19-10-2002 04:11									#1
	Ducki went Regent... How'm I doin'? Increase the size of your Attachments

Ok, I've moved on from the game in the FP+Palace Placement thread, tried my favorite Civ on Warlord, got into a drawn-out Horsemen v. Bowmen war with Bismarck, but got in a commanding position, so....

I decided to try my hand a Regent.
Regent, Small, Respawn OFF, everything else Default.
As Egypt again, hoping for some cultural/happiness advantage instead of my favorites.

Here's the start position. With .SAV and progress to 320 AD to follow.

Attachment: startingposition_sm.jpg
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	19-10-2002 04:13									#2
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Boy, talk about lucky!
I did move SE one square to be coastal, but wow!
2 Game, Hills, Shielded Grass, AND a River! Whee!

Here's the save.

Attachment: egypt_start_4000bc.sav
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	19-10-2002 04:18									#3
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BTW, check the two coastal tiles where the river delta lets out... I can;t tell from the screenie, but often one of them will generate 2 extra gold.

	19-10-2002 04:20									#4
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I didn't think my luck would stay so strong, but on my first goody hut, I found a settler, and nearby Ivory - 3 of them.

With a cow. And rivers. And Hills and Mountains.

I was a bit unsure where to place this settler. I wanted the cow for early growth, but I also wanted the ivory.
But I also wanted a half-a** defensible site. I very nearly followed the warrior over to the goody hut for placement 1 square South of the SE Ivory, but opted for less defensible immediate growth... and less corruption.

Could it possibly get any better? One more screen, questions, and a save in the next post.

Attachment: hutsettler_wheretoplace_sm.jpg
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	19-10-2002 04:29									#5
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Having a settler so soon is definitely a huge advantage- don't waste it, build as many settlers as you can and fill the whole place with cities

	19-10-2002 04:32									#6
	And now, 320 AD Inflate your Upload Space

I really wish Alexandria and Giza weren't so far away, but I had to really hustle to beat the Romans to those spots. I had to move MUCH faster than I'm used to, so my infrastructure is suffering. My tile development is sub-par, but I DID get the Library, Pyramids and I _think_ the Lighthouse(I forget, really).


Now, I need to decide where to put the FP and Palace for future development. Corruption is killing me in the North.

Also, Greece and Rome finally got tired of waiting and wandered through my lands to settle on the big chunk to my SouthWest. I really should have done it, but I was working on the Library and Colossus and Lighthouse(I think I accidentally built the Pyramids on that one as a prebuild, causing my Golden Age, which ensured the Library).

I'm pretty sure I can flip Hispalis and the other one that's hiding behind the minimap...Memphis is insane.
Both Memphis and Thebes actually gave me problems early on...I could NOT keep the population low enough to stay happy...they grew so fast that I could have done nothing but settlers and workers and spearmen, but I always get lured away by Wonders....


Anyway!
I'm thinking Pi-Rameses for the FP, as you should see in the screenshot.
Once I start fighting, I'm looking at Antium for my new Palace.

Neither one is "centered", but this continent isn't symmetrical, either.
I don't have much of a military, 2 or 3 Chariots, 3 or 4 Swordsmen, average 1.5 Spearmen per town, I think.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Critiques?

Attachment: fpplacement_sm.jpg
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	19-10-2002 04:35									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Here's the SAV from 320 AD for anyone that likes to look at other people's games. Also it will allow you to see how badly I bungled the Southwestern "subcontinent".

I was just too hung up on the Lighthouse and the Library, especially with only 2 other Civs on my continent.

Also, I'm hoping I can out-culture Pompeii and Neapolis to flip them and make the FP even more useful.

If not, I guess I'll take them the hard way, but not until Knights, probably. Horsemen vs. Legions doesn't sound very promising.

Attachment: egypt_320ad_goldenage_fpbuilding.sav
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	19-10-2002 05:30									#8
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ducki, too bad you did not prevent Rome from getting a settler behind you. With the found settler, you could have gotten your first grown setter to a town down where the FP is going up. The not allowing any roman units to roam past your borders, there by keeping the land back there yours to back fill once you bumbed up to their cities.

	19-10-2002 05:56									#9
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Oh, I think you misunderstand, vmxa1.

The Romans and Greeks plodded through my settled lands, past Alexandria, past Pi-Rameses, past Memphis.

I tied up two pairs of them with 3 units on that little isthmus with wheat next to Alexandria, moving one in and out of their way for several turns, until it got tedious.

I really was too enamored with the Library and Lighthouse and culture/temples/courthouses/barracks to stop them. I just got too involved in building and not enough with settling. I also despise unproductive cities, so I was saving that. Plus, while they churned out settler/warrior pairs, I cranked out 2 or 3 wonders.

I'm positive I can flip or take Hispalis very easily once I build up my military.

It's a learning experience, and I appreciate the input.
Keep it coming, I just wanted to clarify that those towns only settled in the last several turns, not in the "early" game so far.

	19-10-2002 06:28									#10
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Besides, there's room down there for 6 or more cities, easily.

	19-10-2002 08:23									#11
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Ducki, what I was saying would not be impact by any of that. The first settler you created, Could have been sent to where the the FP is going up. Once the first culture bump occured, you should have had culture all across the land there and the AI would have stayed out and never learned about the land behind it. You could have grown as you did and not had to worry about flip the city. I would say it could flip, or not or it could be a very long time. That city is a staging area that can be used against you. Anyway, all I wanted to do was point out a tactic that I have used to keep the AI out of chunks of unsettled land, of course you must not trade maps. You can use it or not.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 19-10-2002 at 08:31

	19-10-2002 10:40									#12
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Oh, I see. Yes, they did explore that in ancient times.

It was _I_ who misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification on that.

Hispalis did flip, by the way. I found India, China, and Japan. I'm worried about India and China, as they are larger than I am. Hopefully they'll beat up on each other.


Thanks again, more screens and savs later on.

P.S. Now I see why FP placement is so important. Suddenly Alexandria and Giza are productive powerhouses.

	19-10-2002 11:58									#13
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cool

	19-10-2002 23:10									#14
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looks like you have a Roman city hidden behind the minimap on your last screenshot. You really should settle this land before they can use it against you. If your culture is good (you gotta love the Egyptians' cheap temples!), you might be able to flip it before it gets too big.

--Kon--

	19-10-2002 23:34									#15
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ducki, I can see at least 4-5 sites in your existing territory where I would lay down towns... cheap temples, and you become a culture / financial monster.

	19-10-2002 23:39									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 looks like you have a Roman city hidden behind the minimap on your last screenshot. You really should settle this land before they can use it against you. If your culture is good (you gotta love the Egyptians' cheap temples!), you might be able to flip it before it gets too big. --Kon--

Yes, there's a Roman town there, and 3 Greek towns further down.

Well, there WAS a Roman town, it's mine now.
Screenie and SAV coming up.

	19-10-2002 23:41									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus ducki, I can see at least 4-5 sites in your existing territory where I would lay down towns... cheap temples, and you become a culture / financial monster.

There's one desert tile nearly in the middle of the map I WAS going to settle, but (again) I got caught up in the arms and wonder race and just never got around to it.

Once I post my post-Roman war screenshot and save, I'd love to hear where you'd drop towns, considering current FP placement and current and planned Palace placement.

Here's the save, screen on next post.

	20-10-2002 00:18									#18
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A few turns before Chivalry came through on the Library, I moved all my horsemen to barracks towns and waited.

The same turn I got Chivalry, I upgraded everyone to Knights(about 12 or 18), upgraded border towns to Musketmen and declared war on Caesar. Hispalis flipped, the town behind the minimap mentioned by Konqueror fell a bit less easily than expected, and I picked up my future Palace site and two other cities.

I think I need a town on that peninsula to the west, just south of Rome and maybe one in the desert between Thebes and the inland sea.


But I'm currently at war with Alex - he wanted some of the Roman towns, I guess, and trespassed and wouldn't leave. /sigh An evil overlord's work is never done.

Planning to move Palace to Veii once culture is a bit better OR I get 2 leaders. I used one to rush Sistine and leave Greece with a huge shield loss. Now I need an army for the Epic and a leader for the palace build.


What do you guys think? And where, besides south of Cumae should I drop a city? (I forgot I already took Rome.)

Attachment: 1305ad_beatuprome_warwithgreece.jpg
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	20-10-2002 01:12									#19
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It does not matter to me if you do or do not put a city there. I say that because as long as my border covers the ground, no one is going to be settling there. A city would not be required, unless you care about the score. I would just be for 1- eliminate Rome so the cities of theirs I have will never revert or complain. 2- get rid of all greek cities except the ones on the top of the land mass. Those, I may let slide to prevent WW. I do not want them behind me or on my flanks.
With those two done, you can concentrate your force on the last Greek border.

	20-10-2002 01:35									#20
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 It does not matter to me if you do or do not put a city there. I say that because as long as my border covers the ground, no one is going to be settling there. A city would not be required, unless you care about the score. I would just be for 1- eliminate Rome so the cities of theirs I have will never revert or complain. 2- get rid of all greek cities except the ones on the top of the land mass. Those, I may let slide to prevent WW. I do not want them behind me or on my flanks. With those two done, you can concentrate your force on the last Greek border.

Great stuff, vmxa1, thanks!

I originally hoped to wipe out Rome, but I underestimated the size of the force required and the quickness with which War Weariness overtook my citizens...which is why I had to satisfy myself with 5 conquered cities and one "flipped" city.... for now.

Greece had Archers and Bowmen wandering around my newly acquired cities, enough that I started to worry...so I demanded he leave or fight. He chose to fight, so now I'm stuck in a second war. Fortunately, HE declared, so War Weariness shouldn't be such a big deal, right?

Also, this gives me a chance to take those cities on my flank and gives me something to produce until another tech comes along. My core(s) are unbelievably productive, so I hope to have them fully developed by the time I move my Palace to the North...I dread the loss of the productivity of Thebes and Heliopolis.

Anyway, you were definitely right about those cities being a staging area...fortunately, Greece is missing something for Knights - Horses, I think, and in my Roman War, I disconnected Rome's Horses and a luxury - they are badly crippled, I think.

Greece, however, is still rather strong. Hopefully I can end this war and take my SW peninsula quickly, before there are too many Musketman defenders.


Thanks again for the insights, keep 'em comin', guys!

	20-10-2002 04:09									#21
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You are still playing below your level IMO

move up

	20-10-2002 05:01									#22
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Before I was dragged off to the mall and luhch, I played some of the game. Grabbed those Greek cities on the edges and the first big one the NE. I saw horses, but they were not hooked up. Will accept peace after the last flanking Greek city goes down. Upgrading to cannons. You are correct to take a breather for WW. That is what I would do next and then try to get Rome to come after me.

	20-10-2002 05:47									#23
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I think those horses you saw are the ex-Roman horses I pillaged. Or maybe I'm thinking of different horses.

And as soon as I get Metallurgy, I'll build more cannon and not worry so much about musketmen.

Thanks for taking a look at it!

And alva, this is my very first Regent game. I've yet to play a game truly to completion - I play a lot to where I am sure I'll win. Or until I'm sure I'll lose. Either way, this is going to the end no matter what. I have to finish a game, dammit!



And then I'll try my favorite Civ on Regent. THEN maybe I'll move up.

	20-10-2002 07:43									#24
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Yeah, they were next to Antium, the NE city I mentioned and are now in the city culture. Rome is gone. 1525 Physic is 3 turns and that is the only tech the AI has for a lead. Calv walked over Rome, the last city on an island did not even have a defender. Lib and Uni going up, so stick a fork in it. You were in fine shape.

	20-10-2002 12:45									#25
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Hehe, I'm still a little worried about India, but I'll deal with them when the time comes.

Here's another save.
I've caught up with India and China techwise by going for Steam and trading that for Nationalism.

I've had a Second Roman War and a Second Greek War, cleared up that problem to my SW and trimmed Greek some more. Rome is a single city on an island and I can't be bothered to wipe him out just yet.

I'm working on an IronWorks in Giza and am 2/3 of the way done building my palace. Only having 2 leaders is hurting, and I've been "careful" with my elites, they just aren't producing.


Anyway, here's the latest save for anyone interested.
Forgot to take a screenshot, sorry. Things are going well, now I just have to build railroads over the top of my roads, I guess.

Attachment: egypt_1615ad_ironworks.sav
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	20-10-2002 17:14									#26
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Ducki, I had a quick look at your IROnworks.save.

1. No need for medicine yet, IMO you've should have gone for industrialization(factories). and you are prebuilding on several locations , so you can easily take womens suffragettes and the other wonders (even without leaders)

2. No one has rifleman yet, so this is the time to hurt the AI or even to take them out. Get rid of the Romans, the Greeks and get a foothold in the other continent by terminating the japanese

3. build a few more workers(some of your cities are beginning the get maxed-out anyway(size 12)). Get those RR going(don't sell this tech btw)

	20-10-2002 17:15									#27
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You know what, I 'm gonna play your game and see what happens.

	20-10-2002 21:16									#28
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 Ducki, I had a quick look at your IROnworks.save. 1. No need for medicine yet, IMO you've should have gone for industrialization(factories). and you are prebuilding on several locations , so you can easily take womens suffragettes and the other wonders (even without leaders)

I was beelining for Electronics. Ghandi's been out-researching me in a bad way all game. I only just got parity at the end of Middle Ages when I bumped my research, built Copernicus, and went for Steam.

quote: 2. No one has rifleman yet, so this is the time to hurt the AI or even to take them out. Get rid of the Romans, the Greeks and get a foothold in the other continent by terminating the japanese

I only just sued Greece for Peace, Weariness was killing me on taking the lower portion of my continent and denying the horses. I'll have to wait a little while to war again, other than to destroy Caesar.

quote: 3. build a few more workers(some of your cities are beginning the get maxed-out anyway(size 12)). Get those RR going(don't sell this tech btw)

More than the "horde" I have now? That seems like an awful lot of workers.

And it's too late...I traded Steam for Nationalism and 100 gold or so - I wanted Rifles and mobility, because I think Mao is preparing to invade me - he offered me 87 GPT for Steam when he only had 80 in the bank.


On the building of rail...is it better to build one big long rail from North to South, connecting cities to the central rail along the way, or to play Connect-the-Dots with my cities?

Or should I connect AND develop a city as I go, and then move on to the next one?


Thanks in advance, and I hope you enjoy the game! I'm just glad someone's even looking at them, much less actually wanting to play..

I'd be curious to see how your game turned out different from mine from 4000BC, but I don't expect anyone to spend that much time "just to see".

Thanks again!

	20-10-2002 21:24									#29
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forget the worker suggestion , didn't spot all of them first time around.

some other things though:
1. you really don't need universities in a size 4 city
2. the palace you're building is it for the FP? , because it has no market, library, ...
3. don't use the buildcue to much, you need to evaluate and reevaluate often, until your more then strong enough.
4. more micromanagement
5. you really don't need all the luxuries in the world. your core cities don't gain all that much being in WLTK. But you're helping your competitors too much this way. don't spoill them too much

I played for about 10-15 turns

	20-10-2002 21:31									#30
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here is my save,

btw: evil overlord???

Attachment: tomunkhamun of the egyptians, 1665 ad.sav
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