20-10-2002 22:53									#31
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Don't we all really want to be "Evil Overlord"?
I thought "Galactic Overlord" was a bit much.

And no, the FP is in Pi-Rameses, I'm actually building the Palace in Veii. I was hoping for a leader in my wars, but only got 2. Veii will be my new capital.

	20-10-2002 23:46									#32
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 Ducki, I had a quick look at your IROnworks.save. 1. No need for medicine yet, IMO you've should have gone for industrialization(factories). and you are prebuilding on several locations , so you can easily take womens suffragettes and the other wonders (even without leaders)

This is a reasonable point, but you can make a case in eiother direction. I tend to prefer to get the hospitals first and then the factories. The reason (and it could be faulty) is that by getting a larger pop, I can make the factories sooner. A factory taking 30 turns with 12, will soon be a much less lengthy job with say 14 and larger pop. The research for ind will go a bit quicker as well.
In short, you could do either way as far as I can tell and I have not tested the numbers to see which puts you farter down the line. I mean once the fac is up, making the hospital is faster. The difference to me is I can get a hospital up sooner.

	20-10-2002 23:56									#33
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 forget the worker suggestion , didn't spot all of them first time around. some other things though: 1. you really don't need universities in a size 4 city 2. the palace you're building is it for the FP? , because it has no market, library, ... 3. don't use the buildcue to much, you need to evaluate and reevaluate often, until your more then strong enough. 4. more micromanagement 5. you really don't need all the luxuries in the world. your core cities don't gain all that much being in WLTK. But you're helping your competitors too much this way. don't spoill them too much I played for about 10-15 turns

Good points. I have one issue that may just be my perspective and completely wrong, but I would not be making a palace there at all. I do not want to spent 60 or more turns with nothing coming out. All I will do is reduce corruption at one end and put it in another. Forget the corruption, I would just let those non productive cities get the min structures and then go to wealth and forget them. Stop much of the building in those border towns, all they need is a temple for now. I would not build riflemen, just upgrade the units you have and make a few more calv for the attack. Riflemen are defenders and too slow. I would get the RR connected to all cities starting with the border towns. Now you can send muskets to a city with a barracks to upgrade and cycle them back. The RR makes it quick. Do the border towns and then the coastal cities and then the rest of the cities. Now you can back fill all worked tiles. This is my style, but I am sure others ways are valid.

	21-10-2002 00:40									#34
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I omitted one other reason to go the medicine first route over industry. ToE.

	21-10-2002 01:47									#35
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Given that this is Regent and you have more slack to do things differently, I went with Medicine/ToE and was doing Rep parts. I traded in 1745 to China (I gave Medince) they gave Communism/Industry/Free Art/Music Theory. I traded Elec to India for Silk/Incense/Corp/Esp. I went back to China and traded Elec for 5 gpt and 170 gold (all they had). I had colonized the land behind Alexandria and the tip by Thebes. Thebes as it was exposed and could invite a settler. RR to all cities now and workers are off to have fun except a core group (too lazy to manage them any more). All units upgraded. Left Rome alone. I would stand pat here until someone wants war or I get my tanks. Lots of things to do now, spies, fac/hospitals and wonders. I would not mind if Greece wanted to cause trouble, but you will soon take the lead in any event and tanks will suffer less losses and get the job done sooner.

Attachment: tomunkhamun of the egyptians, 1745 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	21-10-2002 02:11									#36
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alva848, I went the way you choose for Hospitals and put them off till much later. Going to Hoover and then will come back to sanitation. Do not want to risk Ai getting it. I think it would be safe to reverse that since ducki's cities will be producing more than the AI I am sure.

	21-10-2002 02:51									#37
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I am very slow today (most days), I should have noted that the choice to skip by Hospitals was allowed as no wars were in sight. Had a war been coming or actually going on, I may have moved hospitals up to get the Battle Field built.

	21-10-2002 03:31									#38
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Hoover's Dam(Electronics) was the primary reason for Medicine, with ToE along the way, hopefully to finally push me "ahead" in tech.

I am pretty sure either India or China will follow Nationalism through to Communism which I can trade for. Same thoughts on Factories(Industry?).

I wasn't planning on Rifles for attacks, but to deter China/India from trying to attack me and to further humiliate Greece...Cavalry is still good for now, I think.

And with Thebes/Memphis churning out wonders _really_ fast, maybe I WILL leave the palace at Thebes, which would make the Palace in Veii a prebuild for ToE, I guess.

Thanks for the interest and help!

	21-10-2002 03:37									#39
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Also, the Riflemen I am/will be building are to Garrison in the towns I acquire next - also, to follow my Cannon horde around, as well as backfilling my personal goal of 2 defenders per city - I'm short on a few, or have Swordsmen filling in, hehe.

	21-10-2002 03:55									#40
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Sounds good. I stopped at 1852 with all wonders through Hoover up and a tiles RR, no wars, making tanks. Built 2 BB and have a transport so I can use tanks to make an incursion if an opportunity arises. I would now be inclined to go after Greece to take the whole land mass. The game locked up as it has a few times when I was dragging the move cursor around. Oh well, I need to fire up a Moo2 on impossible level anyway.

	21-10-2002 03:57									#41
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I meant to att it in case you wanted to see.

Attachment: tomunkhamun of the egyptians, 1854 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	21-10-2002 04:18									#42
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BB?

	21-10-2002 19:46									#43
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I think he means BS(battleships)

IMO factories are much more important then hospitals, espacially if your going for ToE.
Hospitals are quit expensive and even after that, it takes awhile to get from size 12 to say 15(and from 13 to 14 will take long). If these 3extra city workers , are working on lets say: shielded grasslands that adds 9 shields(with possible extra problems: unhappiness,more polution,...)

on regent level maybe, but not on emperor or higher!

Besides the AI will get sanitation tech, which makes it easier for you(buying, or researching for it yourself).

Good to see that people play this game differently though , alwayss the sign of a good game , not having one supertactic

	21-10-2002 21:06									#44
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BB is the US naval designation for a battle ships.

	22-10-2002 00:30									#45
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wait till you get to monarch its alot harder

	22-10-2002 07:34									#46
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 wait till you get to monarch its alot harder

No reference as to whom this was addressed to so, since I was last prior post, I have beaten the game at every level for all patched an unpatched versions. Must have played 50 or more games at Monarch level.

	22-10-2002 10:12									#47
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Short update -
Caesar is dead, I took that little city planning for the war with Alexander...

Got Espionage, wanted to try out my spies, Tokugawa caught and executed twice - and declared war.

His first "attack force" ( ) was a ship with 2 cavalry.
Against my fully railroaded, defended by Infantry and Artillery, cranking out Infantry and Cavalry in 1 and 2 turns Empire.

Right next to my capitol.

Fool.
I already had a Caravel loaded up, so I cranked out 4 Transports and loaded up about 12 or 14 Artillery, half a dozen or more Cavalry, 10 or 12 Infantry(gotta have Garrisons) and 2 Greek Workers(or was it 4? )
Oh yeah, 2 Battleships and 3 Ironclads for escort and bombardment helped at least as much as all that artillery.

Anyway, right before I attacked his capitol, we hit the Modern Age, Ghandi is now caught up with me, as is Mao.

I have a spy in Beijing, and I think I could seriously beat some snot out of Mao, especially now that I'm cranking out a tank or two each turn, but I might want to take out Alex first, once I get some culture going in my new ex-Japanese cities(once I get the Capitol, that is...that should leave Tokie with 1 or 2 cities off in BFE and me with a 4 city beachhead on China.


I generated 1 GL.
I don't have any wonders to build.
I don't know what to Research so that I get something sellable to the AI AND that I get something to use my Leader on soon enough that I can just wait out the Research before finishing Japan's capitol, so I can try for another leader....

Anyway, that's only about a 7-turn wait, I just gotta figure out what Tech to go for.

Any threads on Early Modern Tech choices?

	22-10-2002 11:36									#48
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Wrong page again.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 23-10-2002 at 01:25

	22-10-2002 14:55									#49
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I got ToE in industrial...
I'm up to stuff like Fission, Computers, Ecology(or somesuch)...

I don't want to lose either the space race or the UN, but I just don't know enough about Modern and where the AI goes to make an informed decision.

	22-10-2002 15:37									#50
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Gonna play this one up to 1854 ad. Same date as vmxa1, that way we can see the differences in style/strategy
Should be sometime today, I hope

btw: what does 'vmxa1' mean

	22-10-2002 16:22									#51
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i was talking to ducki

	22-10-2002 21:05									#52
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 Gonna play this one up to 1854 ad. Same date as vmxa1, that way we can see the differences in style/strategy Should be sometime today, I hope btw: what does 'vmxa1' mean

Virtual Machine eXtented Architecture. It is a main frame operating system.

	22-10-2002 23:46									#53
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What's the first tech you guys usually research in Modern? What does the AI usually go for?

Keep in mind, I do _not_ have a tech lead over India and China.

	23-10-2002 01:24									#54
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quote: Originally posted by ducki What's the first tech you guys usually research in Modern? What does the AI usually go for? Keep in mind, I do _not_ have a tech lead over India and China.

It depends on the situation. Normal would be Computers to get the labs and start Seti and make MI. Then it depends on how things are going. If I am not going to be at war soon and I am beating them to building wonders, I may go to ecology to reduce my pollution and the need to have workers clean it. I do this if the workers are still busy bulding RR and the like. Then I may go to Rcoketry and on to Fibers to have MA or I may go Genetics. Having MA is going to give me an edge and the AI is not going to want to be ungracious.
If I am struggling for wonders I may race for Genetics after computers to get those wonders started.
One thing about ecology is you can trade it if you are so inclined and not hurt yourself.
I tend to hold off on Fission for as long as I can. I do not make nukes or subs very often and if I fail to get a wonder in this age, Manhatten is the one I would rather miss.

	23-10-2002 01:56									#55
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ducki,

I play most of my games on regent, though I'm usually far ahead once we hit modern. The latest game though, Russia was right with me. I know the AI tends to ignore miniturization, genetics, and recycling. Usually, I think the AI focusses on space ship techs like rocketry, and space flight and later fission. It could be dangerous if one AI gets fission and swipes the UN from under your feet. From your descriptions, it seems like you have building the wonders in your hip pocket, but you don't want to let the UN go to the AI. Many people have lost that way.

After space flight, the AIs priorities seems to be get spaceship components techs. After the component techs, he's off to Integrated Defense (never underestimate the power of SDI), and finished up with Stealth, miniturization, robotics and genetics.

I usually go for this order:

computers - research and defense
ecology - I hate pollution, plus it's on the way to synthetic fibers
recycling - I hate pollution. I also may give/trade this to the AI so he'll help reduce global warming
rocketry - build 5 sam sites (useless except for SDI) plus aluminum shows up -- increased production
fission - uranium shows up -- increased production and if you don't have it, you now know where to get it.
space flight - apollo!!!
synthetic fibers - MAs and 3 ship components
satellites/superconductors - ship components
nuclear power - gotta get lasers...
laser - final ship component which is also quick to build so I leave it till last (so does the AI).

Of course there are many paths you could take. If you want to win millitarily, synthetic fibers would come right after ecology and (maybe) before computers. Then on down the miniturization/robotics line for increased production and radar artillery (if you're an artillery kind of guy) and finally stealth. Though trying to bomb with stealth bombers usually is quite difficult since the AI loves fighters. Expect heavy bomber losses!

If you think you want a diplomatic victory, fission would be a definite first.

good luck!
badams

	24-10-2002 03:20									#56
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I wanted to play it until 1854(like vmxa), but didn't succeed.
You should check it out anyway , just press enter

did a couple of unsual things though (for me),
1. Never build any hospitals
2. went to communism for the first and last time
3. moved my palace for the first time

In the end, hade some good fun with and spend way to much time on it

	24-10-2002 03:22									#57
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d*mned, forgot the save

Attachment: tomunkhamunalva of the egyptians, 1836 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	24-10-2002 04:52									#58
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I will peek, I forgot how this game went.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 24-10-2002 at 07:07

	25-10-2002 00:16									#59
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Well, I think I may have screwed up.

You'll recall that I had a leader waiting for a wonder to rush and that India was equal or faster on research and keeping China current.

In learning how to use Espionage, I upset Tokie and he and all 6 of his cities declared war on me. I quickly gobbled up the 4 that were contiguous and a 2 turn transport from Thebes. Battleships and a buttload of Artillery made this too easy. Of course, they also destroyed a lot of improvements. The fall of the second city created a great leader, which I promptly sent to Thebes for some R&R while continuing my beachhead behind China. (I really wish that had been India - China will be a cakewalk and I really need to slow India down.


Anyway, I told my researchers to discover the secrets of Computers while Ghandi researched Fission. I got a 10 turn head start on SETI, so Khufu the Leader is still waiting around. Ghandi finally discovered Fission while I was nearing Ecology(?) and started both UN and MP!!

And wouldn't trade tech!!!

Once he reached the halfway point, I assume he felt secure in the wonders - - so I actually waited until SETI was 1 turn away to trade for Fission... then I started and Rushed the UN as there doesn't seem to be any exclusive benefit to Manhattan Project.

I got both, causing both India and Russia to waste shields, but at what price? I don't think I can pull away technologically...even with a 60-80% research rate, SETI, Labs, etc, I'm just not outpacing Ghandi very well.

And productivity is so high, I don't really have any effective way to "prebuild" SS parts.

I fear I may have to declare war on India, and I'm not really set up for it. China would be a more convenient target, but that would only help Ghandi, not me.

Egypt may just end up lost if I don't get my butt in gear and slow Ghandi down a bit more.



P.S. - I tried a game on Monarch just for kicks and I got quite a few kicks - in the ***. Damn the AI moves fast at that level!

	25-10-2002 00:52									#60
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After I took over your game, I stopped trading alltogether,signed an MPP with India and went to war with china.
Needless to say that India became involved too, at wich point there was no tech trading whatsoever. This is the point where you start to pull away and never look back.
(Except when going to communism like I did, never gonna do that again )

maybe you check out my game I posted above (well it's your game, played by me :lol