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player1
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Belgrade, YU
Sep 2001
time: 06:23
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Patch suggestion MOD - PtW version 1.24 readme (based on 1.27f PtW patch)
Author: player1
Why "patch suggestion"? Simple. These are the changes that if added to original Civ3 rules (based on v1.27f PtW patch) would improve game balance and fun. I tried using the conservative concept of not changing the rules too much, if not necessary, in order to keep original Civ3 flavor. I hope that players of this MOD will find game more fun and interesting.
INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS:
Just put BIX file in scenario folder.
Load from game menu.
Here is the link to non-PtW version.
Extended version with improved civilopedia and tech screen can be found here.
Comments to changes in v1.24
MOD has been made compatible with v1.27f PtW patch.
MOD CHANGES
Upgrade paths:
Longbowmen and Med. Infantry upgrade to Riflemen. This way, AI won't have huge army of sword & bow units in early industrial era. And in reality, rifles did made sword & bow obsolete.
For similar reasons, to prevent having ability to build these units in modern age, Frigate, Man-O-War, Privateer and Ironclad upgrade to Destroyer. True, it does look odd to upgrade sailing ship to Destroyer, but look at the costs. To upgrade Frigate you need 120gp per unit.
Submarines get upgraded to Nuc. Submarines. Considering that Nuc. Submarines are better in every way, there are obvious reasons for new upgrade chain.
Unit flags:
All artillery units, Scout, Explorer and Leader get Airlift flag. I don't know why they are skipped in normal rules, since you can airlift tank. On the other hand Presidents (and other Leaders) do fly by the plane too.
Foot Unit flag added to Scout, Explorer and Leader units, in order to make them transferable by helicopters. Since these units already got Airlift ability, there is no good reason to prevent their transport by helicopters.
All artillery units, Tanks, Panzer Tanks, Modern Armor and Mech. Infantry gain Wheeled ability. This prevents moving them on Jungle and Mountain tiles if there is no road.
Note: You can move those units on enemy roads, you just don't get road movement bonus.
Normally, Cruise Missiles can be loaded into transports directly, but not from city since they have no active "load flag". I fixed that bug and added load flag when needed.
Mech. Inf. has no more offense AI flag selected (has only defense AI flag now).
Since AI used too much Mech. Inf. instead of Tanks when planning attacks (and built Tanks rarely). This should fix that AI behavior.
All King units get Airlift and Foot Unit flags. Considering that all King units have Load ability (which makes them transportable by ships), I think that having them with these abilities should be allowed too (it even makes some interesting strategies for MP).
Rate of fire:
Fighters and Jet Fighters get ROF of 2. I always wondered why Catapults have better bombard values then Jet Fighters. This will make those units not great bombers, but still useful since they also now have lethal bombardment ability.
Cannon and Hwacha get ROF of 2, but their price increases to 60 shields. This is done because normally, Cannon firepower is on average weaker then firepower of two catapults. This should make these units much more worthy and will reduce some micromanagement.
Cruise Missiles get ROF of 4 to make them more devastating, and cost-effective (since they get destroyed after attack). Also, if they are lucky, they can kill 3hp (or even 4hp) Battleship.
Air unit tweaks:
Fighters, Jet Fighters, F-15 and Stealth Fighters get lethal sea and land bombard (they can kill units with bombards). All these units get Air bombard AI flag added.
Why?
These units are tactical bombers. They do their job from close distance. That way they can take out 1hp units. This won't be unbalanced since these units are much worse bombers then standard Bomber unit, and land units have huge defensive bonuses.
Jet Fighters get bombard strength of 4, to make them more distinctive from Fighters. They do have rockets anyway. Since it would lead to less powerful F-15 & Stealth Fighter, these units get increased bombard strength of 6.
In order to balance out increased Stl. Fighters bombard efficiency (compared to Stl. Bombers), Stl. Fighters gets new price of 160 shields. Costly, but anything less would make use of Stl. Bomber meaningless since Stl. Fighter has lethal bombard abilities.
Bombers get their range increased to 8. Large bombers usually have extra fuel tanks, which give them higher operational range. Also it should make modern ships an easier target (it would be a little more difficult to get out of their operational range in one turn). Should be not too much unbalancing since bombers have no lethal bombard turned on. Also lowers the need of relocating Bombers every time you conquer enemy border city.
Since Bombers now have operational range of 8, it would seam strange to leave Tactical Nukes with shorter range of 6. That's why I now increased bombard range of Tactical Nukes to 8 tiles.
Civilopedia says that Cruise Missiles can fly for thousand miles, so let it be reflected in the rules. They get bombard range of 4.
Helicopters can now transport 2 foot units. This makes Helicopter a more useful transport unit.
Ship tweaks:
Frigate gets attack AND bombard rating of 3, while Man-O-War gets attack AND bombard rating of 4. My reasoning was, that historicly, main difference between Ironclads and sailing ships was in ARMOR, and NOT in weapons. These changes reflect that. Ironclad has not much better offense, but has pretty good defense. With new stats Man-O-War becomes pretty interesting vessel. Has attack power of Ironclad (cannon heavy ship), while on the other hand is pretty vulnerable against Ironclads (and even Frigates).
Privateers get defense of 2, increased movement of 4 and lower cost of 50 shields. This will make them more useful to players. On the other hand it's not overpowering considering that Frigate has now both higher attack rating and very useful bombard ability.
Prerequisite tech for Ironclad unit is now Industrialization (instead of Steam Power). Also, Ironclads get cost of 90. This is done in order to prolong use of Frigates as "queen of seas". In original rules, Frigates were quickly made obsolete by Ironclads.
Late game naval units have increased movement by 1. This is done in order to make greater difference between speed of modern naval vessels and sailing ships. It should not be unbalancing since change is for just one movement point.
So Destroyers, Battleships, AEGIS Cruisers, Transports and Carriers get movement of 6. Subs get movement of 4, while Nuclear Subs get movement of 5. Note that now, since Carriers and Battleships are same-class ships, they get same movement rate of 6.
Submarines (nuclear version also) get attack of 10, to make them dangerous enough and force players to make their own submarines to detect enemy ones.
Also, Nuc. Submarines get reduced cost of 120 shields (was 140). Nuc. Submarines are better in every way, but not that much better to keep old price of 140 shields.
Battleship bombard capabilities are barely better compared to Destroyer (8 vs 6). So in order to fix that, Battleship gets bombard strength of 12. AEGIS Cruiser also gets higher bombard strength of 8.
Battleship gets higher cost of 220 shields. This is mostly done in order to make Destroyers more useful.
In order to make AEGIS Cruiser better at defense against bombers (that's the point of AEGIS), I increased their defense rating to 12. It's same defense as of Battleship, but since they are cheaper they become best in escort missions. Makes them more them more useful then simple submarine detectors. Destroyers still stay as main grunt force (cheap).
Basic unit stats:
Longbowmen gets reduced cost of 30 to make them more attractive compared to Knights. 40 cost was too much anyway (Immortals cost 30 and have attack of 4).
Gunpowder infantry units look too much weak on attack and too expensive for defense compared to cavalry or pre-gunpowder units.
Musketmen get 2/4/1 stats, cost 50 (lower cost)
Musketeer gets 4/4/1 stats, cost 50 (useful, finally)
Riflemen get 5/6/1 stats, cost 70 (higher attack and lower cost)
Guerilla gets 7/6/1 stats, cost 80 (higher attack and lower cost)
Infantry gets 8/10/1 stats, cost 90 (higher attack)
Reduced cost and higher attack makes these units more valuable.
Knight to Cavalry upgrade looks pretty cheap considering it's benefits (+50% to offense and movement for just 10-20gp). And its devastating if done early in rennaissance age. To make this a little bit more balanced I increased cost of Cavalry to 90 shields. Despite higher cost of Cavalry, Cossaks will keep their cost of 80 shields, since their higher defense is not much impressive on its own. Siphai will keep their cost of 100 shields too, since their cost is already high enough considering their benefits.
Marines and Paratroopers get some changes too:
Marines get 10/8/1 stats.
Paratroopers get 8/10/1 stats.
This makes these units more valuable and gives every of them special tactic. Paratrooper will invade and hold position, while Marines will assault. These units can be especially good in Jungles and Mountains, which wheeled units can't pass. And since in modern times Infantry gets obsolete these unit take role of jungle & mountain warriors. Someone could argue that Attack of 10 makes Marines capable of killing Tanks, but since smart players will stack tanks with Infantry support, that should not be problem.
Paratroopers also get operational range of 8. Real problem with these units was that it was difficult to land your units behind enemy lines, since they need to start from your cities. Hopefully this change will make them more strategicly useful.
Modern Armor gets defense of 14 to make Mech. Inf. more important.
Radar Artillery is mobile unit, so it gets movement of 2. Since Radar Artillery has movement of 2, it now needs Oil and Rubber (plus Aluminium).
Unique units changes:
When comparing Keshik and Ansar Warrior, Keshik's benefits looks much weaker. To fix that I added blitz ability to Keshik (can attack multiple times in single turn). It goes well with flavor of "mounted archers" (attack, withdraw, attack). Also, Keshik is probably a unit that benefits the least from blitz (it's difficult to blitz Pikemen and due to low Keshik defense they are easy to be counterattacked). I added to them the ability to ignore movement penalties on Hills too, because it looks more realistic (how could they travel fast on Mountains if they can't on Hills).
Also, Elephants gain ability to ignore movement penalties in Jungles. It's mostly done to make them better unique unit (since usually you have strategic resources in abundance), and to reflect their endurance and familiarity with climate in these regions.
Bezerk gets attack lowered to 5, but decreased cost of 50 shields. Why? Since I just can't comprehend axe-wielding unit with same offensive power as gun-armed Cavalry. Still, even with these changes they will be a very competitive unique unit.
Conquistadors get reduced cost of 50 shields. Although they need to be balanced to Knights (having them with attack of 4 would probably make Knights obsolete), they are still unique unit, which needs Navigation as prerequisite, so they need to be a little bit more powerful.
Non-unit related changes:
In standard game Wealth is heavily underrated. So I doubled Wealth income (4 prod. to 1 gold before Economy, 2 to 1 after).
Taxmen and Scientist values increased to 2 points. Before, I hardly ever used them, since getting two shields is better then one taxmen (difference between getting 2 shields by mining and getting extra pop by irrigating). It's still not much, but higher values could be unbalancing in early game (and give graphic glitches).
Worker's "working speed bonus" in Communism is increased to +50%.
This is done because of flavor (Communism is "worker ideology") and to make Communism more distinctive from Monarchy. Also it gives Communism one unique bonus in peacetime.
Spy experience was changed to Veteran for all non-communist governments and to Elite for Communist government. That way, I've increased success chances for spying missions, which are by default low. Note that Diplomat experience is still Regular, so you'll have good reason to use Spy instead of Diplomat for Steal Tech mission.
Steal World Map mission is added to Diplomats. World Map is most useful in ancient era anyway.
Cost of Propaganda spying missions is HALVED. Propaganda becomes more viable option, but it still fails often against culturally superior civilizations (as it should). Democracy immunity becomes more important.
Attack bonus against barbarians is lowered too.
Why?
Since I don't think, that even novice player thinks it's fun to have his one lone warrior defeat 15 enemy horsemen. And that's something that can happen with anti-barbarian bonus of 800% at easiest difficulty.
Now, at Chieftain difficulty, bonus against barbarians is 200% (still good), at Warlord is 100%, at Regent and Monarch is 50%, and at Emperor and Deity difficulty there is no bonus at all.
Also, I made a small change in difficulty settings for effective number of optimal cities (used when calculating corruption). I raised number of optimal cities at lower difficulty levels, while keeping old numbers at higher levels. That way, I made game a little easier on corruption (but not too much) at lower difficulty levels.
So at Chieftain, optimal number is 150% of base number instead of 100%, at Warlord 120% instead of 95%, at Regent 100% instead of 90% and at Monarch level 90% instead of 85%. At Emperor and Deity levels optimal number is left unchanged (80% and 70% as before).
Wonder tweaks:
Military Academy small wonder doesn't need anymore a "victorious army" as prerequisite. This is done in order to make building of armies a better option. Since army cost is as high as of one Wonder building, making army by using leaders should still be useful.
Cure for Cancer's 1 happy face is useless in modern times when civs have 6+ luxuries. So upping Cure for Cancer effect to 3 HAPPY FACES will make it PREMIUM wonder, which it is supposed to be.
Since Longevity Wonder doesn't give proper benefits in modern age, I made it available with Sanitation (industrial age). Now it could give some good benefits, especially after Hospitals are built.
Space ship tweaks:
New costs for SS components are 250, 500 and 1000 shields (compared to old costs of 160, 320 and 640 shields). They will be aprox. 50% more expensive compared to original prices.
This is done, in order to prolong (and make more enjoyable) space race.
Life Support System needs Recycling.
Why? Just look civilopedia entry. It talks about recycling too much.
Docking Bay needs Robotic, since parts which needs to be transformed to Space Station (before landing to Alpha Centauri) needs ROBOTIC ARMS, also that could help when loading things from space station in earth orbit (all this is in civilopedia).
Statis Chamber should need Genetic.
Why? To discover cyrogenic, human race needs advanced biology understanding, including genetic.
With these changes only pure military techs are not needed for space ship, like Stealth, Integrated Defense or Smart Weapons.
This will make end game more interesting. Players will have time to use some more advanced techs before finishing space ship.
Version 1.01 was downloaded 35 times.
Version 1.1 was downloaded 6 times.
Version 1.11 was downloaded 11 times.
Version 1.12 was downloaded 133 times.
Version 1.13 was downloaded 484 times.
Version 1.14 was downloaded 17 times.
Version 1.2 was downloaded 74 times.
Version 1.22 was downloaded 200 times.
Version 1.23 was downloaded 304 times.
 Attachment: patch_suggestion_ptw.zip
This has been downloaded 523 time(s).
Last edited by player1 on 07-08-2003 at 16:22
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player1
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Belgrade, YU
Sep 2001
time: 06:23
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dp
Last edited by player1 on 03-03-2003 at 03:01
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player1
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Belgrade, YU
Sep 2001
time: 06:23
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Version 1.01 is OUT!
quote:
Comments to changes in v1.01
Explorers defense changed back to 0. This is done mainly because I think that previous change was unnecessary. Since, for their cost of just 20 shields, they do scout and pillage missions 6 tiles deep in enemy territory. Making them have defense of 1 (and thus ability to retreat) would just make them too much powerful. This change is also done in non-PtW version of this MOD.
Conquistadors get reduced cost of 60 shields. Although they need to be balanced to Knights (having them with attack of 4 would probably make Knights obsolete), they are still unique unit, which needs Navigation as prerequisite, so they need to be a little bit more powerful. |
Last edited by player1 on 14-11-2002 at 17:41
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Bolt
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Guerillas should have movement 2 and treat everything as grassland (movment 1 on everything but roads).
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Ismailov
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I have played your two mods (ptw version and original version) and I liked them so much! Very good work 
I know your point of view with this mod is to be conservative (do not change things too much). I agree with you, as most times very radical mods are only interesting for those who developed them (they are the only ones who understand them). However, I'd like to propose some ideas.
1.- Powerful civilizations were always civilizations who had control over the trade environment, and most of times this environment was the water. Great rivers (Babylonian, Egypt) -> small seas (Greek) -> medium seas (Rome) -> oceans (Spanish, Portuguese, English, etc.). Only when railroad was developed, cargo trade by land was cheaper than cargo trade by sea. So, in ancient times, when two cities had to be connected, it was ALWAYS cheaper to build a harbour in each of them than building a road. However, in civ3 large empires are continental empires, with long trade roads! Should galleys and harbors be cheaper and appear before?
2.- In civ3, there is one only difference among goverments: you have "peace" goverments and "war" goverments. However, in CTP you had also "money" goverments (teocracy), "production" goverments (communism)... Besides, I think history is more funny if you have to change your goverments often... I know you changed communism working rate, but: Is there any (small) change to turn goverments more distinct and funny? Should anarchy be less restrictive?
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player1
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Belgrade, YU
Sep 2001
time: 06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ismailov
1.- Powerful civilizations were always civilizations who had control over the trade environment, and most of times this environment was the water. Great rivers (Babylonian, Egypt) -> small seas (Greek) -> medium seas (Rome) -> oceans (Spanish, Portuguese, English, etc.). Only when railroad was developed, cargo trade by land was cheaper than cargo trade by sea. So, in ancient times, when two cities had to be connected, it was ALWAYS cheaper to build a harbour in each of them than building a road. However, in civ3 large empires are continental empires, with long trade roads! Should galleys and harbors be cheaper and appear before? |
Harbors are already cheaper if you sue Militaristic civs.
Now if Glleys would be more cheaper and make available earlier(and personnly I think that they are cheap enough) would make some probelms.
First, other ships should be chepaer too, sicnce 20 shields for cheap galley would be better deal then Caravel (or maybe even Galley).
Second, it would make AI bad, since he would not realise how much galley are better. He would still try ro settle all the land before going to see, while human player would take all nice spots with quick galleys (3 move vs 1).
quote:
Originally posted by Ismailov 2.- In civ3, there is one only difference among goverments: you have "peace" goverments and "war" goverments. However, in CTP you had also "money" goverments (teocracy), "production" goverments (communism)... Besides, I think history is more funny if you have to change your goverments often... I know you changed communism working rate, but: Is there any (small) change to turn goverments more distinct and funny? Should anarchy be less restrictive? |
It's difficult question to answer. There are not so many government parameters in Civ3 as in CTP . For example, most new user-made government made in these forums are pretty similar one to another so it's pretty difficult to make something distinctive.
And anarchy should stay anarchy.
P.S.
As for communism, it was mostly a flavor change.
P.P.S.
By the way, Ismailov,
Have you tested your city garphic MOD with new PtW buildings added (Stock Ex. and Commercial docks).
Do they all fit nicely with background tiles?
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Ismailov
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I made my own rules mod. I have not posted it in apolyton because it is so radical, and I understand it is interesting only for me. But there are some (radical) tricks to create new interesting goverments:
- Republic: Units: 2 gold/turn -> Public works and war very expensive. In modern times, it's a kind of socialdemocracy -> Unique building: Welfare state.
- Democracy: It's now a kind of capitalist democracy. No extra trade bonus: taxes minimized to favor the
private companies. But it has no mantanaince costs: all is made by private companies. Units: 2 g/t. Unique building: Corporate Branch. No +50 working rate.
- Communism: +50 woking rate. When you get railroad, if you want to industrialize fast, you will have to spend some turns in communism. It will be cheaper than using Republic and Democracy. Unique building: koltjos.
And so on...
So, it is difficult task to choose the goverments.
Each new unique building has special effects, and replaces the others. Special wonders for each goverment.
I made some other things: slave resources, mills, television, etc.
(Yes, I have used my city view mod with ptw, and it works good! I think I should post a ptw screenshot in the thread of my mod...)
Last edited by Ismailov on 27-11-2002 at 18:08
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11-11-2002 17:07
(good movment and attack)
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