04-11-2002 04:20									#1
	Questions about CtP or the Convince Tassadar Thread Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Hello I've read the reviews for Call to Power and ... it's recieved less than flattering reviews. However, I hear that it is *very* moddable (You can even mod it to Civ3?) and so I am considering buying it. I just have a few questions:

1. I hear the combat system in CtP 2is EXACTLY that of Civ3. Is this true?

2. What are the "ages" in CtP2?

3. What are good thigns about the game?

4. Bad thingS?

5. The hardest question of them all: Should I buy it

	04-11-2002 05:13									#2
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quote: 1. I hear the combat system in CtP 2is EXACTLY that of Civ3. Is this true?

Oh stopit, I can't take it, the laughing is hurting! No, CTP2's combat is not Civ3's (or the other way round if you like). CTP2's stacked combat is great as it allows for multi-function armies, and actually uses it. IE: If you have artillery, they will actually bombard the enemy as your infantry assault, and mobile units flank.

quote: 2. What are the "ages" in CtP2?

- Ancient
- Medieval
- Industrial
- Modern
- Genetic
- Diamond

quote: 3. What are good thigns about the game?

Read the other 3 million threads on this topic. I suppose the best ones are by Vel.

quote: 4. Bad thingS?

A couple of niggling bugs, but the modders are finding ways around them, or fixing them.

quote: 5. The hardest question of them all: Should I buy it

Up to you. But if you want a really good TBS Civ-style game, with excellent mods, great potential, more mods on the way, and for only $5, I'd say buy it.

But if you want a crappy, cut-down re-run, with dodgy graphics, 300 workers per turn to move, a patch that costs the same as the original game (PTW), a tech-tree to laugh at how pathetic and puny it is, phalanxs killing tanks and bombers, then I suggest you go buy Civ3.

	04-11-2002 05:15									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Kewl. Any other comments to try to convince me?

	04-11-2002 05:35									#4
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What I can say is look here...

Unmodded, CTP2 is not that hard, but Modded CTP2 is a very challenging game.

It does boil down to preferences though - PW vs Workers, more governments in CTP2 vs civ3 - in fact, more choices in just about every area of the game - stacked combat (CTP2) vs single one-on-one unit combat (civ3) - especially tedious when you have stacks of doom.

I will say that the diplomacy in civ3 is probably more in-depth than CTP2, but this does not negate the challenges of many of the main CTP2 Mods - they are tough on the highest levels.

For the cost (usually less than $10 for CTP2 now), CTP2 is a good buy - but in Modded form...

	04-11-2002 05:36									#5
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Hi, Tass

I've seen you talking about making scenarios on the Ron forums.

Do you have any programming experience?

If not, then CTP2 is probably the best platform to start learning about games-related event driven programming around. It will serve you well when Ron comes out.

	04-11-2002 06:37									#6
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Welcome Tassadar5000,

I can only say you should buy CtP2 and give it a try, this game is the best Civ-like game I have ever played. Dale has already summed up the good things about this game and hexagonian has rightly reminded us all this finally boils down to preferences.

You should buy this game, you won't loose much money if you don't like it, install it, download the Super Apolyton Pack v2.0 and play. The Super Apolyton Pack is mainly correcting the bugs of the original game and is strengthening the AI without changing the original game itself.

What I also like in CtP2 is that you can really play this game as you want, wether you are a conqueror or an empire builder the game is not forcing you to adopt a given strategy to win, you can design different strategy to win and will have to use different ones in accordance with the terrain, the neighbouring civilizations, etc.

Try this game but don't expect a Civ clone, this is a very different game with very different mechanisms. If you are not yet convinced read Velociryx comments on the game as Dale suggested it earlier.

	04-11-2002 15:11									#7
	BUY IT FOR SURE Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hi Tassadar5000

This is a common thread, maybe we should make a sticky which lists all the features and upcomming (Civ3 features) in CtP2, as there are so many.

All I can say is BUY IT NOW!!! Best TBS easily and probably best game IMO (that is modded)

I play Medieval Mod 2

but using the modswapper tool you can easily switch between mods and different options for the mods

however with upcomming mods like HotW that will have like all the best features from every mod

BUY IT!!!! (£5)
oh, and sell Civ3 cause you wont be playing it if you have CtP2 (if u have it)

	04-11-2002 16:29									#8
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I've both CTP2 and Civ3 and I must say Civ3 is nowhere near as good as a modded CTP2 or even the original game.

The best thing is though CTP2 is always being improved by the modders round here. If there's a feature you think the game may be missing then there's a dam good chance someone might be able to put it in. Even things like strategic resources are being worked on I believe!

Here's another topic by Vel but on the Cradle mod this time http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=64006

	04-11-2002 17:41									#9
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1. As Dale pointed out, CtP2's combat system is VERY different from Civ3's system. From what I heard, the latest patches of Civ3 (haven't played myself since v1.17 or whatever) do offer stacked movement similar to CtP2, but they still have the same old (IMNSHO) f*cked up single-unit combat system. CtP2 has actual stacked combat, as in you can attack with up to 12 units at a time (where melee units attack 'normally' while ranged units attack from the second line, flanking units cover the flanks and civilians take cover in the rear - providing you composed your stack wisely).

2. Unmodded CtP2 has the ages Dale mentioned except that the 'Industrial Age' he mentioned is actually called the Renaissance Age. Some of the mods add more ages, the best example being MedMod, which has 9 Ages:

- Ancient
- Classical*
- Medieval
- Renaissance
- Industrial*
- Modern
- Information*
- Genetic
- Diamond

(* = new)

3. What others said. We get several threads a week in this forum where people ask the same thing (Hmmm, about time that I started some 'introduction for newbies' guide, I suppose...). I found your tread right abouve this one when I woke up this morning and if this had been the OT, I would probably have closed this one for being a copycat You may want to check that thread out as well (aside from that, as others pointed out, read Vel's threads).

4. This is different for everyone. Some people totally worship this game and everything about it (particularly the mods, of coure ), others don't like it at all. Eventually, as hex pointed out, a lot boils down to preferences. If you think there could be better alternatives to the Settler/Worker system of Civ, you may like the PW system, if you think the 1-on-1 combat stinks, you may enjoy stacked combat, etc, etc... If you're perfectly happy with the Settler/worker system and think Civ's combat system is just fine, you may not like CtP's alternatives nearly as much, perhaps you'll even hate them. My own biggest petpeeve of CtP2 is the UI - it's not completely crap but it could have been a lot better - but I've heard other people who like the UI just fine. So there's really only one way to find out...

5. See previous point: a lot depends on preferences. But if you realize that you're basically buying over half a dozen games (the major mods and some scenarios are almost games in themselves) for €10ish (if not less), there's not much to lose... (except for many, many hours that could be spend doing more productive things )

	04-11-2002 17:56									#10
	if you like Inflate your Upload Space

the confusion and betreyel get World at war mod, a mod covering 1900-1950 it has it all...

Here is links to most of the mods (i think)

	04-11-2002 23:37									#11
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Locutus 2. Unmodded CtP2 has the ages Dale mentioned except that the 'Industrial Age' he mentioned is actually called the Renaissance Age. Some of the mods add more ages, the best example being MedMod, which has 9 Ages: - Ancient - Classical* - Medieval - Renaissance - Industrial* - Modern - Information* - Genetic - Diamond (* = new)

Actual Medieval was Wes' idea so you have totally 5 ages in the default game and ten ages in other mods like ApolytonPack, CityMod2 and IIRC Cradle.

3. Actual I don't have much to add only that I don't have to move 200 settlers per turn, I can manage my cities well, I am not asked every turn when a building, wonder or unit is finished what this and that city should build next, I can just make a long build queue and forget the city if no enemy appears.

4. Bad things, as Locutus mentioned the UI could be better, in some cases it is an improvement over the one of CTP1 in other cases it is the opposite, I think in the end it is just a question of getting used to it. The other problem is the AI in the unmodded game if you expect there one then you will be disapointed. If you play a mod then you will be surprised if you know the default AI and maybe killed, at least it is not easy. The last thing I don't like are these little bugs and unfinished thinks here and there, shure if you just play the game then you just might find the sea city sprite bug actual an annoying bug, too. But you can live with it.

5. And if you consider the prize then you can ignore CTP2 imperfectness, so that is actual the easiest question to answer, buy it.

-Martin

	04-11-2002 23:55									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Civ2/3 has a better cityscreen than CTP1/CTP2. Overall, I liked CTP1's setup the best though.

One thing I will say in defense of the CTP2 UI - I feel that the CTP2 interface provides more ingame hyperlinks to find important info than the civ3 interface, and much of the info seems to be more clearly presented (example - civ3 used pics on the ingame tech tree to define what each advance gives, but does not label those pics, so I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what I was getting for each advance - and Firaxis was too cheap to provide a tech tree poster with the regular game. (although the cheap version of CTP2 now available doesn't have a poster/manual either)

	05-11-2002 00:00									#13
	Put an end to popups!

I prefer CtP2 UI except the city screen which is clumsy. This I prefered i CtP1 where it was displayed at the bottom which was good.


Talking about Civ3 being cheap. I UK anyway they didnt even provide a CD case for Civ3. The game was inside a paper and see through plastic wallet UNBELIEVABLE

	05-11-2002 00:09									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

SMIFFGIG, I'll sell you my biscuit tin.

	05-11-2002 00:17									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

LOL! So you where lured into buying the SPECIAL edition of Civ3 where you, well i mean at least you got a biscuit tin, but for £50 thats rather expensive



Anyway ill be probably throwing it in a bin or donating it to some car boot sale in the near future so im not really bothered btw did it have a CD Case ?

	05-11-2002 02:22									#16
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My civ3 had a CD case...

	05-11-2002 03:39									#17
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quote: I prefer CtP2 UI except the city screen which is clumsy.

Once i had plans to change the CTP2 city screen.
Decrease the nunber of tabs (all main screens have two tabs (or less), so why the city screen has five plus the build screen??? I wish i had time to change that.
Maybe on the next year vacations

Still this is the only week poin of the CTP2 interface though. Thats my oppinion though.

	05-11-2002 03:39									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The main problem with the CtP2 interface is to get used to it. Once you have learned how to use it the interface becomes a powerful tool at your service for the management of your empire and its cities. Though this interface sometimes lacks a bit of flexibility, I like it.

Once again, it boils down to preferences...

	05-11-2002 03:41									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

Actually....I'm hooked everyone! I'm planning on buying it in an hour or tow, actually

But another question: There are sooo many mods! Which one should I choose?

	05-11-2002 03:53									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Actually....I'm hooked everyone! I'm planning on buying it in an hour or tow, actually

All resistance is futile...

quote: But another question: There are sooo many mods! Which one should I choose?

As far as I'am concerned I have only played the original game and the Apolyton Pack Mod.

I think you should try the Super Apolyton Pack v2.0 (SAP2) first as it is mainly correcting the bugs of the original game and is raising the level of the AI, you will have a real feeling of what the game can be.

After that, don't worry a bunch of kind people around here will tell you what the mods are and will tell you what are the differences between them.

	05-11-2002 04:03									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The one you prefer.

There are 4 major mods

Apolyton Pack - If you want to have a good nice game with the original features.

Craddle - A lot of new stuff for the ancient age.

World At War - For those who only wants to play the modern age (it cuts the ancient and the future age)

MedMod2 - Changes all ages but it is a bit old since Wes (the creator) has left apolyton a couple of months ago

Plus:

GoodMod - Adds new goods (23) and improves the AI a bit more.
Its installation give an expansion of its feature to others major mods.

The other mods are minor mods that only changes one (or few) specific parts of the game.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 05-11-2002 at 04:37

	05-11-2002 04:25									#22
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Tassadar5000, have a look in the CTP2/Creations/Mod forum. There should be a topped thread giving you all the info on the various Mods.( I would link it but it seems you have to type a huge amount of text?)

Starting with the basic game isn't a bad idea - it's fairly passive and will give you a chance to get used to the interface and general game play. Then Apolyton(SAP) is good to start on. If you like ancient age try Craddle. What's nice is that each one is different enough to give you a whole new game to play around with, without changing the fundimentals.

Have fun and welcome to one of those gaming gems that most people looked over

	05-11-2002 08:08									#23
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I might get around to trying some of the mods. I found CtP2 a bit slow-paced, and I despise the trade model almost as much as the Civ3 trade model (or lack thereof).

Anyone have plans to revamp the trade model other than adding more goods? To me it is like having Civ2 trade without delivery bonuses and requiring multiple caravans to complete routes.

	05-11-2002 08:10									#24
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Just got it...things arent looking good. I can't install the patch because apparently it doesnt detect my copy of CtP2..........

......

	05-11-2002 08:20									#25
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Let me guess, Win2K?
Look in the apolyton CTP2 database you will find an install yourself patch which you just need to unzip it in the CTP2 main directory to have the patch.

Miscelaneous section page 4

Last edited by Pedrunn on 05-11-2002 at 08:30

	05-11-2002 08:44									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yep, discovered it.....now everythings working....sort of. I decided to install that WW2 mod and a few others (including the apolyton one) and i did install Modswapper...however Modswapper doesnt seem to recognize each and every one of them. So I'm not sure what to do......UPDATE: It seems as if WW2 mod is not installing at all! I can't find it anywhere!

Also, my settlers have gone out of control!! I try to move them, but soon they just seem to want to move back to my cities and no matter what I do, they'll automatically move. Not being able to control your own units is pretty bad. UPDATE: I thought it was a garrisoning problem...so I built a military un it, but every tern the settler plots a course that ends up inside the city, no matter where he is. cancelling his orders every single time gets quite old....

Last edited by Comrade Tassadar on 05-11-2002 at 09:38

	05-11-2002 13:45									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Can't say I've ever seen that problem myself but there's a similar topic here http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=65313

I'd suggest playing SAP first as it is how the game should of been.

	05-11-2002 16:21									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Yep, discovered it.....now everythings working....sort of. I decided to install that WW2 mod and a few others (including the apolyton one) and i did install Modswapper...however Modswapper doesnt seem to recognize each and every one of them. So I'm not sure what to do......UPDATE: It seems as if WW2 mod is not installing at all! I can't find it anywhere!

Are you sure the mods are correctly installed ? Have a look at the Read Me files, you have perhaps forgotten something.

About the World at War mod, it seems you have not unzipped the files at the right place. When they are extracted, the files are following a given path, if the directory you have selected for the extraction is not the good one, the files will extract themselves in the wrong place. I had the same problem the first time I installed the SAP2 mod. Check the contents of your Activision/CtP2 folder, you will certainly find another CtP2 folder inside your original CtP2 folder or someting like that.

At the end of the installation process don't forget the "DebugSlic=No".

quote: Also, my settlers have gone out of control!! I try to move them, but soon they just seem to want to move back to my cities and no matter what I do, they'll automatically move. Not being able to control your own units is pretty bad. UPDATE: I thought it was a garrisoning problem...so I built a military un it, but every tern the settler plots a course that ends up inside the city, no matter where he is. cancelling his orders every single time gets quite old....

Don't worry this is a bug of the SAP2 that has not been corrected yet, it is only concerning the second settler you begin with and won't appear later in the game.

Here is a solution : after you have built your first city, move your second settler and before ending your turn put your settler to sleep (when your unit is selected click on the gray button in the task bar in the lower right part of the screen), when it's once again your turn to play, wake your settler, move, put it asleep, end your turn, wake him up, move, etc. As soon as you will have built your second city the bug won't appear again.

	05-11-2002 16:58									#29
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quote: Originally posted by SMIFFGIG LOL! So you where lured into buying the SPECIAL edition of Civ3 where you, well i mean at least you got a biscuit tin, but for £50 thats rather expensive Anyway ill be probably throwing it in a bin or donating it to some car boot sale in the near future so im not really bothered btw did it have a CD Case ?

No CD case. Both the game CD and the Making of video CD merely had a paper half-slip cover.

Just as well you don't want it, I guess. If you did, I would have to find somewhere else to keep my spare paperclips.

	06-11-2002 23:09									#30
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Yep, discovered it.....now everythings working....sort of. I decided to install that WW2 mod and a few others (including the apolyton one) and i did install Modswapper...however Modswapper doesnt seem to recognize each and every one of them. So I'm not sure what to do......UPDATE: It seems as if WW2 mod is not installing at all! I can't find it anywhere!

When you say 'WW2 Mod' do you mean the Activision WW2 scenario or Dale's WAW mod? If it's the scenario, it's probably because the auto-installer of Activision isn't (entirely?) compatible with Win2k/WinXP, I can't properly install it myself either (I get a german version ). I think Maq's working on a manual installer though...
If you have problems with other mods, please mention which one(s) and what kind of problems, we'll be glad to help...

quote: Also, my settlers have gone out of control!!

Yes, that's a known bug of the Apolyton Pack, we're trying to find the cause but it's quite a stubborn bug, that one. Fortunately, it only happens with yours initial settler units, once you've founded 2 cities the problem is gone for good. Araby mentioned a few days ago that you can avoid the problem by disabling 'auto-select next unit' in Advanced Options, at least in the first few turns of your game.