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Andrew1999
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Congratulations, you've all arrived just in time to watch NATO being dismantled. Hope you didn't pay too much to get in the door.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Sonic
Yes, that friendship between Russia and USA became the last think for me to became anti-nato instead of pro-nato. Russians can't ever be trusted in my opinion (as history shown  ) and they were considered the biggest threat and the biggest reason to join NATO. If they are almost in NATO themselves, than there is absolutely no point to join that organisation. I think that if Russia would annex Lithuania (assuming that Lithuania would've joined NATO), USA would do nothing, just maybe condemn Russian actions... |
I don't think NATO is or ever was anti-Russian. NATO is an alliance of democracies that seeks to protect democracies from dictatorships of any stripe. Once Russia became democratic, NATO's hostility to Russia no longer had any reason to exist. Thus Bush's speech last year proclaiming to NATO that Russia was not an enemy. Obviously, this speech was well recieved in Russia.
However, many in NATO, and it appears, many in the Baltic, still see Russia as an enemy for historical reasons. I think this kind of thinking must end. Democracies have never gone to war with each other anywhere on the planet. They are natural allies in the endless struggle against dictators and now terrorists. I see no problem in allowing Russia full NATO membership in due course.
As to why any democracy would not want to join NATO is a puzzle. Any country that does join NATO has the world's democracies behind them. They could not be more secure. What is the problem? Where is the debate?
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Comrade Tassadar
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quote:
Originally posted by Sonic
Tassadar, Stalin killed more than Hitler and Mao killed the most. Somehow currently it is thought exacly opposite - that Hitler was the worst, then Stalin and then Mao. |
Hmm.....
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/atrox.htm
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm
Although I really do not care about nor for stalin as he was a, well, bloody tyrant.
quote:
Also, Tassadar, history seriously shown you (I mean Russia, not exacly you) can't be trusted and although many Lithuanians has nothing against Russian culture, Russian politics is still being hated. |
See below.
quote:
Remember, you (by "you" I always mean Russia) not only occupied us for once, but for twice (thrice if counting the first SU occupation at start of WW2) and jointly for about 200 years. Also, you killed many Lithuanians and exiled much more. You filled our land with Russians. You forbidden to use our flags and even language (in first occupation). And you expect us to respect you? Never... |
I don't care if you burn a Russian flag or not, but you dont seem to be tolerating me (Not Russia, me). If Lithuania had occupied Russia thrice (counting the hypthetical Lithuanian occupation at the start of WW2) then I probably wouldn't like Lithuania either. But Lithuanians would be different. They aren't responsible for it!
So peace let us be!  I am but an innocent Russian using an American computer to post on Poly.
quote:
Communistic ideals are intolerant of capitalists |
I'm tolerant of capitalists 
quote:
Democracies have never gone to war with each other anywhere on the planet. |
Hmm....that depends
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/demowar.htm
Fun website.
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Comrade Tassadar
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quote:
Originally posted by Sonic
I am tolerating you as a person, however I disagree with some of your views and this is why discutions ussually arises . I have nothing seriously against you. |
quote:
However, I'd think Russians were responsible for big part of occupation. Surely, you can say for example "Germans weren't responsible for WW2, Hitler was", but in reality germans were who elected him. Remember, with possible exception of monarchy an unsupported leader/political party will never come to power. Even military coup won't work without support of army for example. |
With Hitler, the country was in a period where it was down and being treated like crap....Hitler came up and promised great things. Who wouldnt have supported him then? If your country was being treated like crap, you had just lost a war, and were still recovering and someone suddenly came along and began preaching that they would make Germany into a superpower again, wouldn't YOU support him?
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As for democracies, I don't think Russia will stay democratic for long... |
wtf  That is, unless China gets its way....
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Sonic
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:22
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Vagabond, please explain what "much more" that flag means.
It is scary what Russians did to Eastern Europeans also.
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ranskaldan
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Beijing ~ Singapore ~ Toronto ~ All hail to the new Rome
Sep 2001
time: 00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Lonestar
Well......no, he wasn't. He was appointed by the ruling party as the German equilivant of Vice President...basically, a place where they could put away this dangerous nutjob without him causing damage.
Then Hindenburg upped and died. oops. |
Nevertheless, Hitler was enjoying a great amount of popular support. Political manoeuvrings aside - a very large number of Germans were very ready to listen to and accept his extremism by 1933, if we look at the steadily rising number of Nazi representatives in the Reichstag up to 1933.
Besides, why would there be a need to put away the "dangerous nutjob"? If he didn't have popular support, he would just be a nutjob, not dangerous at all. It is precisely his support among the tired, angry German populace that made him so dangerous.
The point of this, in the end, is that democracies aren't "peaceloving"; like dictatorships, they can be stirred to war by any capable demogogue.
What ultimately prevents war isn't democracy. It is a well-off, well-educated middle class population, whether or not they happen to live in a democracy or dictatorship.
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27-09-2002 19:33
What does this tell you?
Nowadays, security is either mutual or none. 
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