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Buster13
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Cleveland, OH
Nov 2001
time: 00:22
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Oh yeah, the real reason I was going to post...
I checked out accelerated production, and it doesn't play the first few turns for you, it just decreases the shield and beaker cost for everything, which I don't think would be a bad thing for PBEM.
You'll get to the better part of the game earlier, and troop movements will be more important. Also, if we play on a standard board, it'll allow more ancient era warfare...which will be important since nearly half of the civs have ancient era UUs. Of course, I was into the middle ages at 750 bc or thereabouts...
I have to say that I'm still for accelerated production, but if you want to play a small map, I'm ok with that.
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Trip
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Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:22
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Problems with Accelerated Production, as I see them:
- It was designed to make multi-player games faster, so people did have to sit for 6-8 hours and play one game.  That leads to some interesting effects on the game being played regularly (as in not MP).
- It greatly shortens the early-game. Like Busty mentioned, the middle ages come quite fast, and some of the more important parts of the early game are lost due to the shorter amount of time.
- More frantic, less strategic. Pumping out cheap units to smash against attackers is quite commonplace in AP. There's less strategy, and more 'frantic unit pumping'.
- Basically, it 'sqeezes' the game, without modifying the engine, which makes a few interesting situations emerge, which, IMO, 'dull' the flavor that Civ III has.
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Originally posted by Buster13
I'm looking forward to the opportunity to get schooled by you Trip, especially now that I know you have that German tactician blood in you... |
What's worse is that I've been a military historian since I was in 3rd grade, am a history/military science major, and will soon be a lieutenant in the armored branch of the US army. I suppose I'm just following my roots. There's been quite a few people in the army on both sides of my family. My great-great grandfather was an officer in the Austro-Hungarian army. 
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If the Apolyton community has enough faith in you to be the Demo game's el presidente...you should be a hell of a challenge to play MP against. |
Opinions on my performance are mixed (due to my 'take charge and get stuff done' approach), and I didn't have to run against anyone, but I suppose I did an alright job. My contributions were mostly political though, hammering out the system which was to be used later on, and not really directly in-game-related, but I suppose every bit of experience and professional work helps.
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Anyway, I look forward to being your slave state.
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May Rommel, Guderian, Ludendorf, Hindenburg and Frederick see me to victory.
Back to the discussion about the game.
I think we may need to establish a couple few 'house rules' before we start. There are quite a few 'quick and cheap' strategies which exploit the game engine to gain an advantage, such as early-game horseman rushing, high-density ICS, etc. Personally, I don't like strategies like those. While 'technically' part of the game and the strategy of playing, they help suck the fun out of games, IMO, and instead put the focus on 'winning', so if we could all agree on a few things not to do, then I'd be willing to not use them. Some people see an early rush as a viable strategy (though I see it as rather cheap, personally) for winning wars, but I don't. I suppose it depends on what kind of game you guys want to play. 
Over on this end, I'd really prefer a longer, more drawn-out game with a buildup period, then an escalation, then whatever comes... a more 'standard' civ game. I guess that's just how I enjoy playing my games.
One final thing. I think we ought to find a time to get all of us together and do the first few turns, so we avoid playing up to 2500 BC in one week. Since we have quite a lot of time, any time on the weekend or after about 2300 GMT on any weekday, after I get out of classes. What do you guys think? I think working for an hour or two on one day with all of us together could really get the game rolling much better than playing as we will later on, with 1 turn every or every other day. We could hammer out quite a few of the early turns at one point, and get to the more interesting stuff (imagine how annoying it would be to play the game for 2 weeks, and only get to 2500 BC, still with one city and 3 units  ).
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Tiberius
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Europe
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Trip
I think we may need to establish a couple few 'house rules' before we start. There are quite a few 'quick and cheap' strategies which exploit the game engine to gain an advantage, such as early-game horseman rushing, high-density ICS, etc. Personally, I don't like strategies like those. While 'technically' part of the game and the strategy of playing, they help suck the fun out of games, IMO, and instead put the focus on 'winning', so if we could all agree on a few things not to do, then I'd be willing to not use them. |
I don't like those strategies either, but I'm very much against any limitation of this kind. Everybody should be allowed to play in his own style. I'm a builder but if I'll get stucked on a small island with somebody else, I don't want to be limited to get my "lebensraum" by some out-of-the-game rule.
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One final thing. I think we ought to find a time to get all of us together and do the first few turns, so we avoid playing up to 2500 BC in one week. Since we have quite a lot of time, any time on the weekend or after about 2300 GMT on any weekday, after I get out of classes. What do you guys think? |
I say we should stick to the rules, which means:
- if possible, send your move ASAP
- if not, send them in max. one day
- if you leave town, you are busy with your work, have your internet connection down or have some other problems, send a notification to the others and you can get a longer delay (let's say max. 3 days, after that your turn is cancelled; can we do that?  )
So if everybody will be free and willing to play in the weekend, I see no problems in playing more than 2 turns in 2 days. There's no need for separate arrangements for that.
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Trip
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Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiberius
I don't like those strategies either, but I'm very much against any limitation of this kind. Everybody should be allowed to play in his own style. I'm a builder but if I'll get stucked on a small island with somebody else, I don't want to be limited to get my "lebensraum" by some out-of-the-game rule. |
True, but I'll be keeping my blacklist.
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I say we should stick to the rules, which means:
- if possible, send your move ASAP
- if not, send them in max. one day
- if you leave town, you are busy with your work, have your internet connection down or have some other problems, send a notification to the others and you can get a longer delay (let's say max. 3 days, after that your turn is cancelled; can we do that? )
So if everybody will be free and willing to play in the weekend, I see no problems in playing more than 2 turns in 2 days. There's no need for separate arrangements for that. |
I just think that finding a time to get the first few turns of the game out of the way would help get the game rolling, better than playing for a week and only getting to 3300 BC, having done nothing but watch your worker dig for 5 seconds before shipping the file off again. 
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Adagio
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quote:
Originally posted by Trip
I think we may need to establish a couple few 'house rules' before we start. There are quite a few 'quick and cheap' strategies which exploit the game engine to gain an advantage, such as early-game horseman rushing, high-density ICS, etc. Personally, I don't like strategies like those. While 'technically' part of the game and the strategy of playing, they help suck the fun out of games, IMO, and instead put the focus on 'winning', so if we could all agree on a few things not to do, then I'd be willing to not use them. Some people see an early rush as a viable strategy (though I see it as rather cheap, personally) for winning wars, but I don't. I suppose it depends on what kind of game you guys want to play.
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In SP games, I have been trying to keep up with the AI, on building cities, so I might build cities fast, I don't know, have never tried Civ MP before...Though I don't build dense...but I wouldn't mind to have any "house" rules...
I always play for fun, not to win (it's not like I have a chance to win a MP game in the first place  )
quote:
Originally posted by Trip
Over on this end, I'd really prefer a longer, more drawn-out game with a buildup period, then an escalation, then whatever comes... a more 'standard' civ game. I guess that's just how I enjoy playing my games.
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That's how I prefer to play too...
quote:
Originally posted by Trip
One final thing. I think we ought to find a time to get all of us together and do the first few turns, so we avoid playing up to 2500 BC in one week. Since we have quite a lot of time, any time on the weekend or after about 2300 GMT on any weekday, after I get out of classes. What do you guys think? I think working for an hour or two on one day with all of us together could really get the game rolling much better than playing as we will later on, with 1 turn every or every other day. We could hammer out quite a few of the early turns at one point, and get to the more interesting stuff (imagine how annoying it would be to play the game for 2 weeks, and only get to 2500 BC, still with one city and 3 units ). |
I wouldn't mind spending a couple of weekends to get started
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Buster13
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Cleveland, OH
Nov 2001
time: 00:22
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I have no problem with giving up a few hours to get the first few turns out early. It would get the game going quickly, which would be preferable to 5 emails to warrior....
I see your point about squeezing the game, Trip...I just thought that it would make the game more playable in a PBEM format. I mean, watching your worker dig and playing a turn where there's nothing new built or researched isn't really that different, except that you might have some units to more around, and possibly a domestic advisor to play with...
In any other type of game I would definitely be against Accelerated Production. I've played it a couple of times now, and I like a normal game better in general, but otherwise I'm worried the game will take well over a year to complete.
As I said before, though...I'll go with the flow without complaint.
(General Note: Attack Trip with horseman rush)
I don't think we should make any agreements for "rules changes" out of the game, but technically it IS diplomacy...so make whatever agreements between players that you want, but realize that it is what it is...
I also get off of work at 2300 GMT or thereabouts. I wouldn't have a problem scheduling some time to play the first few rounds. Mondays and Wednesdays are bad for me, and then there IS the girlfriend thing. Otherwise, whatever you guys want to do.
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20-10-2002 21:36
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