25-09-2002 12:53									#1
	Do women really like to be treated like crap? Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm starting to realize this. Unfortunately I was raised to respect women. I have a hard time treating women like crap . But I'm learning.

Treating them nice has got me nowhere. Except the nice guy label which is a death sentence for an eligible bachelor. Next girl who calls me a nice guy is going to force me to embarass her in public some way (well more embarrassing than her being seen with me at least)

	25-09-2002 16:13									#2
	Re: Do women really like to be treated like crap? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Dissident (well more embarrassing than her being seen with me at least)

is there anything more embarrassing than that?

	25-09-2002 16:44									#3
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Dissident, you're in trouble. I have the nice guy label too. Damn it! Women always talk to me about their ex-boyfriends and stuff. And when they start calling to my cell.. and start talkign about boring stuff like what women are talking to each other.. nothing important in other words, I go crazy! Only thing missing is 'hey girlfriend'. I don't know why.
I got my hands on some Rocco Siffredi tapes though.. I'm learning!

	25-09-2002 16:50									#4
	Suffering from ads?

Let me guess. You consider anything short of "Let's get naked" boring, right?

	25-09-2002 16:53									#5
	Tired of ads?

pekka, you're in prison?

women like attention, sometimes it seems they don't care what kind of attention

	25-09-2002 16:53									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

You don't treat them crap to avoid the nice guy label, just make carefully placed friendly/jokey insults or impolite but amusing comments.

Failing that, lear at every women you see, that will tarnish your reputation good and proper.

	25-09-2002 16:59									#7
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quote: Failing that, lear at every women you see, that will tarnish your reputation good and proper.

I'd mock you, but the challenge is gone.

	25-09-2002 17:07									#8
	Suffering from ads?

Treating them like crap may work if you goal is to get any woman Diss. If your goal is a little more focused Dolphin is right, irrevently take the p1ss a lot, putting you in "the nice guy really" category, but not the "nice guy" category.

	25-09-2002 17:13									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Mr. President I'd mock you, but the challenge is gone.

In case you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic.

	25-09-2002 17:15									#10
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If you want to score with women, there is a clinic on the matter in the movie "The Saint". Just watch how Val Kilmer stalks and seduces Elisabeth Shue. It's hilarious, but also true.

	25-09-2002 17:40									#11
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this is one of the more crazy things men say
when they don't understand women.

women do NOT like being treated like crap.

"nice guy" sometimes is "boring guy"

most of us just don't like to be bored... some so called nice guys turn out to not have anything interesting to do or say.
I like intelligent men who have more inside their heads than maners . I also like passionate men who have
opinions and know how to talk about the things that make them passionate.

the other thing that is misleading is that we generally
don't like someone always agreeing or up our xxx.
we like to have a good disagreement and debate.

you gotta have your own interests and leave us some space. no one likes someone always in their face and
under foot. but on the other hand we don't like to be ignored or neglected either...

but no one likes to be treated like crap..
should i say that again...
we might have different reasons for not going for the
so called "nice guy" but it isn't because we want to be treated bad.

on the other hand...........
you all know that its death to a woman to be thought
the "nice girl" that usually means shes got a nice personallity but looks homely... which means we are everyones friend but no one asks you out ...

	25-09-2002 17:53									#12
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quote: Originally posted by boann on the other hand........... you all know that its death to a woman to be thought the "nice girl" that usually means shes got a nice personallity but looks homely... which means we are everyones friend but no one asks you out ...

Its a well-known fact that men prefer bad naughty girls over Ms Prim and Proper.

	25-09-2002 17:56									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

My most.... successful male friend does not treat women like sh*t, at least not until AFTER he has broken up with them. This shows he is not a perfect model to study, but he certainly knows how to start a relationship. Unfortunately this usually means the girl will fixate on him after the break-up too, with often very nasty results.

I hear some guys saying "Oh yeah? Well if I knew what he did to begin with, I could do better than him." I don't doubt it. Thus I will try my best to tell you what he does, from my observations over the last 5 years.

He flatters EVERY girl he doesn't hate. He has some little "thing" with every girl he has contact with - some little personal thing, a saying or topic of interest that they feel makes them and them alone special to him. He will talk about himself and his own likes/dislikes/hobbies VERY often (in fact he does this with everyone, and I find it annoying, meself), but it draws them into his world. This guy is not particularly exciting. His most exciting attributes are that he is a predominant member in the University Drama Club and that he is an amateur stand-up comedian. Otherwise he is a hardcore wrestling fan, failing Drama student, loves TV, does little work at Uni, is on a benefit and rarely leaves his house. He plays no sports, is certainly not a typical squarish male model etc etc. But with his stories he draws these girls into his world. Most of his ex-girlfriends become (shock HORROR!) wrestling fans shortly before they start going out. This to me is incredible, but it is because he talks about his love for it, and talks about it with such passion that it makes him seem more interesting than, say, me.

Having said all of that, I would LOVE to hear a woman's perspective on such behaviour (on the remote chance a woman reads my post), and whether I have it all wrong.

He has the self-confidence to be noticeable and to show you what he is, and this (for SOME reason) girls seem to like.

Now if anyone could tell me WHY they like this, I would be happy.

	25-09-2002 17:56									#14
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Its a well-known fact that men prefer bad naughty girls over Ms Prim and Proper.

Au contraire. I like the challenge of turning Ms Prim to the dark side.

	25-09-2002 18:25									#15
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"Its a well-known fact that men prefer bad naughty girls over Ms Prim and Proper. "

"Au contraire. I like the challenge of turning Ms Prim to the dark side."



the truth be known....men like them to be both.
Im a woman and thats one thing I do know
for certain about men.

	25-09-2002 18:28									#16
	Got spare money?

women dont like to be treated like crap. what kinda question is that?

it's funny when people attribute their failures with women to the old mantra "it's because i'm a nice guy"

	25-09-2002 18:33									#17
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Most Women like when men take initiatives and decisions.

But of course this a general point of view.

	25-09-2002 18:43									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

usually "nice guy" = you cant excite them, make them feel aliiiiiiiive


no wonder they're gonna talk about their ex-boyfriends to you. even their memory is more exciting than a "nice guy"

	25-09-2002 19:06									#19
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When they tell you about heir ex-boyfriend, hear them a while, then stop then and ask them (with a viril voice and gazing at her manly)
"Eh, Bab. This old craps. Now things about present. Thinks about me !"

If she don't run away screaming loudly, or don't fall laughting to death, you got a good point !

	25-09-2002 19:12									#20
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MrWhereitsat

I don't know what the women will say but my ( old married guy's) take on your friend is that he has confidence and thats 90% of the battle. You envy his success but do you " go up to bat" as often as him or do you just stand back and watch him operate.



Oh and girls don't want to be treated like crap . . . they just want a confident guy. Watch out for the term " nice guy" . . . it can really mean a nice guy but its usually code for " boring" or not attracted to him.

Some girls -- well you won't be to their taste ( I mean . . are you attracted to EVERY girl you see?) The key is to be approaching enough women to find one's to click with.

Back to MrWhereitsat's friend . . . he probably gets shot down loads of times but if he is confident like you say, he just moves on. By being out there, he notices who is into him a bit and gravitates to them. You can be shot down a dozen times but if at the end of the day you have found an attractive girl that likes to be with you . . . well thats pretty darn good

	25-09-2002 19:13									#21
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quote: Originally posted by boann "nice guy" sometimes is "boring guy"

I do think the 'boring guy' label differs from the 'nice guy' label. I mean, why would they spend time with you at all, if they think you're boring.

	25-09-2002 19:16									#22
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Women don't like to be treated like crap. Nice guys come in many shades, from the ones who bend over backwards for women (or maybe even other men) to those who hold their ground firmly when it is necessary. There are also the boring nice guys and the interesting nice guys.

If you happen to be a boring nice guy without a character, you need to change. Quickly.

	25-09-2002 19:36									#23
	Got spare money?

Hmm. Reading this thread again, I realise that I was in a "share the knowledge" mode for some reason with my last post. I am sane now.

Meaning I can return to my much-lamented "nice guy" classification. I am the one girls I know b*tch about their a**hole boyfriends to and the one they go out with when they want to have some fun dancing, drinking, playing pool etc, but not the one who ever gets anywhere. Nice is not boring in this case, nice is just not attractive in that way. Some. How.

Confidence may be an issue, but I'm not sure my friend gets shot down. It's more often he gets hit ON. Now that I think about it, by a lot of supposed lesbians as well. Figure that one out. I can't. I'll ask him next time I see him (that'll shock him! ), but he's the sort of guy to tell you EVERYthing, and I'm a close enough friend he tells me all the "illegal" things relationshipwise that he does, and the "forbidden" crushes. I can't recall him telling me about being turned down once.

'Tis an interesting puzzle, and a lot of my 5 years knowing him has gone towards pondering over it - you see how little headway I have got so far? This weekend I will finally go to the annual Drama Club ball for the University. I will be seeing him and all those like him (girls and guys) in one place together for perhaps the first real time. This might make an interesting study.....

	25-09-2002 19:51									#24
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I saw the title and immediately thought "God, Spink is such an idiot".

	25-09-2002 19:52									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I had a whole bunch of women hitting on me also. I reckon you need three things:

1. Character
2. Confidence
3. Niceness

There are other factors such as:

- having a good heart, i.e., compassionate towards those less fortunate than you
- likes pets/kids
- having a passion about a hobby or an interest

	25-09-2002 19:58									#26
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Nonono. Those things are all well and good, but what you REALLY need is to be able to let everyone know you HAVE these things without seeming conceited. Now THERE'S the trick.

	25-09-2002 20:09									#27
	Tired of ads?

I try to be nice to girls in general, because I already have an awesome girlfriend, and so being just a friend is fine with me. However, with the ones I like, I try to keep things flirtatious, so that if I break up, I'd have a few girls to pick me up on the rebound.

It's not having a cheating heart or nothing, it's just having an insurance policy.

	25-09-2002 20:12									#28
	Suffering from ads?

Felch - you sound just like my friend for a moment there!

	25-09-2002 20:19									#29
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I think gay men and women have a lot in common here. Many gay men I know gravitate to men who are rotten for them and treat them in a manner less than they deserve.

Personally, I think it has a lot to do with self-esteem and image problems. When it's pounded into your head that you're a second-class citizen and not equal to the "top dogs," there is a desire to seek their acceptance and love. And if you can get a guy who treats people badly to love you, isn't that an even bigger victory?

But it never works out as planned, alas...

I also think this is part of why so many racial minorities in the gay community seek the white man as their ideal mate...part of the "gaining approval from the superior" psyche. It's really unfortunate to watch.

	25-09-2002 20:23									#30
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Boris - it doesn't make it easy to understand why, when said a**holes treat everyone INCLUDING their gfs (or bfs) bad, they are still clung on to. Particularly if their partners know they are treated badly enough to complain to others about it often.