28-09-2002 05:42									#61
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's not a weak argument. You know which way I want the balance of power (I'm assuming you understand that this is balance between gov & private sector) to swing...and the current method of "globalisation" drives the wrong way.

	28-09-2002 05:45									#62
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Companies have been freed to shop among locales. It provides an artificial penalty for higher taxes (on top of the ones I'm sure you both believe are inherent). It makes government the ***** of the transnats, and I don't like it.

	28-09-2002 06:52									#63
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Che - as long as there is a free parliament and a free media - you act through them. Civil disobedience should be enacted only in extreme cases. For instance, if there's an actual current threat to democracy.

What you're doing , is using civil disobedience to obstruct the talks and planning.

If we use civil disobedience every time we feel like it - why do we need a parliament and media for?

	28-09-2002 07:53									#64
	Increase Your PM Length

Siro

You are a poster I generaly like, but the "Mainstream Media" is totaly owned by the corporations. And in this country most of the politications are "Leased" by the corporations (they would never "sell" there vote because they could only do that once.

	28-09-2002 08:03									#65
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I would like anybody to propose an alternative to globalization please speak up now...

*silence*

Umm I am waiting...

Go ahead and protest.. sure... but don't cause havoc or problems. If that occurs everybody who takes part should be rounded up and sent to jail for a while.

I completely disagree with the misled anti-US, anti-civilized world, anti-western, anti-capitalist, anti-common sense movement. There just a bunch of movments looking to rip people off.

	28-09-2002 08:25									#66
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: There just a bunch of movments looking to rip people off.

Thats funny seems that is what globalization is doing...

Back to the IMF (Immoral Monetary fraud) protest and educate it's a global media now. Sooner or later even the back woods people will begin to understand who profits from this...

	28-09-2002 08:41									#67
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quote: Siro You are a poster I generaly like, but the "Mainstream Media" is totaly owned by the corporations.

How does this contradict you liking me?

And thanks

quote: And in this country most of the politications are "Leased" by the corporations (they would never "sell" there vote because they could only do that once.

Set up your own media why don't you?

Set up a free broadcasting corporation for commies.

And then - you shall become your own huge commie corporation and will take over the world using thier own tools (globalization)!!!

How's my plan?

	28-09-2002 08:41									#68
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

All right. Now give us a few billion dollars and we'll do it.

	28-09-2002 09:21									#69
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Che - as long as there is a free parliament and a free media - you act through them.

Asked and answered!

We have neither a free parliment nor a free media. This is why civil disobedience is necessary.

	28-09-2002 10:07									#70
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Frogger All right. Now give us a few billion dollars and we'll do it.

Its done allready. Why do you think China is trying to control the NET anyway?

	28-09-2002 10:20									#71
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Che - well if your parliament ain't free and your media isn't free - then by all means - HA HA HA!!!


Is it possible that the small insignificant and currupted Israeli parliament is more free than yours?

Is it possible that our media is more free than yours?

In your face - Israeli hating commies

	28-09-2002 10:21									#72
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quote: All right. Now give us a few billion dollars and we'll do it

Start small.

Sell advertisement space to large corporations and tobbaco companies.

	28-09-2002 10:31									#73
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Asher Yes, indeed, because we all know without these protests most people on Apolyton wouldn't know about the IMF, and now most people on Apolyton think the IMF is evil. oh conflicting emotions

Once again, you demonstrate the inability to understand a basic concept.

This thread started with a discussion about protests and has led to discussions about globalization. If there had not been any protests then it is highly likely that some computer geeks would never know about the IMF because certain people don't care about what happens to others.

The protests make more people aware of the issues. Some of these people will agree with the protesters, others will not. The awareness has still been raised either way and saying that awareness has been raised does not mean that everyone now hates the IMF.

There exceptions of course. Some people will sit in their daddy's big house, b!tch about the fact that they can't drive daddy's SUV downtown because of them damn protesters and refuse to make any attempt to understand the issues. Not that I am suggesting that this applies to you Asher.

	28-09-2002 10:37									#74
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This thread for some reason made me think of two leftist democrat socialists from different countries bickering: "Our government is bigger than your government!"

	28-09-2002 10:40									#75
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: The protests make more people aware of the issues.

Nope - they don't.

Threads make people aware of issues.

Protests make people aware of annoying protestors.

quote: refuse to make any attempt to understand the issues.

You conviniently assume that if they will understand the issue they will take the point of view of the protestors and will also legitimize the acts of civil disobedience occuring in these protests / riots.

	28-09-2002 10:44									#76
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People will most certainly not listen to dumbasses who violently trash things, or idiots who put on gas masks or write idiotic slogans.

This only repels people.

I'm sorry, but I'd rather be opressed and stolen from by a polite man in a suite, than to live freely with a bunch of hoodlams and dumbasses.

	28-09-2002 10:48									#77
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quote: This thread started with a discussion about protests and has led to discussions about globalization.

The posters in this thread divide into 3 groups:

50% who are already convinced of anti-globalization and post rants.
48% who posted a one time rant about damn protestors, and left without ever caring.
2% who decided to ignore the stupidity reflected by the protests, and see if there is any basis to what the idiots are chanting about.

	28-09-2002 10:51									#78
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Siro,

rallies make it to the news.

Apolyton threads don't



now publicity it is, whatever the news say.

	28-09-2002 13:22									#79
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Anybody go out to see the protestors today? Quite a flameout. 500 in pretty much one fell swoop. I couldn't go out until, unfortuneatly, until some time past noon. By then, there was nobody around.

An interesting tidbit I got from an Albany, NY mounted policeman camping out behind the Whitehouse, was that there were substantial numbers of protestors who were pretty much "volunteering" to be arrested.

Also, the perimeters have been expanded a couple of blocks more to include up to 21st street going E-W, so apparently they're expecting mass havoc.

I also took pictures, which I can post after I have them developed...

	28-09-2002 13:45									#80
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Yeah, that's why the movement kept growing until 9/11.

What you went from two people to three?

	28-09-2002 13:49									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov quote: refuse to make any attempt to understand the issues. You conviniently assume that if they will understand the issue they will take the point of view of the protestors and will also legitimize the acts of civil disobedience occuring in these protests / riots.

Not at all. People who look at the issues will reach different conclusions based on their political backgrounds. As I said before, some will agree, some won't.

But looking at the issues is different from the knee-jerk response of "these guys are just idiots, screw them."

	29-09-2002 06:05									#82
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I look at the issues, and think about them.

But I think that those guys who think that walking around in gas masks or stoping traffic will help are just idiots. Screw them.

Just because I agree / disagree with their goal, doesn't mean I think their action is justified or not annoying.

	29-09-2002 08:01									#83
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Those protesters don't know what they are protesting about. They are just acting stupid and want attention.

*Spiro Agnew voice* It is time that the freedom loving people of the world start standing up for themselves. The great silent majority must ruin the vocal stupid minority. The great silent majority loves globalization and this little immature minority cannot do anything to change that. They don't want to solve any issues but want more people to suffer.

	29-09-2002 10:12									#84
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Spiro Agnew was so corrupt that he had to resign the Vice Presidency of the US, and he then had to plead guilty to income tax evasion.

I like your heroes, Fez:

1) Franco: brutal dictator and thug, rose to power through the aid of Hitler and Mussolini
2) Augusto Pinochet: war criminal
3) McCarthy: idiot conspiracy theorist, disgraced due to lack of evidence after his own version of the Salem witch trials
4) Richard Nixon: the only President to have to resign, due to his illegal activities
5) Spiro Agnew: (AFAIK) the only Vice President to have to resign, due to corruption and income-tax evasion charges, convicted criminal

	29-09-2002 11:12									#85
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Wow, what a letdown.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2002Sep28.html

3,000 - 5,000? That's it? On a beautiful day like today?

	29-09-2002 14:51									#86
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I was around and about tonight and only saw protestors at the 2000 Penn area, which I also happened to take pictures of. Of course I was out only until 10ish, so maybe I missed some latenight mayhem.

Also, why doesn't anyone protest during of the middle of the day? What are all the protestors doing during the day besides getting naked in front of a Gap?

Overall so far

Last edited by Timexwatch on 29-09-2002 at 14:59

	29-09-2002 17:51									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Spiro Agnew was so corrupt that he had to resign the Vice Presidency of the US, and he then had to plead guilty to income tax evasion.

I was just joking around... I don't actually like Agnew... he wasn't a good vice president.

quote: 1) Franco: brutal dictator and thug, rose to power through the aid of Hitler and Mussolini

My grandfather fought in his army during the civil war, and Franco rebuilt the economy.

quote: 2) Augusto Pinochet: war criminal

He rebuilt the Chilean economy.

quote: 3) McCarthy: idiot conspiracy theorist, disgraced due to lack of evidence after his own version of the Salem witch trials

I don't think so. McCarthy is not on my list.

quote: 4) Richard Nixon: the only President to have to resign, due to his illegal activities

Illegal activities? Not like any president hasn't done something illegal. Richard Nixon was probably one of the best presidents because of his foreign affairs record.

quote: 5) Spiro Agnew: (AFAIK) the only Vice President to have to resign, due to corruption and income-tax evasion charges, convicted criminal

Never was Agnew on my list.

You'll notice that you are BSing too many people around here by adding several people on the list I do not like.

Anyways, so far the very low outcome of protesters shows how little support anti-common sense and anti-capitalist groups have.

	29-09-2002 21:15									#88
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My deep salute to comrade Boshko, a man brave enough to challeng the Apolyton reactionary beast and create a thread about some things that have to be heard. People should stop hiding behind their index and start wondering why, in such a perfect world, where even communism is extinc, all those people around the world are crying for justice and peace.

quote: The first thing that comes up when a regular jo thinks about anti-globalization protest, is not their messages, but the fact that they are hoodlams and property wreckers.

Like those Palestinian kids in Gaza, throwing stones at the Israeli tanks?

Some people around here irritate me with their hypocrisy. At the same time where your own government are about to go to a war which will result to the deaths of hundrends of thousands of innocent civilians and to the misery of millions of others, and all that in your name, you are ranting about people who wreck unimportant pieces of property and furthermore do so without invoking your name for it.

Who should you be angry with?

quote: If we use civil disobedience every time we feel like it - why do we need a parliament and media for?

We want no bourgeois parliament - we want no bourgeois media! So now can we use civil disobedience as much as we like?

quote: We have neither a free parliment nor a free media. This is why civil disobedience is necessary.

Alternatively, che's answer covers me too...

As for the riot police, let me quote a slogan from the streets (it rhymes in Greek)

quote: In Afghanistan the people are hungry, drop in some riot police men; they can eat them!

	29-09-2002 21:57									#89
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

about to go to a war which will result to the deaths of hundrends of thousands of innocent civilians and to the misery of millions of others

You are pulling numbers out of your ass and are discrediting your argument by doing so.

Also, the real story is that 3,000 - 5,000 protestors is a pretty pathetic turnout--the impression immediately created is that the movement has died out.

"you are ranting about people who wreck unimportant pieces of property"

I live 2 blocks from where these "unimportant" pieces of property were destroyed on Friday.

	30-09-2002 00:48									#90
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Axi... your beliefs are about a hundred years out of date.