29-10-2002 16:48									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Roland "However many companies are up aginst state owned competitors and this is unfair. IIRC VW is 40% by the local government." And if they subsidise the company they have EU state aid rules around their neck. Without the EU, what do you suggest ? tariffs ? "I don't want the EU to have any further powers they keep expanding their remit and I personally think this should stop" Perfectly acceptable opinion to have. Just wonder why you have to accompany it with falsehoods and halftruths ?

In a free trade area there should be no subsidies or tariffs that is my position. The EU has rules, these rules are then fudged or ignored when it become convenient
that is not a half truth and not a falsehood.

BTW Britain sometimes benfits form fudging the rules this is still wrong.

It may the politicains in the UK's fault but we are constantly totld the goal of the EU is not further union when this is obviously bolloocks

	29-10-2002 16:53									#92
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"The EU has rules, these rules are then fudged or ignored when it become convenient
that is not a half truth and not a falsehood."

It is a halftruth as all rules, with the sole exception of the laws of nature, get fudged, ignored etc. It is in itself a completely pointless statement irrelevant to a pro or con of european integration.

"It may the politicains in the UK's fault but we are constantly totld the goal of the EU is not further union when this is obviously bolloocks"

Well when you joined in 1973 (and decided not to leave in 1975), it was absolutely no secret that economic integration was a vehicle for political integration - and the first serious plans for monetary union date back to the late 60s.

It is a total mystery to me how this has been supposedly hidden from the british public, and the british public only, for 30 years.

	29-10-2002 16:53									#93
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quote: By the way, FT is reporting that Britain put the Kaibash on "United States of Europe". Why so?

too American

	29-10-2002 16:56									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Roland "The EU has rules, these rules are then fudged or ignored when it become convenient that is not a half truth and not a falsehood." It is a halftruth as all rules, with the sole exception of the laws of nature, get fudged, ignored etc. It is in itself a completely pointless statement irrelevant to a pro or con of european integration. "It may the politicains in the UK's fault but we are constantly totld the goal of the EU is not further union when this is obviously bolloocks" Well when you joined in 1973 (and decided not to leave in 1975), it was absolutely no secret that economic integration was a vehicle for political integration - and the first serious plans for monetary union date back to the late 60s. It is a total mystery to me how this has been supposedly hidden from the british public, and the british public only, for 30 years.

Its been hidden in that whenever someone said this was the position it was denied by those in power. Anyone who said this was the goal is dismissed as xenophobic and inward looking.

Yes all politicains ignore rules and fudge things, maybe we just don't want another set doing it aswell as our own, the Uk also has one of the best reccords in complying with directives

	29-10-2002 17:04									#95
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"Its been hidden in that whenever someone said this was the position it was denied by those in power."

I didn't know that Thatcher was exactly a euro-federalist. The problem is that most of those who "said" it were raving about a centralized european "superstate" - and that is simply lunacy. It may complicated by Britain's lack of a federal tradition.

"maybe we just don't want another set doing it aswell as our own"

I was thinking more of the actual application of those rules - only a small part of those decisions is political.

"the Uk also has one of the best reccords in complying with directives"

It has. Saves you a lot of money.

	29-10-2002 17:12									#96
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There is a very good quote from the comedy show yes minister in it they said what the reactions to a european wide id card would be.

The germans would love it
The french would ignore it
the Italians wouldn't be able to organise it
the british would resent it.

simplistic but so true

	29-10-2002 17:17									#97
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The Stinger, Exactly my point.

	29-10-2002 17:18									#98
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Europe of two speeds, gentlemen...

	29-10-2002 17:20									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Europe of two speeds, gentlemen...

suits me

	29-10-2002 19:02									#100
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same here. so what's the problem?

	29-10-2002 19:04									#101
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Evil Eurocrats eating innocent english babies ?

	29-10-2002 19:14									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Roland Evil Eurocrats eating innocent english babies ?

Its compulsory isn't it

	29-10-2002 19:25									#103
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If the Sun says so...

	29-10-2002 19:27									#104
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger There is a very good quote from the comedy show yes minister in it they said what the reactions to a european wide id card would be. The germans would love it The french would ignore it the Italians wouldn't be able to organise it the british would resent it. simplistic but so true

"Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last five hundred years - to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now when it's worked so well."

	29-10-2002 19:32									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Roland If the Sun says so...

i may be many thingsbut i don't read the sun

	29-10-2002 19:33									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin "Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last five hundred years - to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now when it's worked so well."

It was a fantastic programme, so sad that 2 of the stars are now dead

	29-10-2002 20:24									#107
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Proposed name:

Eurocomia

	29-10-2002 21:46									#108
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Euro-coma more like.