30-09-2002 01:40									#91
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Is it possible that the small insignificant and currupted Israeli parliament is more free than yours? Is it possible that our media is more free than yours?

Actually, your parlimentary system is better than ours. You have a more representational system, so even minority viewpionts can get a hearing. Our system is designed so that minority viewpoints are excluded.

Your media, as skewed as it is, is far less skewed thean ours. Heck, you guys can get access to media critical of Israel. We don't. We certainly don't get any media that's critical of our own country. There's nothing in the US that comes close to Ha'aretz (or however it's spelled).

The point, however, is that protests bring attention to small movements who could otherwise not get their message out. At protests, there are newspapers and leaflets and booksellers and a lot of info gets out that way.

	30-09-2002 03:22									#92
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Like those Palestinian kids in Gaza, throwing stones at the Israeli tanks?

Nope, they are there to take the bullets for hooded militants with AK 47s.

Or just to have innocent child like fun, as always.

quote: Some people around here irritate me with their hypocrisy. At the same time where your own government are about to go to a war which will result to the deaths of hundrends of thousands of innocent civilians and to the misery of millions of others, and all that in your name,

He can see the future!!!



His government is about to free millions of men of the opression of a psycho tyrant, and make the whole region one step closer to democracy.

And his government is doing that in his name - he authorised them to do so in democratic elections

quote: you are ranting about people who wreck unimportant pieces of property and furthermore do so without invoking your name for it.

The punks that trash property (which I'm sure is important for it's respective owners) (but hey, here's your hypocracy, when you pretend to be all nice and caring, but when you like it, any piece of property becomes "unimportant") are not doing it in my name.

Infact - they completely do NOT have the mandate of the people, as they do not have even a notable minority in the parliament.

They do what they do, ignoring the due processes of the democratic system.

quote: Who should you be angry with?

Hmm...
The government which is doing what I elected it to do...
Or some punks trashing my "unimportant" property because they think it is going to save the world....

	30-09-2002 04:45									#93
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Nobody told Bush to start a war with Iraq. It was his idea, to the point of obsession, from the beginning. Even if we set aside for the moment the fact that he was not elected by a majority, absolute or relative, it is known that by now the majority of Americans do not support the war (according to a poll, IIRC, it is 82% against right now). So THAT government is not doing what it was elected for. It is doing what it wants regardless of the will of the people.

As for MY government, I hope that they won't be crazy engough to assist Bush in any way. MY government is implementing policies that do not have the support of the people as well and the only reason they got elected was (apart from suspected fraud) the fear that the opposition party would implement even more unpopular policies.

YOUR government isn't dong what it was elected for either, Siro. They were supposed to secure peace for the region, but all they brought is war, oppression and insecurity. Right now the only reason they have the support of your people is that they prey on people's insecurity and fear - a mental blackmail of sorts.

quote: Axi... your beliefs are about a hundred years out of date.

...says the living attavism, who idolises a man whose beliefs were 500 years out of date (Franco, who brought the Middle Ages back to Spain, 5 centuries after the Rennaisance begun)

quote: You are pulling numbers out of your ass and are discrediting your argument by doing so.

Tell me please how many Iraqis have died in the Gulf War and because of the war and the sanctions? How many will those be if you're going for a full-scale invasion this time? If this is pulling numbers out of my ass, then so be it; I am not going to wait for the war to happen and then count the victims to see if I was right or wrong.

quote: I live 2 blocks from where these "unimportant" pieces of property were destroyed on Friday.

Considering the proportions, I live "2 blocks away" from where you're planning your next war (and just "one block away" from where your had your last one). The possibility of a full scale war in the Middle East affects my life intimately.

So if you want to prevent people from messing with your blasted property, stop messing with the whole damn world! In all ways: economically, politically, militarily and ecologically.

	30-09-2002 04:48									#94
	Support Apolyton

"it is known that by now the majority of Americans do not support the war (according to a poll, IIRC, it is 82% against right now)"



Nothing accounting for a faulty recollection.

You've got a mathematics problem, son.

	30-09-2002 04:51									#95
	Remove this text

quote: ...says the living attavism, who idolises a man whose beliefs were 500 years out of date (Franco, who brought the Middle Ages back to Spain, 5 centuries after the Rennaisance begun)

Says the communist who wants to bring the stone ages back.

	30-09-2002 05:03									#96
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I think he misunderstood the statistics, in that 18% think the US should go to war regardless of what the UN says.

	30-09-2002 05:18									#97
	Remove this text

quote: I live 2 blocks from where these "unimportant" pieces of property were destroyed on Friday. Considering the proportions, I live "2 blocks away" from where you're planning your next war (and just "one block away" from where your had your last one). The possibility of a full scale war in the Middle East affects my life intimately. So if you want to prevent people from messing with your blasted property, stop messing with the whole damn world! In all ways: economically, politically, militarily and ecologically.

How is this relevant to what he said? How is it Dan's fault that he happens to live near the bank building that got it's window broken? How is it my fault that my tuition money is being wasted by having to hire security guards to make sure hooligans don't damage my Uni? The possibility of war and terrorism effects me far more intimately than because I live in the number one target for protests and terrorism in the world...

	30-09-2002 05:25									#98
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Says the communist who wants to bring the stone ages back.

Even that would be better than the Ice Age of fascist dictatorship.

Dans, you're right about that, my sources must be wrong. The last poll I found after a google search, one month old, is 69% for the military action, 57% for ground invasion and 40% for invasion regardless of casualties. Yet I guess this has dropped since, seing that it has been dropping during the whole year.

Oh well, the propaganda machine works so well, I guess, that they can do whatever they want and still have "popular support". I wonder how much these polls are skewed however.

	30-09-2002 05:36									#99
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: The possibility of war and terrorism effects me far more intimately than because I live in the number one target for protests and terrorism in the world...

And I am living in the number one target area for US intervention in the world...

F.e. some say that the US is about to make a deal with Turkey for support in the Iraq war in exchange with settling the country's debts and making sure that Cyprus doesn't get in the EU. As Turkey's strategical value in the area increases, we get screwed. We're talking about a direct threat to our national interests here and I bet that paik (who is more sensitive than me in these matters) will have alot to say about it.

And of course, all this American anti-terrorist frenzy has inspired a somewhat similar frenzy in Greece, leading to an all-out propaganda attack against the left. Some of this propaganda is made by people who are known to be on the payroll of the US embassy.

Aren't these enough reasons for me to be angry at your govt?

	30-09-2002 05:43									#100
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Why doesn't Cyprus join Greece?

	30-09-2002 05:44									#101
	Remove this text

Axi at least I care for the people and economy... whereas you want people to be thrown in jail.

The people of America mostly want Iraq finished with. They don't want to support Saddam Hussein so fervantly like you. They want him gone.

You are so misled too... you should look at the facts... not your biased arsed excuse of an opinion.

	30-09-2002 05:51									#102
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

CBEAST! SHOOT!

	30-09-2002 05:55									#103
	Suffering from ads?

If Cyprus were to join Greece, Turkey would annex the occupied territories and Cyprus would remain divided for ever. I guess that Turkey would go as far as to declare a war if that were to happen. IIRC, this is one of the 2-3 cases of casus belli that Turkey threatens us with.

And Giani, I don't want Saddam or any other dictator, but I'd rather have him than a war.

	30-09-2002 06:09									#104
	Got spare money?

Rather have him than a war? Man your facts are messed.

	30-09-2002 09:06									#105
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Boshko: If you and your friends start screwing around with the (environmentally friendly) subway tomorrow, I will be VERY unhappy.

Well the worst thing that happened on the subway is that a off-duty riot cop got on the subway and then got off at the next stopped and got back on the next car
The metro really rocks, best subway system I've ever been on, its even clean...

quote: Instead, you should organize lectures, run ads, publish magazines.

Organizations that do that, such as the 50 Years is Enough Network never get press. There's plenty of this going on, the average person just never hears about it.

quote: The protests have also led the mainstream media to examine the issue of globalization, loss of soverignty, etc.

Yeah there's been some interesting coverage in the Washington Post and whatnot about how the consensus within the IMF for the current policies is really starting to dissolve, especially in the wake of the disaster in Argentina.

quote: Demonstrations turn into riots and riots make people not want to associate with you.

No not really. Its very very rare that people just show up for a demo and end up doing anything illegal in the spur of the moment, anything illegal you see is often planned for weeks ahead of time.

quote: Civil disobedience should be enacted only in extreme cases

A lot of the results of IMF policy are pretty huge emergencies (Bolivia, Argentina etc. etc.).

quote: Set up your own media why don't you?

We did
www.indymedia.org

quote: Its done allready. Why do you think China is trying to control the NET anyway?

Yes, we have sooooo very much in common with the chinese government

quote: But I think that those guys who think that walking around in gas masks or stoping traffic will help are just idiots. Screw them.

The simple fact is that 1000ish Black Bloc people got more press than a 80,000+-person legal march back in April that I was at in DC (bet you can't even begin to guess what it was). Civil disobediance works.

quote: 3,000 - 5,000? That's it? On a beautiful day like today?

Yeah 5kish. Real horrible let-down, since the 2.5 years since A16 all momendum really drained away. The Wesleyan contingent really rocked though, all by ourselves we accounted for what was probably nearly 2% of the entire attendance.

quote: I was around and about tonight and only saw protestors at the 2000 Penn area, which I also happened to take pictures of.

Aaaah so you were one of all those GW students taking pictures of us. There's a very good chance you saw me, I was one of the drummers.

quote: My deep salute to comrade Boshko, a man brave enough to challeng the Apolyton reactionary beast and create a thread about some things that have to be heard.

Thanks man.

quote: the movement has died out

Yup, the only way it'll get back on its feet in the next year or two is if momentum comes out of the peace movement (which seems at least somewhat likely).

quote: The punks that trash property

This sort of BS is really pathetic. There was 1, count em 1, act of property destruction the whole weekend. You get more than that at the average frat party.

quote: How is it my fault that my tuition money is being wasted by having to hire security guards to make sure hooligans don't damage my Uni?

2.5 years ago when we occupied blocks of GWU for most of the day we didn't touch anything (except for one of those orange traffic barrels).

	30-09-2002 09:08									#106
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Were you arrested, Boshko?

	30-09-2002 09:57									#107
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

nope
came close to going on the Black Bloc snake march where I would have probably gotten arrested but was staying too far out in the suburbs to get there without stealing the car of the people who didn't want to go to that march.
Was hanging around some people who got arrested on saturday but got out of the way with my friends when the police started looking threatening and stayed out of the way since I didn't want to walk into certain arrest.

	30-09-2002 10:00									#108
	Put an end to popups!

I haven't finished the roll yet, but I'll post the pics when I get them developed. I was out around 10ish and there was only one drummer in the middle of the street around 2000 Penn....

	30-09-2002 10:15									#109
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

ah ok you were probably near one of the other roaming groups on the west side of the police line, I was in the vague 21st & G area (were I was last time ironically enough).

	30-09-2002 10:51									#110
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

w00t!
here's a pic of the wesleyan radical cheerleaders from a BBC article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2286281.stm

Attachment: cheer.jpg
This has been downloaded 45 time(s).

	30-09-2002 23:28									#111
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This is pathetic. You protesters! You lack support... you also lack intelligence... you don't know what you are protesting about! You have no support. The American people are behind Bush and the war.

	30-09-2002 23:40									#112
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Your illogical comments lack any form of support Fez.
Remove them or perhaps a moderator will.

	01-10-2002 01:06									#113
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Fez This is pathetic. You protesters! You lack support... you also lack intelligence... you don't know what you are protesting about! You have no support. The American people are behind Bush and the war.

You're a self-proclaimed Spaniard. Who the **** are you to speak for "the American people." Why don't you volunteer your precious little buns instead of being a cheerleader for others to get shot at?

	01-10-2002 04:21									#114
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat You're a self-proclaimed Spaniard. Who the **** are you to speak for "the American people." Why don't you volunteer your precious little buns instead of being a cheerleader for others to get shot at?

You are right. I don't have that right. Maybe I shouldn't give a **** about your country if that is the way you feel. Maybe I shouldn't even care what your country does.... maybe I shouldn't care if you get gas bombed by Saddam Hussein.. maybe I shouldn't care if a nuclear bomb gets dropped off in new york because of the ignorance of the few anti-war protesters who don't a thing about what they are protesting against.

The fact is I do give a crap about what is happening. I don't want to see people dying... I hate war... but sometimes there are no other options.

	01-10-2002 04:40									#115
	! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Boshko w00t! here's a pic of the wesleyan radical cheerleaders from a BBC article

You need better looking cheerleaders.

	01-10-2002 06:02									#116
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Fez, I'm an American and most people I talk to could care less about Iraq. The only people who care, are rabid right wingers, rich people (whose kids won't be fighting), big media (whose kids won't be fighting), and the politicians (whose kids, also won't be fighting). The only people who support this unprovoked invasion of Iraq are people who won't be fighting there.

Stop acting like you speak for all Americans, because you don't.

	01-10-2002 06:04									#117
	Inflate your Upload Space

Fine. I never claimed I was speaking for anybody. But Iraq has to go either way.