additions to the update have changes to those files too.

Here's the updated files, and the main download has been fixed too.

	21-09-2002 04:50									#16
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hi David (Hexagonia).

Just wanted to say what a great mod Cradle is. It is nearly the ultimate civilisation TBS game, certainly for the past.

I like a good challenge, dont mind long games and like something that needs detailed thought and advanced planning. The CTP2 base is great because it is easily the most streamlined and effecient game I have ever played. The city management interfaces are just so easy one wonders what the new crop of designers have been smoking when designing games like Civ3 and Medieval Total War.

I know you said no more mods but I just want to float some ideas to you to introduce more balancers, ie things the human can do to counter the AI bonuses at advanced difficulty levels.

Diplomacy. The code at the moment basically means the AI just hates you more and more and eventually you get all of them attacking you. It would be nice if the AI kept to ceasefires occassionally and if there was a fear factor, ie, when you get one down on its knees it should be prepared to trade techs and gold for a ceasefire. At the moment it sticks its finger up and just lets you do your dirtiest. The AI's should also be a bit more responsive to bribery, certainly early in history.

Piracy. Would be nice if you could actually profit from piracy and see how much you get.

Capturing advances from cities is already being worked on and I hope it sorts itself out. It would be a nice addition to the PW and Gold bonus you get for capturing cities.

I retire in 9 weeks and after that, would be happy to try to experiment with coding if given a few pointers.

Thanks again for a great game

	21-09-2002 17:38									#17
	Shopping mall at start? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I started my first game of 1.33 and for some reason intermittently I was given the option of building a shopping mall from land tiles with public works except it cost nothing as was of no benefit. I built it anyway (just cos I could) and when I put the mouse over it, it says something about the agency wonder. So what gives here? Also I pillaged it but it didn't go away (graphically at least).

	21-09-2002 17:46									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

noticed the ability to build them as well, though i never did so

	21-09-2002 18:42									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I believe this is an issue tied into the Wonder code.

The coding temporaily gives the ADVANCE_SUBNEURAL_AD (labeled Rational Thought) to enable the Visible Wonder to be built. I saw that it happened on the first turn and then it disappeared on turn 2 - I'm assuming that it will show up during the course of the game. There are limited slots in the Tile Improvement palette, so the first one on the list (Agency) shows up.

The AI is not programmed to build them though.

I do not know if there is a workaround to this - Ben, do you have any suggestions???

	21-09-2002 18:59									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I looked into the CRA_tileimp.txt and all the wonder tile improvements are Level 3 tile improvements that means they will show up on the button bank if you have subneural ads. Actual you shouldn't have this advance I have two event handlers in my code that removes the advances in Pedrun's code you find these event handlers two. It shouldn't be there. A first step to prevent the wonder improvements from appearing on the button bank is to turn them in Level 4 improvements like the good improvements.

code:

## 53 ############################

TILEIMP_WONDER_CODE_OF_HAMMURABI {
   Icon ICON_TILEIMP_OUTLET_MALL
   Tooltip TOOLTIP_TILEIMP_SELECT_ATM2_BUTTON
   Statusbar STATUSBAR_TILEIMP_SELECT_ATM2_BUTTON
   Level 3
   Class:ATM
   GLHidden

	21-09-2002 19:21									#21
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by stankarp Hi David (Hexagonia). Just wanted to say what a great mod Cradle is. It is nearly the ultimate civilisation TBS game, certainly for the past.

I'm glad you are enjoying the Mod. It was a lot of work, to say the least... I started the Mod in Jan 2001, so it has taken almost two years of work. (note: unedited post said 2000 - I started it in 2001)

To be honest, a lot of the credit for Cradle has to go to people on these forums. There were also a lot of early discussion on these forums regarding how to alter the txt files, so a lot of what is in Cradle is based on those discussions. And a lot of the credit does have to go to the SLICers, because so much of my Mod is tied into their files.

The things I can take (most of the) credit for is the tech tree/wonders/buildings/governments/unit progession and many of the graphic elements. And I did do a lot of the balancing, but the thing to note is that even though the default AI was weak, the default CTP2 game was actually structured very well, and I worked off of that structure.

quote: Originally posted by stankarp I like a good challenge, dont mind long games and like something that needs detailed thought and advanced planning. The CTP2 base is great because it is easily the most streamlined and effecient game I have ever played. The city management interfaces are just so easy one wonders what the new crop of designers have been smoking when designing games like Civ3 and Medieval Total War.

I do think that CTP2 has an excellent system that reduces the tedium factor.

So I take it that you tried civ3???

quote: Originally posted by stankarp Diplomacy. The code at the moment basically means the AI just hates you more and more and eventually you get all of them attacking you. It would be nice if the AI kept to ceasefires occassionally and if there was a fear factor, ie, when you get one down on its knees it should be prepared to trade techs and gold for a ceasefire. At the moment it sticks its finger up and just lets you do your dirtiest. The AI's should also be a bit more responsive to bribery, certainly early in history.

This is one area that civ3 is superior to CTP2, although in defense of Cradle, the diplomacy model in Cradle fits into history. You can make deals with the AI and can often have periods of stability, but you cannot let your guard down for a second.

Consider that ancient civs were very aggressive to one another, and were more driven to warfare based on ethnic/religious differences, so having a hair-trigger AI feels right. We tend to look at things with a 21st century mindset, so we project that mindset onto the past. Although we have had the most violent and bloody wars in history over the last 100 years, it is because our technology has finally caught up to our hatreds. Throughout history, the hatred has always found an outlet.

History is a bloody mess...

Having said all that, I would still like to see a more cooporative AI developed.

quote: Originally posted by stankarp Piracy. Would be nice if you could actually profit from piracy and see how much you get.

I know that you are supposed to get a benefit from Piracy, but it is unclear.

quote: Originally posted by stankarp Capturing advances from cities is already being worked on and I hope it sorts itself out. It would be a nice addition to the PW and Gold bonus you get for capturing cities.

This should be an easy addition to Cradle when the file is finished, so keep watching the thread where this is being worked on.

quote: Originally posted by stankarp I retire in 9 weeks and after that, would be happy to try to experiment with coding if given a few pointers.

Enjoy your retirement - I have 25 years to go...

	21-09-2002 19:35									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

:
Hex, In the second time i sent you the city expansion i must have sent you yhe wrong file wich was the version 1.0 that used to give subneural ads (rational thought) to the player, finish regular improvements when they shouldnt and didnt removed the ruins after 100 turns passed.
I feel so bad to dirty the name of the great Craddle mod with such a stupid mistake.

But here is the right version of the city expansion code with the Craddle settings as you requested. I would like you to test it while loading to check syntax errors (that very unlikely ill be in) before adding to the update 1.33

PS: I have just seen the IW wonder code that has a flaw giving subneural ads for a whole turn to a player when a wonder is created. I can fix it. But I hope to talk to IW before. After all he may not like someone noising in his code without permission.

NOTE: stankarp, thats probably why you received rational thought when conquering a city from my advance from city conquer code. With this CityXcode and the new improvemnt in IW's code it wont happen again.

PS: Sorry all.

Attachment: cra_cityexpansion.slc
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

Last edited by Pedrunn on 21-09-2002 at 19:40

	22-09-2002 06:03									#23
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Thanks for the response Hex(aka David).

I have Civ 3 in the box gathering dust. Like 70% of people that played it I wanted stack combat to streamline game play but its not in PTW. I saw one review that says it bogs down, bloody oath it does. It just gets so tedious i have only finished 1 game. it needs stack combat and better interfaces otherwise its just boring after a while.

Regarding the AI, I dont mind being attacked by the AI, but in hostory, many sides sued for peace after loosing a battle, and many potential conflicts were settled by bribery.

With piracy, a small bonus for looting a improved tile would also be good. Many ancient conflicts came from raiding parties on a looting spree. The crusaders were really good at breaking ceasdefires to loot something because they needed the cash.

8 Weeks now to go )

	22-09-2002 06:21									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Piracy gives money despite what i had first stated in a thread a couple of days ago. I re-tested and gold is added in the next turn.

But i think you mean pillage (destroy a Tile Improvement). This is very, very easy to do less than 5 minutes. How much gold/PW do you want from pillage? Just give me the value

	22-09-2002 11:09									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

Pedrunn,

Can you calculate a factor based on initially half what was originally paid for in PWs but it devalues more as time goes on - the longer the tile is there, the less value it returns (depreciation). This is if we pillage either an enemy's tiles or our own!
While we're on this, can we also get the same payback in PWs when a tile is replaced or upgraded. So, for instance, if we go upto a superior type of farm or change to a mine, that we get a portion of the original value of the farm back?
Also, while we're on about tiles, is it possible to cancel a tile that you have laid down in the same turn with no loss of PWs? Sometimes its easy to lay down a tile in the wrong place accidentally, or you might change your mind about where to put it or what to put down.

Last edited by The Rusty Gamer on 22-09-2002 at 11:58

	22-09-2002 11:16									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hi Pedrunn,

Your better than a help desk

How about a simple code that gives you 20% of the value of the tile improvement you pillage back in PW.

With piracy, any chance of a message saying how much you acquire? I was thrilled when I got the message saying we had learnt to build ships when we captured a Persian city on a mountain 25 squares from the nearest coast hex

	22-09-2002 11:57									#27
	Bug fixed! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Pedrunn,

I downloaded your slic file and the bug appears to be fixed. No more shopping malls at the start. Thanks.

Hexagonia,

Thanks for a great mod. I've never got completely through a game yet cos a new version comes along so the old save is incompatable, however I've always enjoyed it.

I noticed that we often start with different techs. Is that a random thing or is it related to the civ we choose or is it a standard feature in all mods?

	22-09-2002 13:37									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by stankarp I was thrilled when I got the message saying we had learnt to build ships when we captured a Persian city on a mountain 25 squares from the nearest coast hex

looks as if you found noahs arch

	22-09-2002 16:49									#29
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: While we're on this, can we also get the same payback in PWs when a tile is replaced or upgraded. So, for instance, if we go upto a superior type of farm or change to a mine, that we get a portion of the original value of the farm back?

This code already exists. I made it for ADG you can find it some thread down here. We just need to fill the amount for each TI.

quote: How about a simple code that gives you 20% of the value of the tile improvement you pillage back in PW.

As i said five minutes to make it. But same problem as replace gives PW problem we need to fill the the bonus for every TI.

I wont do this but i can make editing really friendly. So any takers to do this?
What you think, dave?

	22-09-2002 20:12									#30
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn : Hex, In the second time i sent you the city expansion i must have sent you yhe wrong file wich was the version 1.0 that used to give subneural ads (rational thought) to the player, finish regular improvements when they shouldnt and didnt removed the ruins after 100 turns passed. I feel so bad to dirty the name of the great Craddle mod with such a stupid mistake.

Ah, this is probably why I've noticed that I will have the advance "rational thought" at times and at other times my opponent (LAN Game) will have it...I was wondering about that.

Has Hex's main Cradle 1.33 download been updated with the right file version yet?

If it hasn't, then Pedrunn - Where to I download your .slc file fix to (which directory/sub directory)? Do I just download it or is there something else I have to do with it? Thanks!