29-11-2002 17:57									#31
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Interpretators say that they could be Cyryl and Metody.

	01-12-2002 08:33									#32
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Mefody, Heresson, M e F o d y.
Nah, those two weren't angels. They were humans. So, version about two fallen angels is more likely.

	02-12-2002 19:17									#33
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Actually it's Methody, not Mefody. In Polish it is Metody.
You, Russians, tend to change th into f, while we into t;
Theodor - Polish Teodor, Russian Fiodor.
Theofil - Polish Teofil, Russian (he he he) Fiofil?
And I know who they were, dammit.
Better than You.

	04-12-2002 22:01									#34
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Conquest or not, a sigificant part of the population of Kiev and surroundings were viking settlers and their descendants. "Rus" comes from the Finno-Ugric word for Sweden, Ruotsi.

	05-12-2002 19:11									#35
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Ruthenians wouldn't be able to build a state themselves

	06-12-2002 08:08									#36
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Woah, I'm with this , a similar reaction happened with my *terrible* Crown of Aragon thread.

Ignore them Cian McGuire, a "civ" only can exists if:

1.- Is far from a powerful-today one (why they doesn't include the "small" and "powerless" SIAM??? or ANGKOR WATT??? Answer: Too near from India, and not an european one! Why they included Iroquois? No comments...),

2.- Is a western european one (sorry, your civ is in the "commies" *sorry* "russians").

3.- The players have an high amount of bills to spend in stores for the games (If Centroafrican Republic were a rich and powerful country, don't doubt for a centroafrican civ!!!)

4.- The history doesn't matters. Is a game! (true answer: No gold? No civ!)

5.- And, *at the end*, the civs for "full the map" must be in the anglosaxonian history as a big (??) enemy, note that: Indian, Iroquois & Zulu. Are perfect for full the map, but... What about with: Thai, Khmer, Incans, Mayans, Ghana, Ethiopians, or simply renaming Zulus for Shona??

THESE ARE THE TRUE REASONS, so... Just learn 3D Studio and Civ III mod creation

	06-12-2002 16:15									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf Conquest or not, a sigificant part of the population of Kiev and surroundings were viking settlers and their descendants. "Rus" comes from the Finno-Ugric word for Sweden, Ruotsi.

'sigificant'?


Why in that case Slavic language was official language of Kiev Rus, not the language of Vikings?

	06-12-2002 16:22									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Ruthenians wouldn't be able to build a state themselves

still troling? nice.
Look at map Heresson, this huge part of the World painted with red colour, the largest country on this planet is Ruthenian state. Then look a bit west oh and don't forget to use the looking glass to see this one... yeah... this small patch on the globe is the sad kingdom of traitors of slavic brotherhood. Compare.

And... we build our state, not Vikings or anybody else.

	06-12-2002 16:25									#39
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Ukraine would be cool.

They have (had?) a very distict culture.

Leader: MAZEPA
UU: Cossack (hey wait....?)

	07-12-2002 00:55									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Serb still troling? nice. Look at map Heresson, this huge part of the World painted with red colour, the largest country on this planet is Ruthenian state. Then look a bit west oh and don't forget to use the looking glass to see this one... yeah... this small patch on the globe is the sad kingdom of traitors of slavic brotherhood. Compare. And... we build our state, not Vikings or anybody else.

Your last sentence isn't true and makes your entire speech obsolete.
The Vikings built your state, so don't boast with it.

	07-12-2002 15:42									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Serb 'sigificant'? Why in that case Slavic language was official language of Kiev Rus, not the language of Vikings?

official language? well the vikings spoke "viking" for several generations before they merged with the slavs.

quote: And... we build our state, not Vikings or anybody else.

I agree. Russia consisted of several independent khaganates and states at that time, and only two of them were set up by Vikings (Novgorod and Kiev). The Great Russian state came at a later point.

	07-12-2002 15:56									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Your last sentence isn't true and makes your entire speech obsolete. The Vikings built your state, so don't boast with it.

Could you prove it? What is the definition of state in your opinion?

	07-12-2002 16:01									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf official language? well the vikings spoke "viking" for several generations before they merged with the slavs.

Could you prove it? I guess you'll make a big faivor for history as science if you make it, because afaik there were no state documents, treaties, etc. which were signed on Viking language in Kiev Rus.

quote: I agree. Russia consisted of several independent khaganates and states at that time, and only two of them were set up by Vikings (Novgorod and Kiev). The Great Russian state came at a later point.

Those two Novgorod and kiev weren't founded by Vikings (Varyags as we call them) too. Can you give me a single evidence that Novgorod or Kiev were founded by Vikings?
I guess no.

Btw, thanks for support

	07-12-2002 16:54									#44
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quote: Could you prove it? I guess you'll make a big faivor for history as science if you make it, because afaik there were no state documents, treaties, etc. were signed on Viking language in Kiev Rus.

bah. ok I don't know about official documents. but you should read the accounts of the arab writers Ibn Rustah and Ibn Fadlan who visited the Rus. it's quite clear that they kept their customs and language. This is also proven by several graves and runestones.

quote: Those two Novgorod and kiev weren't founded by Vikings (Varyags as we call them) too. Can you give me a single evidence that Novgorod or Kiev were founded by Vikings?

The Vikings didn't found Novgordod or Kiev per se, but they moved in, took control and made them great

	07-12-2002 19:49									#45
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A whole bunch of Russian and not only Russian historians thinks otherwise. This debate between followers of 'Normanism' and its foes continues for years. And none of the sides provided strong enough evidences to 100% or dis-prove this theory afaik.

	15-12-2002 17:08									#46
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There was a documentary on Swedish tv a few years ago where they went to Ukraine and actually found some rural village where some people could still speak Swedish!

	15-12-2002 20:03									#47
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I've read about that, Gammalsvenskby (=Oldswedishtown) But they aren't descendants of "Vikings", but of later immigrants I think?

	15-12-2002 21:07									#48
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Yes, you are right. I searched for it and found this page:
http://www.svenskakyrkan.se/norraky...gsvby/index.htm (in Swedish). Cool story anyway

	19-12-2002 09:12									#49
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I thought it's joke, but 'descendants of later immigrants' expalined much

	20-12-2002 04:06									#50
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yea they were deported from Dagö in Estonia to Ukraine by Catherine the Great, so immigrants are maybe not the right word to use

	24-12-2002 14:43									#51
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Blaim Germans then, she was the German princes as you know.

	24-12-2002 22:14									#52
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Moreover, she war borned in (today) Poland...

	24-12-2002 22:26									#53
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Evil Poland! First 'you' deport our people and now your farmers want my tax money!

	27-12-2002 05:12									#54
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I could see a case for Hungary or maybe Poland, but Ukrainians are slavs, too, so how about we just change "The Russians" to "The Slavs"?

	30-12-2002 13:12									#55
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Poles are Slavs too, but Poles and Russians are different as hell. They are greedy and annoying, we are generous and always drunk (Heresson )

	30-12-2002 13:13									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Moreover, she war borned in (today) Poland...

Indeed. War "borned" in Poland
Evil, evil Poles.

	30-12-2002 15:05									#57
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Oh, that's just a typing mistake. Or perhaps an outlet of my plans towards You...

	30-12-2002 20:57									#58
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Slavs... This sounds like call to all northern mediterraneans as "Romance". There's something bigger than a language between these countries? The idea of "great slavia" was used by russian imperialism in the XX century.

	31-12-2002 07:36									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Oh, that's just a typing mistake. Or perhaps an outlet of my plans towards You...

What's your doctor saying about this? Saw him recently? You have to



p.s. clean your mail box, it's full.

	31-12-2002 07:38									#60
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quote: Originally posted by XarXo Slavs... This sounds like call to all northern mediterraneans as "Romance". There's something bigger than a language between these countries?

Our religion.