02-10-2002 12:39									#1
	More Tricks and Exploits Tired of ads?

Another crack program has been discovered thanks to the heads up of a few players.

This one is the mother of all as it allows unlimited gold and pw and complete contol of those resources to the 1's....Hell this baby can add goods or increase the gold in one city....

It is not new it is just now put to the public at large.

Several players in GL have been using this program for some time now. One way in online gaming to see it's use is to use H's save game program. This WILL NOT EXPOSE THE USE if the player has been using it for some time. Several players have had years experience using it for some time now.

The control the program allows, and can mask it so far from the average person playing the game. You must add gold and know values to be able to spot it's use.

One excuse we have seen in the past is the crashed join game trick. We know that it has been said this allows for the ai advantage. Well hear me out it also adds to the program use. The program takes about the same time as it takes to adjust trade routes etc. Once the program has captured the values it can be used on the fly without stalls...

This is a game killer no resyncs if the program is adjusted properly. The one flaw is the player will crash if the player using it can not match the modem speed. So if a player crashes a few times in a row and thier pg is zooming chances are they are trying to match the modem speed and the ai excuse is not the reason. Save the game call it a night and review the turns to see if it is being used. I will add that if the player using it starts the game it can be used without the crashes. This program only crashes the player out if they join a game and use it and can not match the ping.

This means every city, every gold etc...You also know you will forfit the game because you have viewed it right! So be sure and be honest...Should you find someone using it again tell someone in private and let them view the files so it can be confirmed and the word, in private can be spread.

The only way to counter this stuff is if we all know and simply refuse to play the offenders...Done.

The ai excuse has been play tested against this program. The real problem is that the program is so exact under skilled hands it's unlimted. Even H's save program can not spot it on the fly if they match the normal gold per turn they would get.

Let me explain this if player a uses this program they can add any gold or pw to thier turn. They then use the gold and pw up and then reset the gold and pw to the normal value they would have received. It can be in the millions or what ever amount.

In PBEM moderators and players must be on top of each and every turn. This program enables complete control of gold and pw.

Just follow the PBEM rules and contact your moderator and or one of the old gumps if you suspect foul play.

Do not accuse in the forums AGAIN Do not accuse in the forums or the game threads just allow for the possibilty you may be wrong and tell the above people.

Again this is not new it was keep secret and the program itself is extremely good and versitile. I am in contact with the company that made it and they are sending me information on how to counter it.

They did not intend it to be used cheating just for training, they do not endorse cheating in multiplayer games or any other head to head games and are helping to create a fix, find, kill switch when it is being used. One is already out there and it will be released in due time.

IN THE MEAN TIME play and keep your eyes on the game, have fun and do not jump to conclusions. ;0)

Last edited by blackice on 03-10-2002 at 07:09

	02-10-2002 13:51									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Blackice, could a patch be created to counter it?

	03-10-2002 07:01									#3
	Tired of ads?

I have no idea what so ever I think at this point I have been told it can be discovered if it is being used online, although it was said to me another program can knock the player out of the game if they use it. That can also be used in PBEM

A little more time and we will know... It will be interesting to see if any players online and here will be stymied

If that program does exsist it will be distributed to the moderators first obviously...

	03-10-2002 15:36									#4
	Hmmm Suffering from ads?

Without naming names, yes it has been used Online and I personally have seen the files, but alas, when ever I see this happening, i simply dont play that person.

~Peace~

	04-10-2002 03:36									#5
	Put an end to popups!

Unbelievable... How could anyone find enjoyment by beating someone after cheating?

	04-10-2002 08:05									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by centrifuge Unbelievable... How could anyone find enjoyment by beating someone after cheating?

It is truly unbelievable. I never really understood it either. I think that those who cheat (for no monetary gain) are seriously deficient in confidence. To them, cheating is being "clever", it isn't cheating. They see it as a secret "strategy" they can use to win and gloat over the defeated. Those who cheat for money are just plain, low life, scum of the earth, crooks. Those that cheat, for no money, are extremely hungry for approval -- at any cost! What they don't realize is that by cheating they move in the opposite direction to what they desire. That is, they gain not approval, but disgust.

	04-10-2002 08:23									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by quinns It is truly unbelievable. I never really understood it either. I think that those who cheat (for no monetary gain) are seriously deficient in confidence. To them, cheating is being "clever", it isn't cheating. They see it as a secret "strategy" they can use to win and gloat over the defeated. Those who cheat for money are just plain, low life, scum of the earth, crooks. Those that cheat, for no money, are extremely hungry for approval -- at any cost! What they don't realize is that by cheating they move in the opposite direction to what they desire. That is, they gain not approval, but disgust.

Right on the button my friend!

Sad, but there are even here among us, those whom fit that category

Must try to pull them or even lead them back from the Darkside!

	04-10-2002 18:25									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

Troll if you have proof someone here has cheated have you told a moderator or anyone else?

Too true Quinns we have seen this all too often, all the tricks and exploits which were keep secret until substantial leads were acheived on the GL leader boards is one example.

This too is one of those senerios, this program has been tested on some of the greats out there and the math simply does not add up.

Gold and pw were on average 250 to 500 per turn and applied at the most increadable times. The experience some of them have shown using this thing is unbeleivable.

A few people here have seen this program in use and it is quite stealthy, I will add it is not the only program of it's kind either.

It seems the quake players have found the cure I am testing now to see if it works here to. In the mean time keep you saved games and go through every single turn and city...

	04-10-2002 19:47									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by blackice Troll if you have proof someone here has cheated have you told a moderator or anyone else? Too true Quinns we have seen this all too often, all the tricks and exploits which were keep secret until substantial leads were acheived on the GL leader boards is one example. This too is one of those senerios, this program has been tested on some of the greats out there and the math simply does not add up. Gold and pw were on average 250 to 500 per turn and applied at the most increadable times. The experience some of them have shown using this thing is unbeleivable. A few people here have seen this program in use and it is quite stealthy, I will add it is not the only program of it's kind either. It seems the quake players have found the cure I am testing now to see if it works here to. In the mean time keep you saved games and go through every single turn and city...

It is my understanding I am my own MP Moderator and yes CTRL-N and BOOT THEM lowlifes is my decision and thats final word from Moderator Troll and No I dont have the save file I was not host and only recently learned how to save a game as non-host...but did in fact see it for real. Like I stated Pete, No Names but just merely verifying what you were sharing as many know me, I aint that great and also do not cheat. I was merely "echoing" your announcements

Oh yeah and I also told you a few weeks ago in a PM or email, forget which and shared with many others same, in private just asking, but yeah it sux people have to do this!

	04-10-2002 20:21									#10
	Suffering from ads?

True but the reason for sharing the name is so we can all ctrl n the offending players. Seems the Kligon thing to do

Do not forget there have been several players play testing this program too, and the counter fixes as of recent

	05-10-2002 09:41									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Troll thinks I am one of the offenders but will not say it in public. The rumor is out there and as I have stated it is not me at all. Troll you with us here or are you playing the the GL possum?

I have and never will cheat in an HONEST game problem is outside of PBEM good luck finding an honest game....

Now Troll these heros you have in GL have you really analized their games?

I have, I would put dollars to cents that not one of the top players here would lose to any of those er players in any game PBEM, period. Paul for instance has admitted he will not lose a game without rush buying and or ramping to avoid it no matter what, etc etc etc.

Hey Paul if you are reading this I still have the image of our conversation....

GL did not die because it was honest Troll and PBEM did not expand because it was not....

You know why they can not play here Troll or will not?

Give it some time you will see for yourself. It takes BS to find BS if you you are looking for an honest player to find the BS your looking at him....

I can tell you right now exactly how much gold, pw etc is applied with this long awaited discovery with each and every so called GREAT player applies and when they will apply it to the turn almost.

So you were saying? Who cheats and why?

Make the difference known Troll because thier is one.....

Now which side of the fence are you on anyway?

	05-10-2002 12:40									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Since we are on the subject of cheats and the such, how about this scenario?

Player 1 and player 2 are allied against player 3 in a pbem. Player 1 has some nukes he wants to use against player 3, but needs some targets from player 2 who has the Glob Sat. P1 opens his turn and ends it, nothing else. He then sends P2 his turn, in which he opens it, looks for targets, then emails the results back to P1. P1 opens his turn, plays as normal, and sends P2 his turn to continue the game.

	05-10-2002 16:53									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Nimrod: That is cheating.

But if player 2 sends the turn to player 3 AND a mail back to player 1, telling what he have seen. Then it is OK, that player 1, using this information, nukes player 3.

But I guess, that what player 1 "needs" this cheat for, is not for nuking cities, but to nuke troop-concentracions......

	05-10-2002 17:30									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by blackice Troll thinks I am one of the offenders but will not say it in public. The rumor is out there and as I have stated it is not me at all. Troll you with us here or are you playing the the GL possum? I have and never will cheat in an HONEST game problem is outside of PBEM good luck finding an honest game.... Now Troll these heros you have in GL have you really analized their games? I have, I would put dollars to cents that not one of the top players here would lose to any of those er players in any game PBEM, period. Paul for instance has admitted he will not lose a game without rush buying and or ramping to avoid it no matter what, etc etc etc. Hey Paul if you are reading this I still have the image of our conversation.... GL did not die because it was honest Troll and PBEM did not expand because it was not.... You know why they can not play here Troll or will not? Give it some time you will see for yourself. It takes BS to find BS if you you are looking for an honest player to find the BS your looking at him.... I can tell you right now exactly how much gold, pw etc is applied with this long awaited discovery with each and every so called GREAT player applies and when they will apply it to the turn almost. So you were saying? Who cheats and why? Make the difference known Troll because thier is one..... Now which side of the fence are you on anyway?

Now Blackice, didnt we all agree that without proof not to come forward? Ok, since you and you alone have "CALLED-ME-OUT " I will state it, 1/2 dozen players have come to me and stated YES it is you, but NO I have not come out because I have no proof, and for real, I could give a RAT$ AR$E if you or anyone else cheats, "re-configures" Ramps-Rush-Buys or any other exploitation, why some out there dont care because I exclude so many units, Pete, play as you will, and I will my way. I have not accused you now have I, for it is you with the guilty conscience not I. As far as am I "with" you or not, to answer you quite plainly NO I aint with no one, I play MP games, not GL games, not PBEM Games, I simply play when I want, single player scenarios the way i want, my hard earned moola went into purchasing this game, I can and will continue to play as I choose. Maybe you are confusing me for someone whom has to report to you..??I do not however fit that category. As for my responses, I am just simply responding to your post that yes there have been some very questionable practices and for real, anyone cheats thats between them and The Lord and whomever they are playing, and Oh yes, the mirror they have to look into, for "shortcuts" are just that, if not evryone uses or is at least CLEAR on them than its cheating, PERIOD. AS for what makes it a difference or not in how to accomplish 16 Million Gold by the time you have railroad with 116 SOL's with say 30 cities and communism is NOT POSSIBLE starting with 100 gold and 1 city. Only having 25 trade routes and making1200 gold per turn -science for maybe a net gain of 300 per turn, NO WAY, the upkeep on Unit cost would kill you. Minimal tile/terrain improvements, so cancel out tons of mines.

Ok, what side of the fence am I on?

Well, since you are the pokey-little-puppy, peeking under my fence to induce a response, you now have it. I have not accused you, I have been told by some of your so-called- "Buddies", be it they have proof or not, I have actually seen two files, one players name I remember the others I dont,but had very similiar styles. I have allways thought you were a top-notch player, now, I have not "Called-you-out" but you choose to play Politacl forum with me? Why? But so as not to get Solver upset, because last time I did exactly this, answer a public complaint from one of Solvers- buddies, I got three days. You see, it not what you do but who you you rspond too I am now gonna go be quiet, I do hope I answered what questions you have.

Have a blessed day Pete!

	05-10-2002 19:12									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I did come across as rather harsh

Yes I too have heard the on going rumour nothing new there Troll same thing happened when we found the other game cheats.

quote: 116 SOL's with say 30 cities and communism is NOT POSSIBLE starting with 100 gold and 1 city.

My point exactly do you know how many game saves I have with this configuration, too many which is why I kept looking for the reason. Any wonder now the rumor has intensified and you are here to promote it hummm....

quote: I have not accused you now have I, for it is you with the guilty conscience not I.

No proof yet you have alluded to it for too long now, which is why I asked Troll I got tired of your dancing around. In this forum we do not play games like this it is simply not the thing to do...
This is typical of what should not happen it is too easy to do. If you have proof of a player cheating present it if not....

quote: Maybe you are confusing me for someone whom has to report to you..??

Why would you have to do that? It was a simple question which you have answered. This here is a community so far we have looked after each other's butts when it comes to cheats etc we do not get our backs up about this type of question.

That is the main reason for the question we share information here for we are a community. On the other hand many wonder why you are here? You do not play PBEM you do not moderate there is an OT forum in Aployton. Now do not get me wrong anyone can post here but 99% of us have a reason to do so, you?

It is obvious you do not want to and or accept the fact that it is a community here and no one has to "Answer" to anyone. We do though without thought because it is the PBEM way. We all would like to know the cheats and cheaters so we can all avoid playing them, a community. I think your position is very clear now thank you for that. It would not be likely on the next pass you will be in the loop then either, your loop is obvious and it includes the offenders of this program and other cheats. I will also hazard a guess you know of more of them...

quote: I have not "Called-you-out"

You certainly did read your post now if it would please the people here offer the proof. If not it is obvious you are here to discredit the players who find your "buddies" cheats.

Now you PM'ed me and alluded to it, you emailed me and alluded to it you continued to allude to it here, cheap politics Troll. I have no proof but I will continue to hint at it cheap Troll as bad if not worse than cheating itself. You simply could have emailed me and told me what you think... I may have let you into the loop but I doubt it. You see Troll you were fishing to see what you could find out about what was going on here, that is why you targeted me and a few other key people here.

quote: "Buddies"

In mp? I have buddies oh do tell....

Now Troll exactly why is it you are here, rumor has it you are here to report back to your "buddies" things like this program find. Is that rumor true for I have seen the conversations I have no proof but I have seen them the other is you are here to muck things up this would be an example of that.

As for Solver he is one of the best moderators these forums have if not the best.

	05-10-2002 20:16									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You know...

all this talk about cheating is depressing me. Let's just play and hope everybody is willing to use his intelligence to win instead. If not, then just let him/her win and give him/her some child's toy to play with, something less complicated, like a doll or something.

	05-10-2002 20:29									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Whatever pete, I am here to learn, not be a part of some "circle" but yes involved in this community, and Yes I am here, and from now on I will not "allude" anything to you in private, and no I still have no proof, my word is good for me and yes I have seen the file but was not the host and until recently did not know how to save when not the host

But, I will stop this as it is getting to be too poersonal and well, not gonna attack you or anyone else, if I have proof I will bring it, I was sharing what i had seen and as for Solver he is a good modererator but has allowed some folks to get away with cussing and persoanl attacks here, they were warned, I replied to Gavrushka three times on three different posts and got three days, thats what I was referring to. Ok, you go on, run your mouth Pete, you seem to have all the answers and I will simply posts here what I have, experiences with this file and no I aint alluding to it, I have seen it, my mistake for trusting you or even thinking you may be able to shed some light, for yes I made a mistake in coming to you, I shall simply aviod being that ignorant again, for it was NOT you it was me whom crossed the river lookoing for help and the help I get by supporting you and even asking you in private is to be slugged in public by being confonted about something I was simply asking you about, I challenge you to show me where I have attacked you or accused you. I am sure sorry you feel the need to grill me, for again, my mistake was in seeking your help for which you have again showed me what a nice "community" member or should I say "outstanding contributor" your are and thanks for showing how to be a member of this "IN" as opposed to out that you say exists

Well to avoid what may indeed be inevitable, to avoid below, I shall stop commenting on this.

Have a blessed day Pete!
For real, U R DA MAN!

Attachment: futurebanning.jpg
This has been downloaded 57 time(s).

	06-10-2002 11:46									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Nimrod

Yes interesting and it happens I assure you. What makes this different from online gaming is moderators. Cheats as far as programs so far er... have not entered this realm... But spying has and will for some time to come. No biggy in PBEM just paly every turn as if someone has spied no biggy.

Most of us here go on the honor system but play as if they do not and that is the other part of the game here diplomacy. Use diplomacy to it's fullest you will see over time diplomacy counters any and all peeks. Why? because it effects more than just you a player.

That is why multiplayer PBEM is way better than one on one PBEM....

Some have forgot that fact to promote their own agenda.

	06-10-2002 11:52									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

M. Darkheart too true But some of us make it a point to find the cheat zone and those to use it to enable the rest of us to have good solid games of skill and fun.

Look at it as a solid moderator ensuring yor continued pleasure without the interuption of weak players or strong ones looking for self gratification at your gaming expence..

Lets game,,, honestly that is why we have lasted and have formed a community for so long...

	06-10-2002 12:07									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

You keep refeing to this file that file blah blah blah Troll produce the file, produce the facts you as an ex cop know what you have done and are doing is BS. I have asked you since you made it known for over a month now... Stop the BS do it or shut it...

You also know to learn here does not include accusing players of cheating with no proof... After all if you are here to learn you learned that first and formost. So Troll bring it on stop being the GL troll show some trust.....Gain some trust as for this moment you look like a tool and or a dl...Are you just here to split the ranks or do you have something to show...

My bet is what I have said a GL troll....So far it seems the evidence is clear....

So again Troll what are you doing here and why have your "buddies" laughed\\ and haydayed with your antics here?

Come on man the jig is up move on you and your friends have had it here your cheat days and or endorsement of them are over.

Troll you either believe cheating is wrong or you don't. Since most of your "buddies have been proven to cheat and most if not all here dislike and or disaprove and or reject cheating you have a choice to make...

You are either PBEM rules or not, state which side of the fence you are on....

No one will dislike you for your choice just make it...

	08-10-2002 14:33									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: If you have proof of a player cheating present it if not....

I got proof on 2 separate games, where i was not host, anyone wish to know more ?
Anyone wish to confess of anything before hand ?

People do realise that non hosts can save ?

	08-10-2002 15:50									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Paulno1 I got proof on 2 separate games, where i was not host, anyone wish to know more ? Anyone wish to confess of anything before hand ? People do realise that non hosts can save ?

I swear I aint cheated!!!..........Hey, I aint the one whom should be Sweating it!!

	08-10-2002 16:24									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

Just to make sure I don't accidently cheat. I'm new with multiplaying so I want to ask some questions and I hope someone can answer me if I am playing correctly without cheating.

First off, the thing you call "rush buying". Is that the trick of rush buying a certain building and then change your production to a slighter bigger building? I do this sometimes against the computer but if you say this is cheating I won't do it again, I haven't done this so far anyway cause i don't want to risk cheating.

What's "ramping", so I can avoid it? I might have some tricks that's considered "ramping".

Can I save my pbem games during a turn and then load when I have to do something in between or when I accidently sent a unit in the wrong direction or something else? I am an extremely perfectionist player and whenever I take over a game I change a lot to my civilization, I change all city productions if I don't like them, I change the government, I change unit movements, I change all kinds of settings, etc.. Sometimes the first turn after taking over someone elses game I spend 3-4 hours on one turn Happily it goes a lot quicker than that after the first turn

If there are any other cheats I should be aware of please tell me, so I know I'm playing a clean game. Naturally any programs that do weird stuff to the game are out of the question and off course I shouldn't look at someone elses turn.

	08-10-2002 17:42									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

M. Darkheart: The "rush buying" and "ramping" you refer to are one and the same, it is cheating at Apolyton.

Once you rush buy, you may not change production in the city you rush bought in in the same turn.

	09-10-2002 04:32									#25
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I was talken about altered filies. That rush buying trick is used in some mp games and is a rule to be mentioned at teh start. But the apolyton people are very anti this trick

	09-10-2002 04:44									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

OH, The person i was refering to is most certainly not Troll

	09-10-2002 12:55									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I got proof on 2 separate games, where i was not host, anyone wish to know more ? Anyone wish to confess of anything before hand ?

Paul you care to go toe to toe on proof? Ok submit it Really I have tested you from the onset, bring it on Paul I have a few saved games I would like to show some people here....

quote: I was talken about altered filies. That rush buying trick is used in some mp games and is a rule to be mentioned at teh start. But the apolyton people are very anti this trick

NO PAUL WE ARE ANTI USING IT WHEN THE OTHER PLAYER DOES NO KNOW IT<<<<
Now expalin the difference between RAMPING AND RUSH BUYING. Now explain how you became the number one player with ramping, rush buying, and this program under your belt...BUSTED PAUL crawl away now. TROLL you are only part of the community you serve. YOUR an excop right? NOW EXPLAIN to these people you do not understand what I just said.

SEE WHAT I MEAN even in our own forum the bs for a win is beyond several people morals.

I will add a fix has been found...Like a game PAUL????

Notice to all users of this trick and others, game over.... Not in PBEM
Speaking of which paul, troll and the rest of you flakes why do you not play PBEM?

Seems clear now......

Yes Paul and Troll I have tested this thing against known users...

BTW Yoda and Dragon are not amoung the group///

Come on kids when you going to come clean. Play have fun, enjoy good competion?

BLACKICE

	09-10-2002 14:07									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I wont play pbem because you only get a turn every 3 too 4 days
which sounds completely rediculous. Thats if you get commited players too, APPARENTLY, i have only heard this.

For one thing ive never been court altering filies and maybe thats due to the fact i am way too lazy and honest for that. CAN YOU SAY THE SAME ?

I conceded with the best sportsman ship against you, being 95% certain you had cheated. What did i find when i looked at the map, you had 5000000 gold. My land was far better too. You had a pathetic looken civ with 100 more sol than me.

The second game was far more obvious. It was a 3 player. I had a built up a resounding lead over teh other 2 . So being the great sportsman that i am i volunteered to to make it 2 vs 1. Even still i was getting further ahead. Untill the otehr player said i wanna concede paul is too far ahead. Then good old blackice said no ranking doesnt mean everything. Then i told grafxfx bet ya his ranking goes straight up from now on. What do you know it did we went from half my ranking too 50 % more in under 10 turns.

So eventually i just left, knowing he had cheated. So i looked at the saves and he allways had his pw's on 70% to 90% and was building a sol in every city every turn at times.
and the next day after that game he starts this thread



if you want to look at the saves just ask i probably should post them here i guess


In my 3 years of civ ive never actuallly come accross cheating before not once. There was a fair bit of confusion at times about the tricks, they are so easy to find its easy to think they are not cheating, but who shared those with all ??????

By the way GL died 15 months ago get over it, due too most ctpers retiring and the administrators being about as active as the average american citizen. All the top players on that are still the best players no question, either me or yoda is the best player probably him

	09-10-2002 14:27									#29
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: I will add a fix has been found...Like a game PAUL????

been there allready had that happen twice

ive retired from playing 1 v1 anymore. I only play 2 too 4 vs 1 now
without rush switching either. Dont even talk about ramping it makes my wrist hurt just the mention of it.

	09-10-2002 15:15									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Paulno1 been there allready had that happen twice ive retired from playing 1 v1 anymore. I only play 2 too 4 vs 1 now without rush switching either. Dont even talk about ramping it makes my wrist hurt just the mention of it.

Ya killin me with these one liners!!



Now we have honesty, thanks and Paul, I sincerley hope your wrist becomes better!

~Peace~


Troll