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germanos
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behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
Not too fast...the VVD is mainly concerned with economic policies, and not these controversial topics. Also, if the VVD says no to the CU, the CDA might look to the PvdA as a coalition party (if the VVD and CDA don't get enough seats). And besides the CU, there's not party that may join a VVD+CDA coalition. The others are too unstable, inexperienced or leftist. |
Oh no...
The VVD might be tired of the PvdA now, but they have been very happy that in the last two terms (previous to this mess) they have been able to settle a lot of issues that have been blocked by the CDA previously, and they are exactly the issues the CU hates most: Liberal laws on personal issues: abortion, euthanasia, marriage possible for homosexuals etc.
The fact they have a liberal agenda to economics as well doesn't mean they are not strong advocates for personal freedom, and they will NEVER give that up. They know very well personal freedom is an imperative for economic prosperity.
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germanos
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behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
I disrespect Rosenmuller very much. He always stands against the monarchy, but right now he makes an elecoral issue about Claus' burial and the cabinet crisis. He has a point, but he goes to far with it. |
The whole Claus thing is yet an example of how outdated and onnoying it is we still have a Monarch as head of State.
No doubt the Dutch posters here are aware that the crisis in the LPF (which led to the downfall of this cabinet) was in full swing the weekend Claus died. That was 12 days ago. I have found it appaling that for a full 10 days  ALL meetings in parliament were scrapped, and thus governing this country came to a halt. And see what mess it has brought.
I feel sorry for the Queen, but I don't feel that the passing away of the spouse of the head of state is reason to stop parlement from functioning properly. Especially not in times of great crisis.
The message of the events of the last two weeks should be:
Get responsible, hold up your own pants, and take responsability for your society and your government. Don't look up to saviors, may they be Queen, Prince or Fortunists.
It is us that will have to create and maintain wellbeing. Get that Republic moving 
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CyberShy
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Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:23
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quote:
A. Groenlinks isn't a strong oposer of the Monarchy, that's the SP and D66. |
my mistake, but you're right on this one.
quote:
B. Disrespect Rosenmuller? why? he's one of the best guys we have in politics. and he was the only one who beat Pim Fortuyn in a direct debate. The only one. |
Rosenmuller has a big mouth, but his words are empty. Everything he accused Pim Fortuyn of, are his trademarks. The 'beating Pim in a direct debate' thing you refer to is the perfect example of it. a VERY personal argument, not even in place (Fortuyn was very on topic, and made good arguments) while Rosenmuller was the one who made a show, while he accused Fortuyn of it.
Easy winning, with personal argumentations.
quote:
C. the argument about Claus burial goes for all oposition parties, not just Rosenmuller. And besides, he was absolutely right. It's awfull that the governement talked about these issues on the day Claus got buried. |
Like I said: He got a point. It was not very good to meet on that day. (eventhough I can see that some things are unable to avoid)
But Rosenmuller makes a political issue about it, trying to work on the emotions of the electoral. (electoraat? ) (that's one of the words I can't translate)
And I blame him for that. He tries to win votes over Claus' dead body. I'm sorry, but that's the way I see it.
quote:
D. green-liars? why? cause of Singh Varma? that's a bit cheap, I can point out lots of politicians who pulled all sorts of crap. |
No, not because of Singh Varma, but because of the short-sighted pro-green beleid he wants to execute.
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CyberShy
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Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:23
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Marcus: Please don't start using personal arguments like the Giancarlo thing. Let's focus on the content.
quote:
If that's your argument, then why do you like the SP better? Their plans are way "worse" than those of GL. Did you read the SP alternative budget? |
Well, I said that I respect MArijnesse more while I totally disagree with him. Rosenmuller and van Nieuwehoven are using the big-mouth politics. Very personal attacks and all that. Compare them with ie. Wouter Bos and Marijnesse, than I do indeed like the latter two more. But indeed, GL would be better as a governamental party than the SP. Pherhaps I said different before, than I take that back.
About 'why greens are bad but not in Germany',
most of the time parties like the green parties chill out when starting to become part of the coalition. Take Fischer in Germany, he's a very wise man who saw that much of his ideas got no change. A part of his electoral even hates him for that.
That's what I think that will happen with parties like GL and CU when they do become a part of the coalition. They'll temper.
quote:
awfully short sighted. just because the PvdA and SP are both leftwing doesn't mean they are similar. |
That's not what I said, that they are simulair.
It's that the SP is more extreme than the PvdA.
That's becuase the PvdA has to make compromisses to take part in the coalition while the SP doesn't have to do that.
Of course they're not the same, and they even have completely different programs. But in some way they are on the same line, but one of them goes far further while the other one is much more tempered.
So is it with the CU and the CDA.
And yes, I read their programs. Of all parties.
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Hueij
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Kokonino Kounty
May 1999
time: 06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Boshko
ok, then at least what do all the parties stand for? I gather that VVD is liberal and CU is fundy but what's PvdA, some kind of center-left? |
Okay then, here goes, from left to right:
SP, Socialistische Partij (Socialist Party). Relatively new party with some good old socialist ideas.
GL, Groen Links (Green Left). An '80's fusion of the Communist Party, the Pacifist Socialist Party and the Radical Party (which was a split of of the now ceased Catholic Peoples Party). They grew tremendously the last 12 years and now they are considered government-"faehig". To get there they took a huge turn to the center.
PvdA, Partij van de Arbeid (Workers Party). Originally what the name says, now a just-slightly center-left party. In the focus of political power for eight years but were pretty beaten up last elections. Still struggling. I was a member a long time ago but left when they gave up too much in return for a government position.
D66, Democraten 66 (Democrats 66). Founded in the roaring '60s, center left liberals, almost dead now.
CDA, Christen Democratisch Appel (Christian Democratic something). Center right, formed out of the three old Catholic and Protestant parties. In government since the Exile from Eden but in decline since the '70's and not in the government for the last 8 years. But somehow they were the big winners of the last elections  . Will certainly be the big shot in any new government.
VVD, Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie (Peoples [yeah, right] Party for Freedom and Democracy). Calls itself liberal but are conservative when economics are concerned.
CU, Christen Unie (Christian Union). Fusion of two small Christian parties. For fundies they are kind of liberal but only just.
SGP, S...?? Gereformeerde Partij (....?? Reformation Party). Christian fundies. No women members allowed!! Very small.
A bunch of wacko right-wing fascist and neo-nazi parties, slowly dying out.
----------
Dunno if it's left or right, but we also have the LPF, Lijst Pim Fortuyn (List Pim Fortuyn). Founded by the gay baldhead with the same name that had wacky ideas and was murdered. His heirs totally ****ed up and are now the laughing stock of Dutch politics. We won't be hearing from them from now on.
Hope this helps...
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18-10-2002 02:34
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Agnes Kant 
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