29-10-2002 05:06									#61
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Nah, axe the monarchies, especially our inbreds who still hang on sapping money from the coffers.

And is about time we joined the Euro here...

	29-10-2002 05:09									#62
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Well, Harrrison, I agree with that last 100%.
I'm trying to picture all the other European countries being willing to pay Charlie's tab, and on and on.
I can't do it.

	29-10-2002 05:12									#63
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the individual state pays for their own royalty

recently the EU agreed not to let the budget grow anymore (Even after new nations are let in).

	29-10-2002 05:14									#64
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quote: What I meant about the money was that rather than each State in the USA having their own currency, the Euro is the same.

The Euro is new and groundbreaking. And totally unlike the US. Here, various countries are using the same currency, same central bank, etc. In the US, various states do that. Only one American state ever was it's own souvereign country (Texas). The Euro is completely unlike the dollar in that, important, regard.

	29-10-2002 05:36									#65
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"and not long after, the US was enlarged with Spanish and French colonies. That worked out, did it not?"
I think it had alot to do with the poor communications and low populations of the territories - modern Europe is, needless to say, quite different from post revolutionary America in more ways than one. In fact the whole comparison is rather moot - I suggest Europe make its own history.

	29-10-2002 05:45									#66
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We've got history coming out of our ears thanks

	29-10-2002 05:58									#67
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This will never work. We just are too different. It will result in endless fighting.. have the same laws? Yeah sure.. we won't have your nazi laws. I like the fact that I can kill 10 people and get jailed only for 12 years.
I like the fact, that it's actually very difficult to get in jail in the first place in here. You can stab people and still you're lucky if you get to go to jail.
We can't agree even in one thing. Yeah, that's democracy okay, but it won't work here. We will fight to the last man standing if you try to unite us! Go Home Euro Commies! We don't want you here!

Only thing we can have is same currency as we have already, and free borders, as we already do. Maybe some joint military stuff, but that's it. Go home.

	29-10-2002 06:01									#68
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Ok, I just thought about it. Forget the military stuff. It will never work. We are to different in our mindsets when it comes to military anyway. You are wussies, face it.
UK might be ok, but the rest of you.. go home wussies!

	29-10-2002 06:56									#69
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"I like the fact that I can kill 10 people and get jailed only for 12 years."

It would be even funnier if it weren't true...

By the way, FT is reporting that Britain put the Kaibash on "United States of Europe". Why so?

	29-10-2002 07:37									#70
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What would happen if Europe became the most powerful region again?

	29-10-2002 08:58									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus The Euro is new and groundbreaking. And totally unlike the US. Here, various countries are using the same currency, same central bank, etc. In the US, various states do that. Only one American state ever was it's own souvereign country (Texas). The Euro is completely unlike the dollar in that, important, regard.

Ummm..... Technically speaking the point of the Condederacy was that they considered each state a nation state unto themselves banded in a confederate relationship as long as that relationship was mutually beneficial (i.e. defending themselves from the North). So when Slowhand indicates each Nation state printed their own monies he has a legit point.

	29-10-2002 08:58									#72
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quote: What would happen if Europe became the most powerful region again?

Pigs would fly over frozen lakes of fire...

	29-10-2002 13:38									#73
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USE, no thanx. The US is about the worst model for european integration. Far too centralized, and a quite primitive federal system. We'll just do a new thing - The Constitutional Treaty. Well not 100 % new, but on this scope unprecedented....

Dino:
"You aren't even to the "Articles of Confederation" yet in your quest for unification."

And yes I'm taking the comment seriously. If you were joking let me know.

Slow:
"For an area of the world that constantly criticizes, there sure is a lot of imitation of the USA being done."

You have no idea how we deal with our politicians. Shrub is getting an easy ride from here, in comparison.

	29-10-2002 14:01									#74
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Could somebody please explain to me what the problem is with "European Union"? I like it!

Because the beurucrats haven't got anything else to do once they have doled out my taxes to europes farmers

	29-10-2002 14:05									#75
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quote: Originally posted by DanS "I like the fact that I can kill 10 people and get jailed only for 12 years." It would be even funnier if it weren't true... By the way, FT is reporting that Britain put the Kaibash on "United States of Europe". Why so?

because we don't wnat to be run by a corrupt usless organisation that sacks you if you speak out aginst fraud and corruption.

We don't want to subzidise olive grove and tobacco framers, and we don't want you stealing our pension funds.

We like our system of common law.

We agree with free trade and not propping up ailing industries.

We want to be able to not to automatically disagree with the US.

	29-10-2002 14:06									#76
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Maybe Canada, US, and Mexico should unite and become the North American Alliance.

	29-10-2002 14:08									#77
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I don't think that USE thing would happen tho, the UK and the USA have one of the strongest/closest bonds in the current world.....well, seeing as how the US IS a relative of the UK.

	29-10-2002 14:26									#78
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"because we don't wnat to be run by a corrupt usless organisation that sacks you if you speak out aginst fraud and corruption."

Most corruption regarding EU funds happens at the national level.

"We don't want to subzidise olive grove and tobacco framers"

You just prefer we subsidize your beef framers (framer not being too wrong there). Just the usual fight over interests.

"and we don't want you stealing our pension funds."

Darling how can I possibly steal your pension fund ?

"We like our system of common law."

I like it too. And the problem with the EU there is close to nil.

"We agree with free trade and not propping up ailing industries."

Like Rover.

"We want to be able to not to automatically disagree with the US."

WHAT !?!? You're nuts.

	29-10-2002 14:33									#79
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In a united states of europe, there will be a problem with pensions in that there isn't adequate provison in most countries. Britain is rare in that a large number of people have non state provison therefore our taxes are lower. Our taxes will have to go up to meet pension demand this is in effect a tax on the fact we have large pension funds and therefore theft.

Subsidies to British farmers are as a result of the CAP if there aws no CAP British farmers would get even less,

Rover got about £30 in aid, in France or Germany the government would ahve bought it with tax payers money and hen pumped billions in.

The corruption may happen at national level, it should be stopped, its my taxes going to the mafia in Italy, there is no will at either european or national level to stop it.

If the EU had a common foreign policy it would often disagree with the US as it would be controlled by the French

	29-10-2002 14:58									#80
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"In a united states of europe, there will be a problem with pensions in that there isn't adequate provison in most countries."

No need to regulate pensions at the EU level.

"Rover got about £30 in aid"

They got a lot more. Clearly more than say Holzmann.

"there is no will at either european or national level to stop it."

There is. The cofunding principle, OLAF and new payback rules have made a lot of progress.

"If the EU had a common foreign policy it would often disagree with the US as it would be controlled by the French"

First it has a common foreign policy on many issues, and second France has just its votes - no single country can simply control it.

Last edited by Roland on 29-10-2002 at 15:05

	29-10-2002 15:04									#81
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Funny thing is that the Rover subsidies (as well as those for Holzmann) ran into trouble with EU state aid rules.

http://www.expressindia.com/fe/dail...8/fec28058.html

	29-10-2002 15:05									#82
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I should have said £30 mil in aid.

The EU wants a common foreign policy with no veto option.

I am disagreeing with a united sates of europe or specificaly Britains participation. In a united europe the centre will take more and more control of decision making, it is already happening. Look at the powers of the commission now comprared to 1973

Last edited by TheStinger on 29-10-2002 at 15:12

	29-10-2002 15:12									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Roland Funny thing is that the Rover subsidies (as well as those for Holzmann) ran into trouble with EU state aid rules. http://www.expressindia.com/fe/dail...8/fec28058.html

A one off subsidy for an ailing company isn't too bad, its when the state owns the company and can then constantly inject capital that is wrong. The big countries get away with this more than little ones. see Sabina and Air France

	29-10-2002 15:19									#84
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The rover package as suggested by the UK government was at least 150 million pounds.

"Look at the powers of the commission now comprared to 1973"

Ehm... what do you think I'll find ?

"its when the state owns the company and can then constantly inject capital that is wrong."

Like Railtrack.

"The big countries get away with this more than little ones. see Sabina and Air France"

Sabena was a lot less competitive than Air France. Anyway, AF is set for privatization. And on the state aid rules, big member states don't get a special break.

	29-10-2002 15:19									#85
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger I am disagreeing with a united sates of europe or specificaly Britains participation.

Oh, I'm sure the rest of the EU can do without the Britons. The question is, can the UK on the long run do without the EU?

quote: In a united europe the centre will take more and more control of decision making, it is already happening. Look at the powers of the commission now comprared to 1973

Ain't it nice to see things develop?

	29-10-2002 15:20									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Oh, I'm sure the rest of the EU can do without the Britons. The question is, can the UK on the long run do without the EU?

YES

	29-10-2002 15:34									#87
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We don't need your stinking EU! We are fed up with carrying the third world economies in Europe. We have hard taxation as it is, we don't need you, get out of here you communists. It's even worse with UK. I mean Britons.. what do you get? What do you give? Think about it.

Only thing good in EU is that I can travel and work etc. easily in other countries. There are like 10000 politicians working, deciding whether standard cell phone should be 7cm long and 4 wide.

United States of Europe? Yeaaaah sureee.. What a brilliant idea! Then we can really accomplish nothing because we like to fight each other. Then we can get TUrkey to join us, and it's nice, because they can torture me as much as they want, and it could be constitutional... if we want to bring something from their society (joke).
Stop this crap spreading, this is dangerous. I will fight this to the bitter end.

	29-10-2002 15:36									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Roland The rover package as suggested by the UK government was at least 150 million pounds. "Look at the powers of the commission now comprared to 1973" Ehm... what do you think I'll find ? "its when the state owns the company and can then constantly inject capital that is wrong." Like Railtrack. "The big countries get away with this more than little ones. see Sabina and Air France" Sabena was a lot less competitive than Air France. Anyway, AF is set for privatization. And on the state aid rules, big member states don't get a special break.

Railtrack was rubbish, it was a mistake a mistake rectified by the british government.

Rover got some aid in the form of tax breaks as well as grants in any case I am not saying that it was right to do that. However many companies are up aginst state owned competitors and this is unfair. IIRC VW is 40% by the local government.

I don't want the EU to have any further powers they keep expanding their remit and I personally think this should stop

	29-10-2002 15:55									#89
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"However many companies are up aginst state owned competitors and this is unfair. IIRC VW is 40% by the local government."

And if they subsidise the company they have EU state aid rules around their neck. Without the EU, what do you suggest ? tariffs ?

"I don't want the EU to have any further powers they keep expanding their remit and I personally think this should stop"

Perfectly acceptable opinion to have. Just wonder why you have to accompany it with falsehoods and halftruths ?

	29-10-2002 16:41									#90
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United States of Europe -> United Earth -> Federation of Planets