22-10-2002 06:57									#1
	CTP1 & 2 Units? Increase the size of your Attachments

Has anyone been able to import CTP1/2 units into Civ 3?

	24-10-2002 19:32									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Bump

	25-10-2002 01:28									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It is impossible AFAWK to extract the component frames out of CtP sprite files. The CtP1/2 community has been attempting to do so for about 3 or 4 years. Data is lost in the compression process, and is probably irretreivable - despite the fact that Activision gave us half the source code for the decompression algorithm.

Other than doing it directly, the best method we found was to take a screen-vid (like a screen shot, but with video) and cut out the bits we wanted.
Oh, and because of stacked combat (), you'll probably only be able to get two angles of attack animation, not all 5.

So unfortunately for you, the flow of unit graphics between Civ3 and CtP is one way. And its not the one you want.

	29-10-2002 04:54									#4
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So Civ3 unit graphics can be imported to CtP2 but not the other way around lol!

Civ3 is sooo unmoddable (excluding other graphics eg terrain)

	29-10-2002 08:35									#5
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While we are on the topic of extracting graphics...

I noticed that there have been a lot of AOK graphics reproduced for civ3. Can we get Empire Earth Graphics in to Civ?

	30-10-2002 01:17									#6
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Strange, I always found CTP as the most unmoddable of all Civilisation Games (I think one can count the available mods for CTP using less than the fingers on both hands)

	30-10-2002 04:02									#7
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Probably because the main mods (CD's mod, the Apolyton Pack and then Wes' MedMod) were so definitive that nobody else needed to mod it

Its not as easy to learn or begin to mod perhaps, but in terms of potential, CtP and CtP2 are absolute light years ahead of Civ2 or 3. Sure the graphics are harder to mod perhaps. It took us 5 years to get into the Tile Files, there weren't enough artists arouind to make many fan-units in full animated 3D, and we can't edit sprites, but that's not to say it can't be done - and when it's done properly, it can be as good as the graphics that came with the game.

CtP2, btw, which runs on practically an identical file system to CtP1 has about 6 or 7 different mods (and by this I don't mean "kewl, I gave tanks extra hit-points!" - I mean complete overhauls), as well as over 2 dozen add-ons and SLIC scripts, the existance of which on their own could put Civ3's "scenario editor" () to shame...

	30-10-2002 04:10									#8
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Hmmm, I still think 5 years is a loooong time In my opinion a game is modable when one is "able to mod"... may need a bit of time, but 5 years is ridiculous (and who knows what fans will make out of Civ3 once the right tools are at our disposal just remember civ2- the first mods and what people can do now- in TOT you can even write scripts and link maps vertically and horizontally - again special tools are needed for the latter )

	30-10-2002 12:47									#9
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Yeah but with Civ 2 you were given that ability from Micropose, where as with CTP2 Activision abandon ship a little more quickly (No Expansions ).

The things done for CTP2 will go unmatched for a long time.

	30-10-2002 18:11									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yes I think the problem was the shape CTP 1 came out (half-finish) I think I lost some hair when trying to add a unit (well, I managed to add a transport plane, but that was just copy/paste of somebody else's findings )

	30-10-2002 18:56									#11
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Well,5 years was only the tile graphics. Everything else has been available from the start.

quote: and who knows what fans will make out of Civ3 once the right tools are at our disposal

Who knows how long that will take

	30-10-2002 19:33									#12
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point taken

	31-10-2002 10:06									#13
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Between the CTP1, CTP2 and fan created sprites, there's probably close to 200 good units for CTP2. And with the ease of creating custom tga files for those sprites, that unit list is actually infinite...

If a computer semi-illiterate like me can create a Mod, then that speaks volumes about how easy it is to create a CTP2 Mod!!!

Sorry there is no contest between moddability between CTP2 and civ3. CTP2 wins hands down.

	31-10-2002 15:25									#14
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I have to agree with IW and Hex and the other CTP2 commenters. CTP2 is so EASY to mod. And as for "how long it takes", for CTP2 we had two complete overhauls (and I mean most concepts of CTP2) within 6 months, that being the Apolyton Pack for CTP2 (what we've dubbed the unofficial patch) and Cradle for CTP2 (still regarded as the best mod). And the fact that both these mods have been re-released adding more enhancements/refinements/concepts adds testament to the moddability of CTP2. And then we look at other mods. Wes's MedMod for CTP2, which stands in the top three played, Goodmod which delves deeply into the AI's mind, World at War which is 600 turns of CTP2 from 1900-1950 (regarded as the most aggressive right from turn 1), as well as upcoming mods, History of the World by Locutus (who's name is synonimous with CTP1 & 2), Ages of Man which is introducing new concepts like Religion and populace colonisation, and many others in progress.

And then we need to look at ad-hoc scripts/events written for CTP2:
- bribery code
- wonders on the main map
- natural wonders of the world
- barb enhancements
- the civ3 worker concept (can you take away the worker from Civ3 and implement PW? I did the opposite for CTP2)

So basically it comes down to, CTP2 may be dificult to learn to mod to how the small core of modders have got to (it's taken us a few years), but you can write a full overhaul of CTP2 in a weekend, and that includes learning how to mod! We can create new concepts, events, orders, etc for CTP2. In Civ3 you can even change exisiting events.

When it comes to modability, CTP2 is as mentioned above, LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF CIV3!!!!

	31-10-2002 16:28									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Probabaly- I never bought CTP2- If you re-read my posts you will find that I wrote about the original CTP, which confronted "computer illiterates" (and I wouldn't like to exclude myself here) with severe problems.....

BTW- 5 or 6 total conversions is not so much IMHO (I want better tooooools for CivIII- does anyone know if PTW is out in the UK already???)

	31-10-2002 16:29									#16
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BTW- is there a biplane in CTP2- because if there is I think I have seen someone importing it into CivIII (but I could easily be wrong)

	31-10-2002 19:21									#17
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quote: Originally posted by W.I.N.T.E.R BTW- 5 or 6 total conversions is not so much IMHO...

...mainly because the community is small to begin with. This does not give the true picture of just how good a CTP2 game is though - all I can say is read the following threads

Here...

...and here

There is a fan-created CTP2 biplane.

	31-10-2002 19:43									#18
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Perhaps I'll give CTP2 a try- if I find it cheap somewhere

I liked many features of CTP1 but was dterred after finding out that the many (large) patches didn't fix all the flaws- it soon got the "un-playable" tag and dissapeared back into its box

When CTP2 came out it looked too much like its predecessor, that's why I didn't buy it - unfortunate that a good game got so neglected by many...

	31-10-2002 20:02									#19
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I just find it interesting that players like Velociryx and Ogie, after doing their best to avoid trying CTP2 because of negative stereotypes about it actually decided to give it a try and came away impressed by it.

...and yes, CTP2 had to be modded, but the bottom line is that it is a very good game now.

And it is cheap now!!!