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muxec
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Mingapulco
Jul 2002
time: 07:23
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I both hate and love this country. I hate this Fascist-Democracy, sinking in violent domestic propoganda, suffering from enemy, brought to shame by cult of personality, corrupted and distrupted.
The "democratic fascism", when in constitution written that Jews are best nation and all other have only half of civil rights. Enemy, who we are always going to have peace without understanding imposibility of this. Politics who sell our country. The country when Russian Jews hate Jewish Russian and both hate Israeli Jews. Propoganda is real plague of this country. I and my friends were undicted as ideologycal crimes and parriciders.
In day of Itzhak Rabin's death we had a "tekes" in school (tekes is propoganda lecture). We decided to be absent on it and played cards. But we were detected by directors assistant. We were cought and brought to director. After this we were asked for justification and excuses. We answered "we felt no need in this". After this we heard that we are ... ideologycal enemies and motherland betrayers. What?? Why?? Who?? Why we must participate in cult of personality? Who are these stupids who call this goverment democracy? What the ****ing thing is this? We were told that we would be expeled from the school. Is country with no liberty of ideology democracy? After it we were informed that coming to school in 3 days is forbidden for us and we must write govermentasssucking excuses to remain in the school.
After this we were informed that we can exit the school only 2 hours later, but cannot go to lessons. We have discussed this case. The amount of cursing towards totalitar govt was amazing. One of us said
-People, i saw yesterday the parody opera "Itzhak Rabin assassin". There Itzhak Rabin sang his aria, after this killer sang his aria, after this police and govt...
We LOLed.
- This is insult and wery bad thing LOLing on death- saud Kristina, she was at the tekes. Stop LOLing.
We LOLed heavier.
She was insulted and asked to keep our mouth closed again.
-Where did you?- Asked my other friend-parricider.
-At "Humor chanel"- operist answered.
We LOLed even more. Kristina gone away from us.
And now about Itzhak Rabin. He got Nobel Prize of Peace, but politics researchers think that his political way was wrong and destroying the country. He was ready do give arabians "Ramat haGolan". And his cult of personality is very wrong thing.
Anyway i refuse considering this country democratic.
Resume: violent propoganda is propoganda with negative effect.
And love this country becouse i am refugee and i escaped from Ukrainian Anarchy to Israel Dictature. Dictature is better.
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Sonic
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:23
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I agree with you, muxec
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:23
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דוחה.
אתה לא יותר טוב מהבוג*ים של גוש שלום, התנועה האיסלאמית וכהנא חי.
The pseudo personality cult around Rabin is very wrong IMO. And it is very unfortunate that this day is focused too much on Rabin instead on political murder.
But generalising this on a whole nation, while giving totally false facts to non-Israelis who cant tell whether what you say is right or wrong(tekes, as an example), is something I would've expected from CyberGnu Carver or Mobius, not from you.
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Sh3kel
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quote:
Originally posted by muxec
I both hate and love this country. I hate this Fascist-Democracy, sinking in violent domestic propoganda, suffering from enemy, brought to shame by cult of personality, corrupted and distrupted.
The "democratic fascism", when in constitution written that Jews are best nation and all other have only half of civil rights. Enemy, who we are always going to have peace without understanding imposibility of this. Politics who sell our country. The country when Russian Jews hate Jewish Russian and both hate Israeli Jews. Propoganda is real plague of this country. I and my friends were undicted as ideologycal crimes and parriciders.
In day of Itzhak Rabin's death we had a "tekes" in school (tekes is propoganda lecture). We decided to be absent on it and played cards. But we were detected by directors assistant. We were cought and brought to director. After this we were asked for justification and excuses. We answered "we felt no need in this". After this we heard that we are ... ideologycal enemies and motherland betrayers. What?? Why?? Who?? Why we must participate in cult of personality? Who are these stupids who call this goverment democracy? What the ****ing thing is this? We were told that we would be expeled from the school. Is country with no liberty of ideology democracy? After it we were informed that coming to school in 3 days is forbidden for us and we must write govermentasssucking excuses to remain in the school.
After this we were informed that we can exit the school only 2 hours later, but cannot go to lessons. We have discussed this case. The amount of cursing towards totalitar govt was amazing. One of us said
-People, i saw yesterday the parody opera "Itzhak Rabin assassin". There Itzhak Rabin sang his aria, after this killer sang his aria, after this police and govt...
We LOLed.
- This is insult and wery bad thing LOLing on death- saud Kristina, she was at the tekes. Stop LOLing.
We LOLed heavier.
She was insulted and asked to keep our mouth closed again.
-Where did you?- Asked my other friend-parricider.
-At "Humor chanel"- operist answered.
We LOLed even more. Kristina gone away from us.
And now about Itzhak Rabin. He got Nobel Prize of Peace, but politics researchers think that his political way was wrong and destroying the country. He was ready do give arabians "Ramat haGolan". And his cult of personality is very wrong thing.
Anyway i refuse considering this country democratic.
Resume: violent propoganda is propoganda with negative effect.
And love this country becouse i am refugee and i escaped from Ukrainian Anarchy to Israel Dictature. Dictature is better. |
Verbally abusing you is easy. Especially when you obviously have no clue what you are speaking about, and it shows. But i won't resort to that. Instead, I will only resort to counterring your very flawed and wrong arguments.
Anyone with a basic understanding of Hebrew would tell you "tekes" means ceremony. "Tekes Hashkava", for example, is the funeral. "Tekes Yom HaZikaron" is the memorial you hold on the anniversary of said person or persons death, and "tekes sium tironut" would be your finishing ceremony of boot camp. Now seeing as this a facist regime you'll obviously, as a good citizen, dodge the draft and then proceed to blaming all of us for being idiots for actually going to the army. Well just remember that while venomous snakes spit their nonsense around and cry havoc, ordinary heroes are getting killed so said snakes can have their freedom of speech.
You said you ask what kind of Freedom of Speech this country warrants. I'll tell you what freedom it gives you. It allows you to disagree. It allows you to prove someone wrong. It does not allow you to dishonor the dead or commit a criminal offense. I disagree with the cult around Rabin. I disagreed with his views. But I sure as hell will never call for the abolishment of his legacy and views.
You know what really annoys me? In a few years from now, when you've come to the conclusion Israel sucks and leave, and then you realize you have nowhere to go withotu being called a "dirty jew", you'll want back. You'll realize this facist little country is the only place you'll call home, and when you open your little eyes to the big, bad, nasty world, you'll see what facism is all about. And without a word or complaint, we'll take you back into Israeli society. Take you back so you can continue your endless whining and endless *****ing about how this country sucks, take you back even though we disagree with you completely. But you won't even know how to appreciate it, because this facist little country failed in the one thing it was made to be - serve as a haven to Jews all over. It failed, because the obvious product are spoiled brats with no sense of patriotism or commitment, a generation of people gone wrong.
Yes, there's only thing that annoys me, assuming you DO leave this country one day and crawl back. And that thing is that you'll be let back in.
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:23
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Word by word, sentence by sentence.
quote:
Originally posted by muxec
brought to shame by cult of personality |
Blatant over-exaggeration.
quote:
The "democratic fascism", when in constitution written that Jews are best nation and all other have only half of civil rights. |
FALSE. Not a matter of opinion or viewpoint, this sentence is 100% false.
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Enemy, who we are always going to have peace without understanding imposibility of this. |
Agreed.
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Politics who sell our country. |
Although I also dissagree with those politicians you refer to it is still a matter of opinion. And you cannot label the opinions of roughly one third of the population as "sell our country".
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The country when Russian Jews hate Jewish Russian and both hate Israeli Jews. |
Let's generalize it even further, where every subgroup hates another subgroup.
And now let's see why.
Many Ultra Orthodox Jews refuse to honor the holocaust or the memorial day because the custons are gentile? I guess we both agree that this is wrong.
Many Arabs refuse to do the same from obvious reasons? Again, we both agree it's wrong.
But wait... Some Russian Jews refuse to honor Rabin's memorial day? But this is right... because you're one of them?
This is the problem with Israel. Too many sub groups and no one wants to compromise.
You dont want to stand during the siren of the holocaust memorial day? Sit at home instead of walking in the street but dont spray paint swastikas on the roads.
Your girlfriend needs to pass through an ultra-orthodox neighborhood? Dress in long clothes, not is tiny shorts.
You cant sing the Tikva because it refers to Jews and you're an Arab? Dont sing, but dont make noises and bother everyone else and dont blow anything up.
You disagree with Rabin's memorial day? Dont listen to the speeches, debate against it in class, but be at the ceremony because you must be there just like you must be in school.
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Propoganda is real plague of this country. |
Wild, utterly false over-exaggeration.
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I and my friends were undicted as ideologycal crimes and parriciders. |
As above.
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(tekes is propoganda lecture). |
False.
Tekes is a ceremony. Or does the holocaust memorial tekes is also a propaganda lecture?
quote:
We decided to be absent on it and played cards.
But we were detected by directors assistant. We were cought and brought to director. After this we were asked for justification and excuses. We answered "we felt no need in this". |
And last year, some of my fathers students came to the holocaust day dressed in red shirts and supported the Nazis because they killed lots of Ashkenazis.
You're not better.
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After this we heard that we are ... ideologycal enemies and motherland betrayers. What?? Why?? Who?? |
I strongly suspect that you exaggerate here, but even if you dont. This is one moronic school director, generalizing it to the entire country is wrong.
quote:
Why we must participate in cult of personality? |
No one asked you to participate.
The only thing you had to do is to respect the opinions of those you dissagree with, this is what democracy all about.
I also dissagreed with Rabin, I also believe this day, in it's current form, should not be held, but I stood there.
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Who are these stupids who call this goverment democracy? What the ****ing thing is this? |
The last time I checked school directors are not part of the goverment.
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We were told that we would be expeled from the school. Is country with no liberty of ideology democracy? |
And in some religios schools they have to pray every morning, does that makes the entire country a fundamentalist theocracy?
quote:
After it we were informed that coming to school in 3 days is forbidden for us and we must write govermentasssucking excuses to remain in the school.After this we were informed that we can exit the school only 2 hours later, but cannot go to lessons. We have discussed this case. The amount of cursing towards totalitar govt was amazing. |
WTF does it has to do with the goverment or the country?
Some of the students in our school also chose to do other stuff. No one was expelled. It's all a matter of different schools and teachers.
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And now about Itzhak Rabin. He got Nobel Prize of Peace, but politics researchers think that his political way was wrong and destroying the country. He was ready do give arabians "Ramat haGolan". And his cult of personality is very wrong thing. |
Agreed.
quote:
Anyway i refuse considering this country democratic. |
On the basis of false arguments? How Mobiusi of you.
quote:
Resume: violent propoganda is propoganda with negative effect. |
What exactly this has to do with what you wrote earlier? 
Last edited by Eli on 17-10-2002 at 22:23
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:23
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quote:
Originally posted by muxec
No i simply insulted by unfrredom of speach and nationalism. |
1) Didnt you have a hinuh class before(or after)? No one blocked your freedom of speech.
2) What nationalism? Do you even know what nationalism means?
So there were some sad songs, a description of Rabin as a great guy and someone probably inserted the usual "Rabin's peace legacy" crap. All wrong, I agree. But this is not nationalism.
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VetLegion
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why did you escape from Ukraine muxec?
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muxec
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Mingapulco
Jul 2002
time: 07:23
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quote:
The last time I checked school directors are not part of the goverment. |
They are controled by goverment. And espetially director of my school.
quote:
And in some religios schools they have to pray every morning, does that makes the entire country a fundamentalist theocracy? |
Yes unability to get maried with not Jew In Israel, the ban on saturday busing, the fact that some children FORCED to go to religious schools are theocracy.
And kibutzes make this country communistic.
quote:
cult of personality |
Why do we have "Tekes Itzhak Rabin" but not "Tekes 11 September".
Joining USA as 51th state would help the country. Eli, we both are jews, we both live in this country, but we discuss this country in english.
The other point that in USA during cold war communism was forbidden, as enemy ideology. But we do not forbid Islam, our goverment forbid neutralism. You can be arab, jew, or *****er but you can not use bus in saturday.
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:23
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quote:
They are controled by goverment. And espetially director of my school.
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Ariel Sharon to Moshe Mizrahi, the director of Muxec's school :
"Hey Moshe, I have to leave for Washington now, but remember, if someone doesnt come to the Rabin ceremony expel him. That's an order".
quote:
Yes unability to get maried with not Jew In Israel, the ban on saturday busing |
Then what are you doing here? Return to Ukraine, a great Christian nation, marry a great Christian woman and convert to the great religion of Christianity ve ba le zion goel, less nudniks for me to deal with.
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, the fact that some children FORCED to go to religious schools are theocracy. |
Source?
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And kibutzes make this country communistic.
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Maybe 40 years ago, not today.
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Why do we have "Tekes Itzhak Rabin" but not "Tekes 11 September".
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Maybe because this is not the US?
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Joining USA as 51th state would help the country. Eli, we both are jews, we both live in this country, but we discuss this country in english.
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Because we are on an English forum. Doh.
You like the USA? Move there, marry a great Christian woman convert to the... you know.
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The other point that in USA during cold war communism was forbidden, as enemy ideology. |
And that was good?
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But we do not forbid Islam |
Why should we?
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, our goverment forbid neutralism. You can be arab, jew, or *****er but you can not use bus in saturday. |
And this is the uniqueness in Israel, because Israel is a Jewish state.
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Serb, it means that you would be jewish rus here |
What? WTF is a "jewish rus"?
And you still didnt reply to many of my points.
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
muxec  |
I rest my case.
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:23
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quote:
Originally posted by muxec
It means that you consider this country theocracy. Did I say anything about Christianity, Induism, Ateism or others? |
No. It means I consider this country to be based on Jewish tradition.
There is no Halacha law in Israel.
quote:
Disagree. Becouse I know Hebrew bad and have no hebrew on keybord and you have the same with russian. |
If you hadnt noticed yet, this forum is composed of people from tens of countries and everyone(with the exception of one thread) talk in English.
There are still plenty of my points you didnt reply to.
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:23
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Muxec :
Are you a Jew? An Israeli? Russian? Ukrainian? How do you define yourself?
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17-10-2002 20:47
Demon, demon vernulsya.
they are everywhere, Russians are coming 
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