11-11-2002 07:08									#1
	Builders team: Which civ??? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

As I said in another thread, I think we should be greece to defend against the warrior/archer/horsemen rush. Persia and Egypt are also good chioces.

What do you gys think, I was at my dads this weekend so this is my first post since friday. (My dad's WebTV doesn't let me post. )

	11-11-2002 07:09									#2
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As an outside voice, I pitch in a vote for Greece. Those Hoplites are as annoying as any unit you'll find until Knights.

	11-11-2002 07:55									#3
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1) Carthage (gotta love the 2/3 UU coming with bronze working)
2) Persia (Insustrious scientific, and a fearsome UU)
3) Greece (hoplites)

Edit : you might be interested in this thread, and also this one.
I think you didn't notice them.

Last edited by Spiffor on 11-11-2002 at 08:14

	11-11-2002 17:32									#4
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From what I gather :

Jack_www :
1) Carthage
2) Egyptians
3) Ottomans

ZargonX :
Edit :
1) Persia
2) Egypt
3) Carthage

Odin :
1) Greece
2) Egypt
3) Persia

Spiffor :
1) Carthage
2) Persia
3) Greece

Redstar1 :
1) Carthage
2) Egypt
3) Persia
--------------------------------------------------
1st vote gets 3 points, 2nd vote 2 points, and 3rd vote 1 point.

Carthage : 10
Egypt : 8
Persia : 7
Greece : 4
Ottomans : 1

The winner is Carthage ! We have to decide how to play RPS against the RP team.
If any mistake has been done, please correct me.

Edit : changed ZargonX's votes for 2nd and 3rd choice, as clarified later.

Last edited by Spiffor on 13-11-2002 at 11:42

	11-11-2002 17:54									#5
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1. Carthage
2. Egypt
3. Persia

	11-11-2002 17:57									#6
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grrr.... that means we'll have to rock-papyrus-flint for Carthage, doesn't it?

	11-11-2002 18:11									#7
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Spiffor, et al,

As I just posted in my team's thread, we're going to need a neutral mediator for this. The chosen representative of each team will PM their RPS choice to said mediator and the mediator will post each choice (to guarantee that the mediator didn't change them) along with the result (though the result should be obvious ). If multiple rounds are needed, that can be done.

We just need to find a truly neutral mediator (thus not someone on another team).

	11-11-2002 20:19									#8
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In the interests of getting it over with quickly I'm happy to mediate. I know I'm on one of the teams concerned but fair play is what it is all about and I'm not likely to start cheating before the game has begun.

In any case, I'm available if needed.

D

	11-11-2002 21:25									#9
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Same here, I would volunteer too, although I'm a member of a different team. If there are doubts, how about that:

- You wait for yet more volunteers.
- You send your RPS choices to 2 or 3 different volunteers by PM.
- None of them knows, who the other volunteers are you have chosen.
- They respond by PM to Spiffor and Arnelos respectively.

This adds another layer of security.

Btw, I think the question is not that important. Even if the other teams could rig the result... the Carthaginians will be in the game in all cases, and I think nobody really cares if they are ruled by one or another team.

	11-11-2002 21:29									#10
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As stated in the other thread:

I am happy to be a/the moderator as well. If nothing else, those playing the C3DG should know of my unbias and fair nature. Yes, I am on a different team, but how does that really matter? My team will be facing Carthage as an opponent, does it really matter (to my team) which team has them?

	11-11-2002 21:55									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Same here, I would volunteer too, although I'm a member of a different team. If there are doubts, how about that: - You wait for yet more volunteers. - You send your RPS choices to 2 or 3 different volunteers by PM. - None of them knows, who the other volunteers are you have chosen. - They respond by PM to Spiffor and Arnelos respectively. This adds another layer of security. Btw, I think the question is not that important. Even if the other teams could rig the result... the Carthaginians will be in the game in all cases, and I think nobody really cares if they are ruled by one or another team.

Good idea SirRalph

	11-11-2002 22:13									#12
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I don't think I should mediate because I'll find a way to make both teams lose.

	12-11-2002 01:41									#13
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Well, the mediator COULD effect whether they were facing Spain or Egypt

	12-11-2002 02:33									#14
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I'm going to bed now, so I won't be available to play RPS this night. I support Jack_www to do so.

	12-11-2002 04:30									#15
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Sounds like Carthage, Time to march some African Elephants across the Alps.

	12-11-2002 07:58									#16
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Odin, you still have to RPS against us for it

Either way, even though I'm annoyed at you guys for picking Carthage - you can consider me "builder-friendly"... as I AM a member of the DIA in the single-player DG, afterall...

Oddly enough, your strategy might just work out... you're the only team (other than PERHAPS our team, depending on who is the despot at the time...) that anyone can reasonably TRUST not to come storming over the hills to wipe them out.... all of the other teams seem to have made it abundantly clear that they can't be trusted in the long-term... Now, to be fair, alliances of mutual interest can still be formed and quite certainly will be, but there's not quite the basis of trust that would seem to exist if someone was allied to you guys...

That COULD mean you could hold off the Glory of War faction (or whoever sets there sites on you) and pursue your builder strat successfully... it's possible.

I'm honestly going to be very interested as to how you guys fair as a builder team in the midst of a bunch of ostensibly warmongering teams... Whether you guys survive and excel will provide a very good window into what the multi-site game will be like.

Now, of course it's always possible that you guys are REALLY CLEVER and are just masquerading as builders ... but, somehow I doubt it

Good luck.

	12-11-2002 08:22									#17
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I am up for this rock paper thing, but who will moderate?
I would like use to be Egypt as our second choice.

	12-11-2002 13:19									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Sounds like Carthage, Time to march some African Elephants across the Alps.

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Now, of course it's always possible that you guys are REALLY CLEVER and are just masquerading as builders ... but, somehow I doubt it

They are just masquerading. No doubt here .

	12-11-2002 14:33									#19
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Shh

We might have a penchant for building a strong infrastructure but that doesn't mean we are not going to be able to defend ourselves...

	12-11-2002 17:45									#20
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I was having a think about this today and the more I think the more I realise that Egypt really isn't going to suit our needs. Of course our best option is Carthage but for a second shouldn't we pick a Civ with a better UU. Really, the Egyptian UU is going to have very limited use for ourselves.

What does everyone else think?

	12-11-2002 18:38									#21
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My second choice is still Persia, so I'd say I agree

	13-11-2002 02:40									#22
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redstar1, then go with Persia...

	13-11-2002 02:57									#23
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Well guys we may get Carthage after all, The Role player team is not sure if they want Carthage after all and they ask us to give them 2 days to figure out if they want Carthage or not. But if they decide they want Carthage, then we will have to go with our second choice.

	13-11-2002 07:26									#24
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I still say we should be Greece for early game rush protection.

(Those warmongering barbarian trying to beat our hoplites.

	13-11-2002 10:03									#25
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Ah, I would definately choose Persia over Egypt. I suppose I didn't make my preferences clear. I know it's been mentioned on other threads, and probably isn't an issue anyway, but I am also decidedly anti-French. Nothing against pink, but like Redstar said, I don't know that everyone is going to be playing a nice game of diplomacy...

	13-11-2002 12:54									#26
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Updated the voting list as per ZargonX' changes. Egypt remains our second choice.

	13-11-2002 12:58									#27
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You know Egypt has a good early UU too.

	13-11-2002 21:10									#28
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Outside voice here...but Carthage should be your first choice, then Greece or Persia. I still don't know why people don't like France if they can't be Carthage...oh well, the universe is full of crazy people...You do realize that you could build two spearmen in the time it takes to build one Numidian Merc??? UU is only a concern for me if I am to play a militant thug... Greece has a great early stand-off UU, but it's not Industrial....(shrug)

	13-11-2002 23:16									#29
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Greeting from the Roleplay Tribe.

We are in the midst of a very involved discussion about our civ choice. Many amongst us (and I am one) feel that Carthage is an ideal builder civ and perhaps not entirely suited to us. We are, however, having a hard time giving up it's wonderful early UU and traits ... the very things that lead you to choose it as your first choice.

I just wanted to say that I will do what I can to push the tribe to give up Carthage and present it to you. We want your team to be successful and wish you all the best of luck. We may not have the idea traits of Carthage, but we're a roleplaying team. Our goal is to have fun, so I hope to see us pick a civ with a lot of "character."

--Togas

	14-11-2002 00:46									#30
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As a role-playing team...maybe the Celts or the Spanish would be best-suited...even the Babylonians???