08-11-2002 10:14									#121
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist Ramo, a birth mark is also a birth defect. Doesn't mean that people with birth marks are inferior.

How is it a birth defect?

Are you aware of the definition of defect?

It's almost scary how you have a definition of an ideal human being, and anyone who doesn't match that has a defect.

Humans are diverse, humans are different. A man that loves another man isn't a defective man. He's just a man who is gay.

A woman with red hair isn't defective. She's just a red-head.

An intolerant man who doesn't realize the implications of his comment, though, is mentally defective.

	08-11-2002 10:15									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Asher And I see you're into football and weightlifting too. The stereotypical "tough guy" who doesn't realizing he's developing all the wrong muscles...

Nope, I know how to train properly. I hate the tough guys in the gym who do as much weight as they can with as little form as possible while exercising only their biceps... anyway.

quote: I'm glad there's not a lot of people like you. Your political ideas, your social ideas...God, you sound like a slightly more tame version of Hitler. Who knows what'd happen if people gave you power.

There are more people like me out there than you would think. As for the power thing

quote: Were you neglected as a child?

nope.

	08-11-2002 10:15									#123
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I promise you, nationalist, I haven't said anything here I wouldn't say to your face.

And in order to equate homosexual behavior to the other forms of animal behavior you mention, you'd have to show how it is somehow detrimental to the other animal or the general animal society/population. There's no evidence that either human or animal homosexual behavior has any sort of detrimental effect on their respective societies (although homophobia certainly DOES by instilling in many millions of individuals a sense of hatred for others and fear of those who hate and what they might do).

Homosexuality, in and of itself, does no harm to the consenting adults involved above and beyond what heterosexuality does. Sure, there are lots of f*cked up gays out there, but there's lots of f*cked up straights, too, so that doesn't prove a thing.

Now as to it being a "defect," one could rationally say being left-handed is also a "defect." But we don't care, because people being left-handed doesn't hurt anyone else and it generates revenue for the highly-specified left-handed scissor industry. Likewise, homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone and helps keep capitalism going through a steady influx of money into the ecomony based on gay-oriented businesses. There's no need to "fix" anything.

	08-11-2002 10:18									#124
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist Nope, I know how to train properly. I hate the tough guys in the gym who do as much weight as they can with as little form as possible while exercising only their biceps... anyway.

The psychology behind people who weightlift for the purpose of large muscle development (which you seem to be doing) is quite interesting. Many of the theories revolve around making up for other inadequacies, or insecurities... Makes you wonder.

But that's another thread.

	08-11-2002 10:21									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Furthermore I'd like to know what you meant by the statement that the arousal of the amygdala is linked to people of different races... Every race has an amygdala. I know of no well accepted study showing that races have a difference in the size or structure of their amygdalas... Like I said above the science of neurometrics is fraught with confounding factors. In general you should wait until a finding has been independently confirmed several times before accepting it.

That's not what I meant. We were learning about it in my Natural Psych classes last year. From what we read it said that there is a reaction in the amygdala when a person from one race looks at a person from a different race that isn't as strong when they look at someone from the same race. Linked witha fear reaction, may be a factor in racism. I did not mean to imply that some races were without an amygdala. My books from last semester are at home, but if you want I can give you a biliography of the readings that we did on it through P.M. in a week or so.

	08-11-2002 10:23									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It's almost scary how you have a definition of an ideal human being, and anyone who doesn't match that has a defect.

That was a joke, Asher. I thought it was funny.

	08-11-2002 10:24									#127
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist That was a joke, Asher. I thought it was funny.

We shall have you destroyed for your lack of humour.

	08-11-2002 10:26									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The psychology behind people who weightlift for the purpose of large muscle development (which you seem to be doing) is quite interesting. Many of the theories revolve around making up for other inadequacies, or insecurities...

My theory is that I do it for my health. Muscle mass helps to burn calories. Combine weightlifting, aerobic exercise, and a good diet and you prevent obesity, which is linked to many diseases. BTW, why does every argument have something to do with inadequcy? It seems to me that the people who make those arguments are insecure about something.

	08-11-2002 10:27									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Asher We shall have you destroyed for your lack of humour.

You're the one who flipped out.

	08-11-2002 10:30									#130
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Asher means that, because you thought it was funny, you must have an awful sense of humor.

I'd say don't quit your day job for a career in stand-up.

	08-11-2002 10:33									#131
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist You're the one who flipped out.

Because it wasn't funny?

How was that a joke?

quote: BTW, why does every argument have something to do with inadequcy? It seems to me that the people who make those arguments are insecure about something.

Because that's what the topic is, more or less.

That and I'm obviously insecure about my sexuality.

	08-11-2002 10:34									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I promise you, nationalist, I haven't said anything here I wouldn't say to your face.

I believe you, because you haven't resorted to ad hominems like everyone else has.

quote: And in order to equate homosexual behavior to the other forms of animal behavior you mention, you'd have to show how it is somehow detrimental to the other animal or the general animal society/population.

I'm just saying that animal behavior isn't a good justification for anything we do.

quote: Sure, there are lots of f*cked up gays out there, but there's lots of f*cked up straights, too

I agree with you here.

quote: Now as to it being a "defect," one could rationally say being left-handed is also a "defect." But we don't care, because people being left-handed doesn't hurt anyone else

There are no left handed political groups trying to cram their handedness down their throats, either. Sexuality is a politically charged topic, and somtimes you use words refering to subject that you wouldn't use in a different situation. Maybe you aren't a gay militant, but I've had to deal with enough of them to know that the gay/straight debate isn't as much about tolerance as it is about power. Or at least that is what my flamboyantly gay RA would tell us everyday after he cursed us "damn heteros". Bigotry goes both ways.

	08-11-2002 10:36									#133
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DP

	08-11-2002 10:38									#134
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist There are no left handed political groups trying to cram their handedness down their throats, either.

Argh, you are such a moron...

Can you please show me one gay rights group which tries to make everyone gay?

Incase you haven't noticed, nationalist, gays do not enjoy the same rights straights take for granted. So now when there are activist groups which try to remedy the situation they're "cramming it down everyone's throats"?

Give me a break.

I'm surprised you haven't gotten your ass kicked by a bunch of flamey queens yet. Or would you not talk about this in person?

	08-11-2002 10:38									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Asher means that, because you thought it was funny, you must have an awful sense of humor. I'd say don't quit your day job for a career in stand-up.

I guess my brand of sarcasm doesn't translate over the computer very well. I knew what he meant.

	08-11-2002 10:43									#136
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quote: I'm just saying that animal behavior isn't a good justification for anything we do.

So please explain to us how homosexuality affects anything, so as to be called a defect...

Animal behavior isn't the justification behind doing it, but it is certainly natural since it appears in nature, and you shouldn't HAVE to justify doing it since it occurs between two consenting adults.

The only people who oppose homosexuality are the latent homosexuals or the God-fearing religious groups who think they're doing everyone a favor.

	08-11-2002 10:43									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Argh, you are such a moron...

On the second thought, I would definately kick your ass, even though you are squirrely, gay, Canadian Computer programmer. Wouldn't be a challenge, but it would teach you some humility. Plus, it would embarass you that this ignorant bigot is probably smarter than you.

quote: "cramming it down everyone's throats"? Give me a break.

Read the goddamn post.

quote: I'm surprised you haven't gotten your ass kicked by a bunch of flamey queens yet. Or would you not talk about this in person?

No, one of them slapped me but he broke his nail.

	08-11-2002 10:46									#138
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist On the second thought, I would definately kick your ass, even though you are squirrely, gay, Canadian Computer programmer. Wouldn't be a challenge, but it would teach you some humility. Plus, it would embarass you that this ignorant bigot is probably smarter than you.

I'm sure you'd feel like an even bigger man, even get a kick off of the homoerotic features of man-to-man fighting, but I don't think it'd happen.

I'm not your typical "gay computer programmer" and I'd be more than willing to show you that if you ever come up here.

And that "smarter" comment...man, that's great. What're you studying again, history? What do you support again, nationalism? What're you advocating here, that homosexuality is a defect? You're an uneducated pseudointellectual that thinks highly of himself, but everyone around him thinks lowly of him...so he resorts to weightlifting to boost his selfesteem.

quote: Read the goddamn post.

I did. Perhaps you should figure out how to express yourself.

	08-11-2002 10:46									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So please explain to us how homosexuality affects anything, so as to be called a defect...

I don't know. Maybe its not a defect. Maybe its natural selection, you know, weeding out those weak genes from the old gene pool. Either way, I'd fix it in my kid because I personally want to have grandchildren and pass on my genetic code.

	08-11-2002 10:47									#140
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist I'm just saying that animal behavior isn't a good justification for anything we do.

When the right-wing continues the old line that homosexuality is somehow a conscious choice, it is important to use information, such as that found in this study, to show that sexuality is an involuntary thing (although anyone with an ounce of rationality should be able to deduce that by mere observation of the torment gays undergo from an unaccepting society). That this happens to be animals is not the point, as it is reinforcing similar studies of human brains.

quote: There are no left handed political groups trying to cram their handedness down their throats, either.

First, there are no societal prohibitions against anyone being left-handed nor any social stigma. Hence there is no need for any political group. Were the same true for sexuality, I bet sexuality-based political groups would vanish.

Second, let's drop the standard "cram down the throats" terminology. Besides being bizarely homoerotic in itself, it's a tired saying. The mere existence of gays isn't cramming anything down your throat, and certainly it is microscopic the the heterosexuality I get "crammed" into me everyday. I'm not whining about being forced to witness such things, because I don't care about it and realize that it's a pretty silly thing to get upset over.

quote: Sexuality is a politically charged topic, and somtimes you use words refering to subject that you wouldn't use in a different situation. Maybe you aren't a gay militant, but I've had to deal with enough of them to know that the gay/straight debate isn't as much about tolerance as it is about power.

There are certainly extremists on all sides of debates. However, the actions of extremists do not invalidate the very real goals of the rest, which is indeed to seek social tolerance and acceptance of gays.

quote: Or at least that is what my flamboyantly gay RA would tell us everyday after he cursed us "damn heteros". Bigotry goes both ways.

I fail to see what his "flamboyancy" has to do with it, except that you are using it as an insult. I know gays of all stripes, and flamboyancy has nothing to do with militancy on political issues.

I've also never encountered a gay man who had any hatred towards all heterosexuals. I don't doubt they exist, but they are undoubtedly a very rare creature. To somehow compare sexuality bigotry between the two groups is laughable, and frankly, pretty off-topic for this thread...

	08-11-2002 10:49									#141
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist I don't know. Maybe its not a defect. Maybe its natural selection, you know, weeding out those weak genes from the old gene pool.

Oh, you're a genius!
It's natural selection, because after ALL THESE YEARS it's STILL WITH US in a very meaningful fashion. Do you understand what natural selection is...

quote: Either way, I'd fix it in my kid because I personally want to have grandchildren and pass on my genetic code.

Personally I'd hope most parents in today's world would be more worried about having children such as yourself as opposed to children such as Boris...

	08-11-2002 10:52									#142
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"On the second thought, I would definately kick your ass, even though you are squirrely, gay, Canadian Computer programmer. Wouldn't be a challenge, but it would teach you some humility. Plus, it would embarass you that this ignorant bigot is probably smarter than you."

Resorting to threats of violence is wrong and a sure sign of losing the argument.

	08-11-2002 10:53									#143
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I also believe it's very much against forum rules, and also indicative of a base personality. Discussion over.

	08-11-2002 10:53									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm sure you'd feel like an even bigger man, even get a kick off of the homoerotic features of man-to-man fighting, but I don't think it'd happen.

Typical retort. Why do gay people always do that? It doesn't bother me if you call me gay. I'm not. I know it and am secure in it. Might as well call me black or asian.

quote: I'm not your typical "gay computer programmer" and I'd be more than willing to show you that if you ever come up here.

This pissing contest is pretty stupid. We're never giong to meet, so we should stop with these stupid threats.

quote: I did. Perhaps you should figure out how to express yourself.

Sorry, maybe its because I am working on a paper while I type on this thread and I don't want to spend my valuable time writing you a detailed narrative on how my gay RA and his gay student group would come and push thier beliefs on us.

Quick anecdote: My friends and I were watching T.V. and eating Papa John's Pizza. He comes in and asks if he can have a breadstick. We give him one and don't think a thing of it... until he starts deep throating it. We yell at him and he says he just loves to suck ****. He was in charge of us, and he blatently rubbing his sexuality in our faces. I never went up to him and started licking a raw clam saying "God, I love to eat *****" He crossed a line, and so did all of his pushy flamer friends. I have many more stories like that to tell.

	08-11-2002 10:54									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Personally I'd hope most parents in today's world would be more worried about having children such as yourself as opposed to children such as Boris...

How do your parents feel about that?

	08-11-2002 10:56									#146
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist Typical retort. Why do gay people always do that? It doesn't bother me if you call me gay. I'm not. I know it and am secure in it. Might as well call me black or asian.

Mmhmm...you're totally straight.
You just have a massive need to prove you masculinity to gay people.

quote: This pissing contest is pretty stupid. We're never giong to meet, so we should stop with these stupid threats.

We?

quote: I have many more stories like that to tell.

Do you have any idea how many more stories I could tell about "straight people cramming their sexuality down my throat"?

Get real...

	08-11-2002 10:57									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Resorting to threats of violence is wrong and a sure sign of losing the argument.

We weren't even having a real argument in the first place. He just unleashed a string of ad hominems. I retorted. I made him mad, he made me mad, and if I get banned for it I don't care. I only come here about one week a month, and I can get into an actual argument/fight at my school.

	08-11-2002 10:57									#148
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist How do your parents feel about that?

My parents? They don't know.

I have no idea what they'd prefer. It's none of their business so they don't know.

	08-11-2002 10:59									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Mmhmm...you're totally straight. You just have a massive need to prove you masculinity to gay people.

You're doing it again. Everything is overcompensating for something, isn't it? Bullshit. What are you overcompensating for? Those are just easy attacks to make on someone, and most people have long rejected them.

	08-11-2002 10:59									#150
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist We weren't even having a real argument in the first place. He just unleashed a string of ad hominems. I retorted.

It wasn't a real argument to begin with, that's right. You started with a whole bunch of false premises and reached a false conclusion.

I'm controlled a bit too much by emotion, but that's just how I'm built, and I won't apologize for it.

I think what you stand for and your opinion on the matter is uninformed, bigoted, offensive, and downright stupid, and it wasn't worth the energy to calmly debate you logically since it's clear logic is over your head to begin with.