21-10-2002 17:59									#1
	How many times in a game do you cheat? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Regardless of the level I'm playing, I must confess I occasionally cheat by going back to a saved game.

For example:

In the beginning I wait a turn before taking a goody hut if the goody hut produces barbarians. (I prefer to wait for scientific advances).

In the later stages I save a lot of money and a lot of trouble with planting spies by ... yes waiting a few turns for the good moment.

In the final stages of the game it happens that I attack another civ or city with not enough attacking forces. So sometimes I go back a few years to build up a greater attacking forces.

There are so many more cheats available, so the million-dollar question is: am I the only bad boy here or am I not alone in cheating?

My vote on the poll is: between 10 and 20 times a game.

Yours?

	21-10-2002 18:40									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

Not much point in cheating. I take my setbacks and screwups like a man. Beacuase of this I may lose more often than some.

	21-10-2002 18:48									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I usually try to avoid reloading, but sometimes ....

In my current game I had to conquer one more English city to wipe them out. I rushed the FP in Hastings with a GL to get my new territories productive (they are on another continent) and in the turn before I conquered that last city, Hastings flipped back to the English!

FP destroyed! GL wasted!

Reloaded the game, put in some more troops, same story!

Reloaded again, put in even more troops, voila! Hastings stays with me, my troops destroy the English, the world has become a better place (and I got access to two more luxury recources)!

Well, I'm playing Civ to have fun and when the game is starting to annoy me, I intercede.

Happens maybe 5 times per game.

	21-10-2002 18:56									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I cheat about 1 time every 3-4 games. If I make a mistake, I try to assume it. Last time I cheated, I was disturbed during my turn and forgot to abandon a captured chinese city. I just reloaded to correct this.

	21-10-2002 19:01									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I might cheat once or twice a game. If something happens that sets me back a bit I bite my lip and try to ride through it. If it is really bad (like losing a few cities in turn to razes), which was due to an obvious or stupid oversight on my behalf, I will probably reload or quit.

There are times when I just plain forget to do something, in which case I don't consider it cheating.

In Civ2 I would cheat freely and frequently, in particular reloading with goody huts!

	21-10-2002 19:02									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Let me strongly urge you to 1) find the level of the game where you are very competitive 2) don't cheat 3) try to win strings of games in a row or do something else that makes you strongly attached to not losing according to the rules.

This is a blast. Being deeply invested in the outcome is what makes the game very interesting. Not cheating while simulataneously believing each game is very important to you will increase the fun. That's the bottom line.

	21-10-2002 19:10									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

ok, put all of you guys on my blacklist for MP

Personnally , I never cheat.Don't need to

	21-10-2002 19:13									#8
	Suffering from ads?

Real men don't cheat.

	21-10-2002 19:14									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I wold have answered this question before MP. But now, I don't want to end on some "balcklists"

	21-10-2002 19:22									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

It would be a lie to say that I never cheat, but it's less than once per game. My most common cheat is to restart the same map from scratch and try a different stategy. I'm also tempted to use the steal tech/reload cheat, but I have not yet been in a situation where it would be of any use (after I heard of it two weeks ago). Occasionally, I also use the goodie hut/reload cheat.

	21-10-2002 19:24									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by alva848 ok, put all of you guys on my blacklist for MP Personnally , I never cheat.Don't need to

Any cheat involving reload would not be very useful on MP, would it? You need hacks there.

	21-10-2002 19:25									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Bambul There are times when I just plain forget to do something, in which case I don't consider it cheating.

Agreed! Happens quite often in a two (or even more)-front-line-war.

	21-10-2002 19:36									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Voted "never cheat", but it may not be true depending on what you call cheating. I reload only in case I forget to do something obvious... something I know I have to do, but forget to... mostly because of my empire being too big. I also reload if I accidentally hit a wrong key and, say, move my unit somewhere I did not want to. I sometimes live with it, sometimes reload... I wanna have fun with the game and having one's operation spoiled because of a stupid error is not fun.

However, I never reload if something I do or not do intentionally turns out to be a bad idea. That would spoil the fun for me... I enjoy winning only if it means winning in a honorable way.

Basically, I do my best to do only what the AI can. AI never forgets to do everything it "wants" and never hits any wrong key... so I grant myself the right to correct this kind of errors...

OTOH, I quite often quit a game, if it is not going well for me... but I never restart the same map. I simply start a new game...

	21-10-2002 20:03									#14
	Suffering from ads?

Never. I don't reload if I lose a city or do something else. Basically, I don't even reload if I hit the wrong key - I vuew those as some addtional setbacks.

	21-10-2002 20:57									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

I never reload an ongoing game in order to change a result. I even try to pretend I don't know I'll have Tanks in 5,000 years. It's the mystery of an unknown future that makes the game fun (for me).

	21-10-2002 21:24									#16
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't cheat at all. The only times I ever reload is when I'm not really paying attention and accidentally do something, like move my settler left instead of right, and end up next to a barbarian. I don't buy the whole 'your orders got lost along the way' crap. I like a realistic game, but that's taking it over the edge.

I do start a lot of games over, I don't know why though. It's not really because I don't like my starting position, I just get bored with that game, so I start a new one. Happens so many times to me, I can't explain it.

	21-10-2002 21:50									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Cheating is for those who cannot get responsible of their weaknesses
Personnally, I prefer winning it really than making "as if"

But if I wanna test something, I may use saved games. Like to see if the computer does same again and again, to see how it reacts by doing something, etc.

	21-10-2002 22:08									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I dont cheat.

	21-10-2002 22:24									#19
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The only reloads I do is when I walked away from the game for awhile and come back and forgot to do something I intended to do. This is one of the bugabos of computers, you can fail to rememers things you normally would. When I play cards I remember all cards, but in a computer game, I can not even remember the trump suit some times. It is just that you do not "see" the cards the same way as real cards.

	21-10-2002 22:33									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

hm. i voted "never," but like most of you guys, i'll reload if i do something stupid, like forget to reset my science/lux slider or make sure everyone in conquered cities is happy so i can revent a flip. or if i hit the wrong button or whatever. sometimes i'll save just so i can try things out, but i don't consider that "cheating." i much prefer to win "for real" than to cheat.

	21-10-2002 22:42									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I never cheat. If it's good, fine. If it's bad, let's deal with it. If it can't be dealed with, let's smash the monitor...

But I never cheat.

	22-10-2002 00:09									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Well, I do reload! It's a game, my game actually and I do it! Yes, I am a cheater!

Seriously, I do reload when I come back to a game after a few days and I make some moves that I never planned or if I do a stupid move. It usually happens at latter stages of the game when I have quiete a few units and I forget what I intended to do. That's one of the shortcomings of the game IMO, that you cannot attach notes to the units.

So long...

	22-10-2002 00:35									#23
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

i can honestly say i never cheat

	22-10-2002 00:46									#24
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer That's one of the shortcomings of the game IMO, that you cannot attach notes to the units.

You can write them in a paper, you know. Or you can use the Windows notepad. You could even use the Apolyton notepad.

I like when I return to a game I last played some days before. I have a lot of fun trying to find out how I ended up in such a mess...

	22-10-2002 01:11									#25
	Tired of ads?

I don't cheat anymore, although it took me a while (about 50 games) to deal with my errors. In the end, it just feels better to take a city back that once was mine instead of reloading when a I lose a city.

	22-10-2002 01:56									#26
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Alexnm I never cheat. If it's good, fine. If it's bad, let's deal with it. If it can't be dealed with, let's smash the monitor...

That will make Civ a quite expensive game for you, won't it?

I never cheat in a game while I'm playing against a human (of course I'm speaking in general, not about an early PTW copy: I haven't one, so don't ask, @#%. ).

I can reload if I made a very stupid error: I often play a Civ game only for few hours in a week, and sometime I lost my focus between a session and the next. But it's an exception, rare case: once in a game or never at all.

I can accept to survive to minor errors, few cities lost in flipping, bad planned attack. I abandon bad (sometime good) game because it's become boring, but I did the same in Chess, too.

But I don't really care if someone cheat agains an AI: if he/she like it is not my problem, until she/he doesn't try to show a false big score or a fake screenshot to show how a "good player" she/he is

	22-10-2002 02:08									#27
	Remove this text

If cheaters never win and winners never cheat....how come my ex-wife got everything?

	22-10-2002 02:29									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by ACooper If cheaters never win and winners never cheat....how come my ex-wife got everything?

She probably followed the rules...

	22-10-2002 02:42									#29
	Put an end to popups!

It's gotta be related to luxury resources...

	22-10-2002 04:45									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The closest I come to cheating is reloading if planting a spy makes the other Civ declare war. That just annoys me for some reason.