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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:23
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In theory, in a small arena, Capitalism sounds great. People working hard, producing goods and/or services, and selling them to other people in a healthy, competitive environment. Ahhhh, everbody's happy. Communism also sounds great on paper. But in reality, the two are the same, regardless of their conflicting ideologies.
What capitalism has become:
You pay people the absolute lowest amount of money they are willing to work for.
You charge people the absolute highest amount of money they are willing to pay for your goods/services.
As a business becomes more successful, it eats up it's weaker competitors (like evolution); thus stifling competition. In the US, the government steps in, breaks up the monopoly and creates 3-6 mini-monopolies that by way of parallel pricing, stabilize the market, and exploit consumers.
Now, with the stock market, a successful business comes into the market. People invest, the business grows, over expands, shrinks; losing money for all the investors. With the stock market comes this false "value" of a company. Case in point, United Airlines stock is below the ten dollar mark. In terms of the market, it's worth less than the cost of one Boeing 757. It owns 55 Boeing 757's. Yet the company is worth less than a 1/50 of its assets?
Because of the rampant bureaucracy, business has turned into a firehouse without firefighters, flailing around incessently, throwing off any investor that tries to grab hold.
The entire motivation is to make money. And not just enough money to be comfortable. But to engage in a practice of rapacity and exploitation. In America, the amount of money you have is in indicator of how successful a person you are. And with globalization, the entire world is under the boot of corporate America. Look at the terror situation. The Islam world hates us because of three basic reasons.
1) Unconditional support of Israel
2) Imperialism
3) Military presence
If America were to say, stop pillaging the world, especially the Middle East for oil, the terrorists would have one less tool for motivation. If America develops some sort of propreitary system (I laugh at the thought right now actually because greed is too strong) and provides and spreads its high quality of life, I doubt there would be hardly any terrorists at all.
There would be no need for the US military to hang over the heads of the Arab world like a guillotine, and I'm sure that we could work out a fair solution to Israel's dilemna. There will always be a few fanatics devoted to smiting the Jews from the Earth. But if America takes the initiative and becomes a propreitary nation rather than a capitalist nation, the fanatics would find far less support than they do today.
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connorkimbro
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Seoul Korea
Jan 1970
time: 23:23
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Nothing in there speaks of the morality of capitalism, in fact, less than half the post even is speaking of capitalism at all.
quote:
You pay people the absolute lowest amount of money they are willing to work for.
You charge people the absolute highest amount of money they are willing to pay for your goods/services. |
In other words: you demand (and recieve) the absolute highest salary you can while still keeping your job.
you demand the absolute lowest prices possible before you buy.
doesn't sound too bad to me. And if you don't do that anyway, you're an idiot. Who wouldn't demand the highest salary, or the lowest prices possible?
Why should a company pay an employee MORE than he's willing to work for? Hi, im Sam, i'll work for 10 dollars an hours. response - Oh, no, we're going to pay you 15! That's insane. Why would a company do that? It's the SAME THING as a company saying "here's 10 dollars an hour!" and sam says "no thanks, i only want 5 an hour"
Under capitalism, wages (and prices of commodities) balance out at what both parties agree too. IF they don't agree to the price of the goods (or the price of the labor) then an economic exchange is not made.
As for the rest of your post, you're only talking about the **** that happens because our government gets involved. Ideally, the government would NOT get involved, either in economics, or in the middle east.
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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:23
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 Asher, that's the point, if people want TV's and consumer goods, they won't get them if they are lazy. What a propeitary system does is provide the basics like food, health care, education, and jobs to people. It doesn't allow a shrewd few to exploit the system and build monumental fortunes with which to hold the world hostage with. If people want to be lazy, they can. If they want to work to have luxuries and consumer goods, they can. The difference between the two systems is that instead of one CEO, or a few execs getting all the rewards, the people do.
Greed is not part of human nature, it is a learned behavior. For two million years, up until the last few hundred, human beings had a very communal existence with the planet and each other. Nomadic and agrarian tribes of people populated vast areas, taking only what they needed and left the rest. But with the rise of European Imperialism, the Western world has turned into a vicious swarm of locusts. America is just the most successful spawn of this. You should really learn about human history before you go spouting off what you claim to be human nature.
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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
I don't know how realize just how stupid your post actually is -- that's why a lot of people don't care enough to put efforts into real responses.
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Actually, I fully admit and realize that in a world of greedy immoral people, only a select few will appreciate these type of ideas.
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You're either too dumb to understand what they'd tell you, or you're too arrogant to change your mind about it. |
Actually, I'd enjoy pointing out how morally repugnant they are. And yes, I am too arrogant to change my mind. One doesn't compromise what is morally right.
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Just go keep believing what you believe, I take comfort in knowing that you'll never get into a position of power because even the average dimwitted American knows better. |
History has proven you wrong. People have overthrown monarchies, organized labor unions to fight greedy monopolies, and now America is on the verge of seeing that its own imperialism is the cause for the violence it receives. The average American is brainwashed by the propaganda they see on their 30 second news clips on network TV, and the sensationalized news coverage of ultimately insignificant social strifes.
Why do you think the right wants to keep good education for the rich? Because they want the poor and mainstream middle classes to remain ignorant.
Don't underestimate me Asher. My family came to this country from war torn Europe with nothing and has built a moderately high degree of economic standing. Each generation has been more successful than the previous one. My grandfather built a successful business, and at 82, still works 6 full days a week. My mother is a VP for a clinical laboratory company that employs 40k. I am currently on my way to finishing a 4 year degree in computers. I'm 5 years, I'll have my own company. I plan on getting an MBA and going to law school.
The world is my oyster, I have not yet come to a goal or obstacle I cannot attain or overcome. Am I a lazy person? Hah... Don't worry, I'm sure in ten or twenty years when you're sitting in your small 2 bedroom house in rural Canada, you'll see on TV a young idealist pushing his way into the American government. But I doubt you have the mental capacity to even remember someone like me. Just remember the name Sava. You can bet that I'll be laughing on the inside at all the naysayers.
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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:23
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quote:
Originally posted by connorkimbro
Wheres this fantastical fictional greed monster who controls the entire worlds supply of money, sava? |
drop your stereotypical blather at the door please...
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Fact: the only monopolies that continue to exist as monopolies do so with the HELP of the government (for example, the us postal service has a monopoly on first class mail. or when the long distance phone companies USED to have monopolies) |
That's exactly my point. I'm urging people to vote and take back their government.
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All other "monopolies" don't stay that way very long, and CERTAINLY aren't able to force people to buy anything they make anyway. If the price is too high, consumers WILL go elsewhere, or go without. |
ahem... the oil industry is a collection of monopolies that collectively set the market on oil. They pay off automakers to not introduce fuel efficient, or alternative fuel vehicles.
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And you probably won't believe any of this, because your communist discussion group leader tells you not to believe it, but that doesn't change the way it is. |
Bah, I am the discussion group leader 
disclaimer: If you plan on arguing against me, don't be ignorant, and prepare to have intelligent rebuttles. Swatting flies isn't much of a challenge for me.
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18-10-2002 20:21
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