13-10-2002 11:44									#61
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Didn't we change Emporer to King?

	13-10-2002 21:16									#62
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quote: Originally posted by redbull Didn't we change Emporer to King?

Again -- To each their own. Players can agree to whatever they like. Do you know the thread where we said that we switched to King level?

	14-10-2002 06:17									#63
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quote: no one's ever shown evidence of me cheating

You mean with the exception of you admitting to it?
Re read your post also you have said alot, math paul is the key to seeing if one is cheating, especially with this program.

quote: So you declare i aint even a good ctp player

No one said that paul, the point was you and a few were cheating players well before you decided to inform quinns. Now this.....

quote: 150 gold a time hardley worth the arthrities.

150 gold per turn x 100 paul which is what you few have figured out. This program you have been using to a "science" has provided a valuable edge. Gold and pw to the tune of 150 to 200 each per turn, doesn't amount to squat, them why use it and or do it paul? lol

quote: I still reackon i can beat any 2 here 2 v1 with out even trying,every turn saved to check the cheating, WHICH OTHERS MIGHT TRY

We do but we do not leave the game when losing check the oponents maps and start this program, you?

quote: So you say i couldnt beat a newbie or even a fairly good player with out using the q trick lololol.

No but without the program and tricks you are not as good as you think you are....

quote: I can beat anyone hear with out using the q trick and them using it.

So paul why do you use it? Paul why do you say you always use it when you are losing?

quote: You aint even worthy of playing me 1 v1 and neither is your mumma. I proved that in our last game before u cheated.

I do not play with cheats paul, beside if you were as good as your ego you would not have cheated in the first place.

quote: CHEATERS DONT PROSPER

Got you number one spot...mind you it's only in your head...

The game in question Paul here had the same amount of sols as me in fact in his cities he had way more. You will note there is no 5000000 million gold...You will note when paul quit he had lost his fleet... You will note if you do the math it was impossible for paul to have what he has.... Two screen shots for your amusement you will also note it was ten turns later by the time all my sols reached him.

Now the first pictures tell the true story the second one shows more. We know when people use this program when they do not host it creates things like what you see in the second picture. Explain to the good people here paul how you can have 3 pw?

I can it is a flaw with the program you use it has been tested to many times now and it is very consistant. It is a well known flaw paul ask the programer he clued us into this, plus adding it up, gold and pw I can say for sure you use this program to claim greatness. The proof is in the picture paul let alone the saves.

I wonder how many or your buddies actually know you do this. Dr Doom was on to something he just did not know exactly what it was, we do now. So Doom take back your appology...

You know what is funny paul saladino led me to this program...

So paul HOW DO YOU GET 3 PW in CTP.....

	14-10-2002 16:27									#64
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I think that might produce burnout in a superleague
environment Redbull, 14 games is a lot.

	15-10-2002 10:30									#65
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Oh so you are accutually accusing me of using this program now ? I got saves from dam near the same time as those screen shots, i would show them but that is way the hell out of my knowledge of computers. I couldnt even manage to post all the saves onto this web page. I guess even ziped a few saves is too big. The save i have at the same time as your first screen shot shows me with 86 SOL and you with 150. I have 10800 and you have 6300 production. It just takes 2 seconds of looking at the maps to realise that i should absolutely thrash you, You have 19 mined mountains and i have 68 mined mountains with about another 12 not needed yet. I was thrashing you untill about 10 turns earlier untill you ranking went straight up for 10 turns and you were 2 inches ahead on ranking on this save. The mere fact of this game is my land is 300% better than yours so even if your a bit better than me theres no way you could ever beat me on this map unless you attacked real early but iwas ahead on tec too away. Remembering that you are certainly not better than me TOO

I doubt i could have beaten you with the maps reversed.

So your altered saves dont really mean anything posting the screen shots, because it only takes you 3 seconds to increase the money. I have no idea what you are on about when you are talking about the 3 pw'si dont understand at all what you mean, it doesnt make sense.

If anyone actually wants to see, give me your email and ill send a few saves all if they fit.

Blackice when i have heaps better land as i did in both cases, theres no way that you can have double the ranking in both cases. Especially in the second when i was leading the whole way by a long way before you cheated. Remember the second game was a 3 player game and i was not the only witness to the fact. Ask grafxfx some time about it if you see him in the lobbies.

CTP is all about maths so with 2 good playes the better land will win if it is a lot better. 80 mountains on 1 island basically and 19 spread over 2 islands at least COME ON.

Oh and thanks for your vote of confidence that i know enough about programing or what ever you actually need to alter the filies of ctp, to do it
I count for a living not work with computers

	15-10-2002 10:46									#66
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I also just noticed you had time to build academies in your cities, and noticed with 1 scientist you were get ting 36 science from a size 6 city, with no other science improvements. Is this right i dont think it is???

	15-10-2002 11:16									#67
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quote: Originally posted by lunger75 I think that might produce burnout in a superleague environment Redbull, 14 games is a lot.

Exactly, thats why it won't be used.

	16-10-2002 09:36									#68
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Paul how do you get 3 pw?

Just type away I have explained it and ya I accused you of that a post or two ago. So far you numbers are BS. and you have yet to answer the ulitimate question...Explain to the good people here how you get 3 PW....

Paul do the math I forgot you al ready have which is why 150 to 200 gold and pw, you now try to convince people is that it is not worth the time....

The screen shot says it all paul I was using the program and you have been using it from what I understand for some time now. You were nailed Paul and still are.

NOw EXPLAIN 3 PW PAUL

I can it is a flaw with the program you? It's your pw explain it...

Again Troll and Paul we are not alone here never have been. Several people have confirmed this programs use by you and others....No I did not mean you Troll in that list but why if you know it is being used do you then attack the ones that expose it?

Enough said people play with your PBEM APOLYTON friends, leave the rest to bask in thier own glory....
3 pw good one, I may add one you have yet to respond to. FLAKES....:

;0)

Blackice signing off from another mission to expose the flakes////

:0)

	16-10-2002 11:41									#69
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WHAT CAN"T HEAR YOU PAUL? YOU SAID YOU HAVE 3 PW BECAUSE?

STILL CAN"T HEAR YOU PAUL?

NOW TELL US ALL HERE PAUL HOW YOU HAVE FACTORIES AND MINES TO THE TUNE OF, ER LET"S SEE 200 GOLD AND 180 PW MORE PER TURN THAN WHAT YOU COULD PRODUCE BY THEN>>>>

3PW FIRST>>>:::::

Hero in is own mind........

TROLL WHERE ARE YOU?

Hummmmmm

Just another flake FINALLY exposed..............................


Play clean people sooner or later..................................

	16-10-2002 11:42									#70
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You were saying Quinn? ;0)

	16-10-2002 13:14									#71
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What do you mean by 3 pw's ? you mean 3 pw's left to spend ???????

I have to understand what you are on about before i can bother responding to YOU.

OH so you htink i use ramping or something now i cant understand any of your post so its pretty hard to respond.

NO body else on apolyton has actually played me i think,
gav has berx did kinda i think and quinns and i think that is all. For ramping you need to have gold to spend in the first place and it only gives you a very slight advantage. If anyone cares to notice i dont rush buy things till the quite cheap anyway generally.

Since you think i use a altered filies what the F**k would i need ramping for, i could just create gold at will just like you did and buy things out right. Ahhh bollucks to that .


You say you did the maths and worked out that i used ramping ?????

That wouldnt be possible with 30 cities and a hell of a lot of varibles. Lets not forget that if your city can only just finish building something next turn it doesnt allways quite finish it, you know what i mean ? I think the extra units that you build that turn, adds to the military support costs before the units are built and hence the support costs go up slightly and you dont have as much produciton to build. Hence the unit or building dont get built in 1 turn like you thought.

Anyone else notcied this its hard to explain.

it might actuallly be the units built on taht turn dont show up on military support till the start of your next turn hence, trying to make it so you only just complete something might not work.

This theory would make it impossible to use the maths or dammed hard

	16-10-2002 13:34									#72
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Take a look at this 5000000 gold 215 sol , icon on the side that says blackice and shows him as host
and look at the ranking HUGE with a pretty crappy looking civ

This is about as beautiful as proof gets, i dont know how the ranking could be falsified everything else can in theory i guess> You buy in 100's of sols and it goes straight on ranking next turn

Attachment: julius-paul-500ad.zip
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	16-10-2002 19:00									#73
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quote: Originally posted by blackice You were saying Quinn? ;0)

Blackice, I have no idea what you are on about. I have seen no evidence of cheating whatsover. You must make your case clearer. You assume we all understand all by flashing a few screen shots. I am not that perceptive. Please explain in better detail what you are talking about. I am also still at a loss for what you mean by 3 PW.

	16-10-2002 19:50									#74
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Once I did see a bug, dont know if was in the game or a cheat program, that left your pw setting at x9. I remember either Fuzzy or Waterspoon and myself seeing. Its been a few years since it happened, but I havnt heard of it setting at 3. Is this what you are speaking of BI?

	17-10-2002 08:01									#75
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quote: I have to understand what you are on about before i can bother responding to YOU.

Download the files Paul the screen shot of your civ shows you had pw set to three...How'd ya do that, it is a flaw in the cheat program you use to fix the game for yourself, in case you did not know.

Nimrod yes if anyone takes the time to view the images they will see pauls pw set at 3. This is a flaw in the program used to control pw, tested and a fact. Let's not forget this program is not new it has been around for several years now. Several players have been using it, that to has also been confirmed. BTW this is not the only save I have with paul at 3 pw or x9 or any other odd number it's just now we know why. 3 pw is just this example, the program creates this type of flaw when used. After monkeying with it for some time and help from the program designer this is a sure tell all of it's use in MP. PBEM is a little harder but it still leaves it's trail when in use.

My advice to players in mp is to save the game when someone leaves meet them in the lobby. When you resume the game let them fix thier civ. then save again back to the lobby. You can then resume the game knowing the program is not in use. Until the testing of the cheat fix is done this is the only way so far to ensure the program does not start that way.

Let's take your mines in this game for example. The pw required to get just the mines alone is 200x90 turns. That does not include the fisheries... On top of that Sols, mills, trade, improvements, troops blah blah blah. Paul you add about 200 pw and gold per turn period tested and tried several times against you.

The proof is in the pudding 3pw, let alone the math it is common with this program use. I could post on my sever every single game we have played and every single save for the good people to disect as I have done for a couple of years now...My guess is you learned this from ming, zeratul it is known he used this quite well....

Now about your save paul anyone can edit a save, how you can tell if it is edited you ask? Easy if you can not advance the turn it has been edited, end turn...I will say no more about this topic, ones that know will confirm I am right.

That is why we required all saves asap from the tourney paul...That is why we are still reviewing them...I could take your save and add 500 sols to your civ if I choose to, gold, pw etc...

Quinn, pw 3 no need to flash things for you... How can you say in the same post you do not know the point yet see no evidence of cheating????
Makes no sense to me you? anyone else? I simply do not understand how you can come to a conclusion without understanding the facts?

Email me quinn you are one I would like to show this thing to in great detail...lets get on this thing asap....
More eyes more testing the better.

	17-10-2002 09:01									#76
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I can't see the 3PW in the screen shots

	17-10-2002 09:38									#77
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It may come to a shock to you blackice but no one else can see the 3 pw on either of those 2 screen shots. I might be blind but im doubting so!!!!!
ive attached a save of that very turn how can i alter the ranking for that ?
Your the one taht used that program not me, you came accross it not me untill i was smashed twice by you,
if how many mines i have and so fourth is impossible how are you ahead on ranking ??????????

I must be a very good player because i do what i do with no cheating and you think i must have to, to do so.

Attachment: julius-paul-1125ad.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	17-10-2002 10:06									#78
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Oh take a look a hard look at that save with blue you alter the pw's but still all the cities show the production
as NP, you cant make any of the cities actually build anything. You cliick on the blue civ and it shows it as greens turn so it looks like your showing the green civs civ tabs and statistics but you can actually be showing blues tabs and not greens. So your screen shots are no doubt pictures of your own civ.

I cant see any probs with green just a very good civ made by the best player But remember green has a very unfair land advantage, but that aint cheating, and it was orange and blue vs green, from about 3/4;s through the game.

	17-10-2002 10:48									#79
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LoL nice try paul Nailed again paul nothing new here...

quote: So your screen shots are no doubt pictures of your own civ.

Only to a novice.

paul here is a close up of 3pw notice your civ is changing to commie, I was in commie not my civ silly boy yours.

quote: if how many mines i have and so fourth is impossible how are you ahead on ranking ??????????

I was applying 400 gold and pw per turn it took me 5 games to get to the 200 mark you use. At that point I matched you in the pg to a tee.

quote: I must be a very good player because i do what i do with no cheating and you think i must have to, to do so.

Right do the math paul several of us have.

quote: it was orange and blue vs green

Only in your mind as with the rest.

Paul the jist is up several MP players have come clean and several people have nailed you with this one. Let it go paul and have fun playing with your "buddies"

Again paul saves are not worth the time. Screen shots are....

	17-10-2002 10:57									#80
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Screen shots dont even prove whos civ you are looken at
and they are no different to saves just pictures from saves that dont show the truth

	17-10-2002 11:01									#81
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Here paul let me give you an example of your manipulation of saved files. Here is the same turn you posted now look at southhampton the city. SOLS everywhere wow paul you have 225 sols.

One thing you can not do is manipulate the pw numbers to non game numbers. In short you can change the pw within game peramiters ie: 10, 20, 30 but you can not make it 3....or 9 etc... It simply can not be done nice try though....

On that note you also boasted I had pw set to 70+ check the blue civ 70+pw your civ has 3pw.....Now you claim it is my civ with three Give it up.....

Give it up paul the game is over so to speak, I am sure some people will still play with you............

Attachment: julius-paul-1125ad.zip
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

	17-10-2002 11:16									#82
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Oh my god just noticed your own screen shot shows you cheating. That city that you have clicked on when you get the sreen shot shows a sol, which has been rush buyed, theres no way anyone with half a brain that has been playing ctp would rush buy a sol unless they were cheating, when there is 38 sol out side the city. Ive allmost never rush buyed a sol in 3 years of ctp. The whole cheat is based around buying sol so the mere fact that it shows you doing so is enough proof for me. Especially with all the other evidence that i have shown and hinted at. If it looks like a duck quacks like a duck been seen as a duck then perhaps it is duck or maybe its just blackice

The city in question is blue and is shown in the picture. Now expalin this one ICE???????

	17-10-2002 11:18									#83
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Or how is this paul wow you have horrible land and look I have subs....

No paul saves mean crap 3pw on the other hand can not be done with the editor....

Nice try now explain how you have 3pw....we already know....

Attachment: julius-paul-1125ad1.zip
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

	17-10-2002 12:03									#84
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I dont see 3 pw anywhere so how can i explain it
and i have nothing to expalin because i havent cheated
how do you explain your own screen shot showing you with rush buyed SOL, which is the whole point of your altered filies as far as i can see. Thats your first sreen shot by the way

	17-10-2002 12:09									#85
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Your saying i edited the map while playing or after ?
or not at all ?
Man your getting pretty far fetched now on either point.
How could the non host edit the map while playing ?
I question to the fact can non host even use some trick to alter the filies ? Because the game is made by the host. But what do i know, only how to play ctp not how to alter filies like blackice has demonstrated

	17-10-2002 13:15									#86
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I have just opened this attachment (julius-paul-1125ad1.zip)

1 mill PW????? That is not possible.

And now (julius-paul-1125ad.zip). 229 SOTL and mines everywhere (same turn as above I think).

Well, never mind - I would never like to play such a game under any circumstances - small islands and using "the rabbit strategy.

That is much too far from what I would call an interesting game!

Last edited by TheBirdMan on 17-10-2002 at 13:22

	17-10-2002 13:25									#87
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Yip seen the last screen shot
shows 3 pw's
but doesnt show whose civ it actually belongs too or when it is, or if its just from a save thats been altered,
its just taken with the back ground behind being green
so whats that meant to prove? you know how to mess with filies, i think you have allready proved that.


Is a screen shot meant to be taken when the game is being played live ?

Your technical abily in showing different things seems to be far and beyond mine incase you havent noticed. Yet to show me actually cheating yet though . One of your attempts appears to show you doing as such

	17-10-2002 13:38									#88
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I had a look at the save bird man had a look at as well
just more of blackice messing around altering things surprise surprise, the land and all. The ranking still shows what it was though in the original version.
He keeps showning how goods he is with messing with things so hes proved my point enough said this will be my last post about this maybe

	17-10-2002 19:23									#89
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Birdman -- You must use what you call the "rabbit" strategy in your games or you will continue to get throttled by the top players. The "rabbit" strategy is not "a" strategy, it is a basic necessity. Don't do it, and you will get killed. Haven't berXpert and I shown you that yet?

	18-10-2002 11:16									#90
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In the first game - yes.

But in the second - don't be too sure. You know, that we are very close to each other this time.

Guess I could do the same with BerXpert next time.

He is going to win partly becuase I lost concentration some 30-40 turns back and messed up the direction I wanted to go for new knowledge (should have gone the economic-communismn line) - partly becuase he was lucky hitting my unprotected weak center.

3-4-5 turns later and it would have been too late for him I think (hope ) to attack me unless it was a massive invasion - which his attack now is NOT.

I simply WILL NOT accept, that there isn't any cure for the rabbit-disease