20-10-2002 20:01									#61
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quote: Can you get mariede here with not jew? Yes.

But you can do it only at Cyprus

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Activists of "Shinuj" party demended allowing saturday busing

	21-10-2002 01:03									#62
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kids are sent where their parents want them to go, whether to religious , non-religious schools , or whatever. you can get married , but without the ceremony , with a lawyer, and there are buses on saturday, at least in Haifa. There are smaller buses, and taxis on everyday of the year, ex. yom kippur, that I know for sure.

I really like the way some europeans jump on the wagon, as they see someone from Israel calling this state a fascist one, probably not even bothering to read the text. I think I shouldn't say anything further. This thread was fun , for a while.

	21-10-2002 01:57									#63
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Well, most of us has been on that wagon a long time. I feel the issues raised by muxec are tiny drops in a big sea...

But hey, sometimes it is the tiny things that makes people think. Ethnic cleansing and apartheid might not make you take notice. (after all, the victims are just arabs, right?) If being forced to attend an indoctrination meeting does, well, it is better than nothing.

	21-10-2002 02:01									#64
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maybe it is because the ethnic cleansing and apartheid doesn't exist?

Jon Miller

	21-10-2002 02:22									#65
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Because the victims are just arabs?

	21-10-2002 02:34									#66
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no, because it is actually not happening

Jon Miller

	21-10-2002 02:50									#67
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Ah, so the refugee camps in palestine, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon does not exist.

Fascinating.

And arab villages inside Israel which still doesn;t have running water, that is all due to buraucratic mistakes, and is not indicative of an apartheid policy?

If you belive that, could I interest you in a used Ford Taurus? Only 80.000 miles, runs like new, the owner has to sell because he needs the money, $20000. What do you say?

	21-10-2002 02:57									#68
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu Ah, so the refugee camps in palestine, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon does not exist.

We can blame that on the racist/repressive laws in those particular countries wrt Palestinians.

	21-10-2002 05:38									#69
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quote: We can blame that on the racist/repressive laws in those particular countries wrt Palestinians.

So let me se if I got that right... Israel drove these people from their homes because Jordan, Syria and Lebanon would later pass repressive laws.

How exactly did Knesset auger the future? Tarot cards? Patterns in tealeaves? Oija board?

Isn't that black magic and forbidden in the Torah?

	21-10-2002 08:49									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller maybe it is because the ethnic cleansing and apartheid doesn't exist? Jon Miller

Isn't that what some neo nazis are insisting about the Holocaust?

On a more positive note, it was encouraging to see some illegal (by Israeli standards!) Israeli settler camps demolished by bulldozer recently...

Now we just need the IDF to demolish all the illegal settlements as adjudged by the UN...

	21-10-2002 08:53									#71
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are you still insisting that ethnic cleansing isn't ongiong in britain, australia, france, and germany?

Jon Miller

	21-10-2002 09:16									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller are you still insisting that ethnic cleansing isn't ongiong in britain, australia, france, and germany? Jon Miller

When did I ever insist that!??

While you're at it, why don't you come up with some examples of the ethnic cleansing that is so obviously going on in britain, australia, france, and germany?

	21-10-2002 09:28									#73
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu Ah, so the refugee camps in palestine, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon does not exist. Fascinating. And arab villages inside Israel which still doesn;t have running water, that is all due to buraucratic mistakes, and is not indicative of an apartheid policy? If you belive that, could I interest you in a used Ford Taurus? Only 80.000 miles, runs like new, the owner has to sell because he needs the money, $20000. What do you say?

The refugee camps exist for political reasons. Arab nations and arab terrorists like Arafat preserve the camps to preserve the hatred of the Jews and to enhance their ultimate goal, pushing Israel into the sea. (which includes murdering every jewish man, woman, and child if possible).

Arab nations could have absorbed displaced Palestinians 50 years ago. Arab nations could have negoitiated reasonable terms with Israel 50 years ago. Instead they invaded Israel and have been willing to see thousands of innocent Arabs live and die in misery and they have taught their children to strap bombs on themselves and become suicide murderers.

Arabs and arabs alone are responsible. These pathetic attempts at anti-Israeli propaganda are not fooling anyone.

	21-10-2002 11:52									#74
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Jon, avoiding my answer, are we?

	21-10-2002 12:13									#75
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Arabs and arabs alone are responsible. These pathetic attempts at anti-Israeli propaganda are not fooling anyone.

Oh, it's fooling someone, alright.

	21-10-2002 12:37									#76
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quote: Instead they invaded Israel and have been willing to see thousands of innocent Arabs live and die in misery and they have taught their children to strap bombs on themselves and become suicide murderers.

Magnitudes more died as a result of opposing Hitler. Should they have let Hitler have free rein?

I don't think you've fully thought through what you are saying...

	21-10-2002 12:40									#77
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If only they were propaganda, Al'Kim.

Sadly, the pro-israelis often fall into a common trap - the belief that since your side is doing something, the other side must be doing the exact same thing.

	21-10-2002 15:50									#78
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It's propaganda (from both sides) in order to maintain a "balanced" world. One billion muslims are to be kept from wreaking havoc upon the west. Large minorities in our countries are to be kept from becoming a fifth column. You won't find truth in propaganda, but it satisfies the "higher" issues, not to upset too many too much.

	21-10-2002 15:57									#79
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu quote: Instead they invaded Israel and have been willing to see thousands of innocent Arabs live and die in misery and they have taught their children to strap bombs on themselves and become suicide murderers. Magnitudes more died as a result of opposing Hitler. Should they have let Hitler have free rein? I don't think you've fully thought through what you are saying...

Let me get this straight...you're saying that resettling refugees is tantamount to supporting those who oppress them?

	21-10-2002 16:26									#80
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No, but affixing blame to them for not solving the problem caused by Israels actions is.

	21-10-2002 16:27									#81
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Al'Kim: Que?

	21-10-2002 16:52									#82
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu No, but affixing blame to them for not solving the problem caused by Israels actions is.

Who caused it is irrelevent. The refugees are there -- what have they done to help them in the past fifty years?

	21-10-2002 17:19									#83
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From Jimmytricks earlier post:

quote: Arab nations could have absorbed displaced Palestinians 50 years ago. Arab nations could have negoitiated reasonable terms with Israel 50 years ago. Instead they invaded Israel and have been willing to see thousands of innocent Arabs live and die in misery and they have taught their children to strap bombs on themselves and become suicide murderers. Arabs and arabs alone are responsible. These pathetic attempts at anti-Israeli propaganda are not fooling anyone.

Who caused it is not irrelevant. It exposes Jimmytricks claim as a logical fallacy.


You are asking a different question, however. The graceful transition would have been to accept the previous point before going on to the next.

I'll assume you've done so, and continue with your post.

quote: The refugees are there -- what have they done to help them in the past fifty years?

Not much.

But then ask yourself: What has Uruguay done to help them in the past fifty years? Not much. What has Taiwan done to help them in the past fifty year? Not much. The list can be made quite long.

I've already been through this on another thread, barely a week ago. The arab states can not be blamed for refusing to shoulder the burden of Israels crimes. They could have helped the refugees, out of the goodness of their hearts, but they did not do so. That puts them at a neutral level. The example I used before was refusing to give a homeless person change. I don't think it makes any of us bad people to do so.


Which leads us back to the previous question... The only nation responsible for the refugees is Israel. Not Jordan. Not Uruguay. Not Taiwan. Israel.

	21-10-2002 17:30									#84
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They aren't in Uruguay, nor are they in Taiwan. They are in Jordan. If the United States, or Sweden, for example, kept refugees in camps for fifty years, what would happen?

	21-10-2002 17:34									#85
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu Al'Kim: Que?

We need the conflict where it is. The pro-arabs are allowed to vent their fairytales in order to maintain safety in the west.

	21-10-2002 19:14									#86
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu So let me se if I got that right...

You actually got it wrong but thanks for playing. We have some parting gifts in the back.

	21-10-2002 19:42									#87
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Explosion in a bus in Karkum junction. Tens of casualties.

	21-10-2002 19:46									#88
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Guilt ridden Israelis no doubt blowing themselves up.

	21-10-2002 20:17									#89
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8 dead, 30 injured.

	21-10-2002 20:24									#90
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Stop jacking the thread.