10-01-2003 10:46									#211
	Re: Seige tactics Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Straybow Ahem: you may notice that I did pillage most of their irrigation and cover most of the land tiles aroung Tlatelolco and some around other cities.

Stray,

What I noticed was that food was not important to deny; just shields. And not a little at a time. Get the invasion force gathered and then, all in one turn, cover his shield tiles. Like a denial of service attack, you will have shut down his 'server.' I brought a boat over from that nearby hut village about 12 clicks SE of the Aztec 'sphere of influence' to cover the backside areas on the other coast.

The one unit left (from the shield of the city hall) will still require 6 to 8 vet crooks, IIRC. The vet cats will make it go faster. I also gave some thought as to the order of the cities to attack and the best squares to make the attack from so as to be best able to move on to the next target.

In cracking Tlat' and Tex' I think I mustered 43 units. Non-vets work fine in the denial of service role, but, they die uselessly if pressed to attack walls. And attacking in dribs and drabs was not very pretty either. I did some of that too, before I had the brainstorm to besiege them.

It may not have been filled with glory, but still and all considered, I think it was a pretty good tactic.

	10-01-2003 13:55									#212
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

No BM - no broadside from this Ironclad - a shild siege is a perfectly valid appoach and works almost every time - I recall one occasion when some Mongols turned royalist on me - I just don't have the siege mentality.

Remember - I am British - the blood of the generals that much preferred to send in the troops (preferably Irish, Welsh, Scottish, or ANZAC of course -- always assuming there were no native levies available) and watch them be butchered, flows in my veins -- - yes this is a 'joke'

The only real problem in this game is the awful logistics -- we have ample materiel to finish the job - by either siege or direct assault, they just aren't where they need to be - but they will arrive

SG[1]

	10-01-2003 20:30									#213
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Remember - I am British - the blood of the generals that much preferred to send in the troops (preferably Irish, Welsh, Scottish, or ANZAC of course -- always assuming there were no native levies available) and watch them be butchered, flows in my veins -- - yes this is a 'joke' SG[1]

Funny, when the head-on approach was initially advocated, my first thought was of Montgomery at Alamein.

	11-01-2003 15:56									#214
	Increase Your PM Length

More like Patton. Saddled with hardware that was as plentiful as it was second rate, he accepted 4:1 losses if that's what it took to meet the objective.

	11-01-2003 21:12									#215
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

After a few forays against the walls I too thought of a famous general.

One General George A. Custer, he of the long flowing golden mane.

Called Yellow Hair by the Souix (not as picturesque as Old Blood and Guts)

In his case, the losses were more like 1:4...and he was never heard from again.

4:1 can be forgiven... by circumstance... by winning.

Losing all your men senselessly is another story.

"The objective is not to die for your country, but to make the other dumb bastard die for his."--George C Scott as Patton.

	12-01-2003 06:54									#216
	Increase Your PM Length

The real Patton (Old Blood and Guts in the UK) movie quote is a little different… anyway, are you trying to say that in Custer's final engagement his unit killed 4 Souix for each man? I thought the Souix showered them with arrows from cover and suffered comparatively light losses.

	12-01-2003 11:27									#217
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Stray,

Excellent site!! Thanks for the link. My memory of the quotation was actually better than I could hope.

There is another quote (that I won't get exactly) to the effect that "if I knew I was going to live so long, I would have taken better care of myself."

No, I was not saying "that", with 1:4. Maybe it was kinda lame, certainly confusing. And I took the 'ratio' to be a literary device, as I don't claim to know the actual numbers. In any case, my lack of clarity also warrants your construction.

Patton accepted losses of "4:1" in winning.

Custer inflicted the ultimate loss ratio on his own men; it simply doesn't matter how many Souix he killed.

It just seems to me that because Custer managed to get everyone killed, you could say he only killed one Souix for every four men he squandered. It's the same ratio, yes; but, derisive. I tried to put the emphasis on what a pathetic, wasteful tactic Custer blundered into. ( Turns out he was facing around 7,000, better armed, battle hardened, highly motivated and better led opponents.)

And to me the parallel to the game is striking. Because Custer's tactic makes about as much sense as throwing twelfth century crooks at eighteenth century musketeers behind walls...IMHO.

	13-01-2003 06:06									#218
	Increase Your PM Length

Are these games much fun?

@ War4ever

	13-01-2003 14:40									#219
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Fairly obviously - we think so - but they are not to everyone's taste.

SG[1]


... and as his eyes close for the last time the dying eighteenth century musketeer sees his glorious city reduced to the stone age by the barbarous (but victorious) twelfth century Crooks...

	13-01-2003 14:59									#220
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits SG[1] ... and as his eyes close for the last time the dying eighteenth century musketeer sees his glorious city reduced to the stone age by the barbarous (but victorious) twelfth century Crooks...

Completely agree...the singular musketeer could not stand alone against the hoard of glorious Crooks....

But there seems to be no need to destroy "his", now our, glorious city, is there??

	13-01-2003 18:03									#221
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Are these games much fun? @ War4ever

These games are a blast, obiwan. Read through some of the past games to get a sense of it. Group mission, agreed-upon rules. Many players means a lot of different styles and levels of ability are involved.

And even when reading all the posts between your turns, it's pretty amazing sometimes to see how the game has morphed between your previous turn and your next.

I've played in 3 or 4 now, and have learned a LOT in the process.

	14-01-2003 01:33									#222
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yay!!!!!

We now have our very own CivGroup!!!

Thanks, MarkG

SG[1]

	14-01-2003 02:02									#223
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Yay!!!!! We now have our very own CivGroup!!! Thanks, MarkG SG[1]

Very excited, I see; but, what's the dealeo??

Maybe MarkG hasn't yet set it up yet, or, more likely, I just don't know where to look. Is it listed under CivII in the forum list??

Monk

	14-01-2003 03:20									#224
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A CivGroup is a list of people who play the same game, for facilitating lists of players and the like. You can find them by clicking on the CS Forums root directory.

I see Hydey has joined the list... how's the game coming along?

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man Special Rules: No Caravans, Freight, or Spies allowed. Diplomats are allowed exclusively for the purpose of establishing embassies. Tech trading and other forms of diplomacy are permitted. Victory condition can be either conquest, or AC. Play List: 1. STYOM 2. DaveV 3. SG(2) 4. Jrabbit 5. SG[1] 6. Straybow 7. Hydey 8. La Fayette

	14-01-2003 03:32									#225
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Very excited, I see; but, what's the dealeo?? Maybe MarkG hasn't yet set it up yet, or, more likely, I just don't know where to look. Is it listed under CivII in the forum list?? Monk

It's listed under Multiplayer.

But I don't know if there's a "lurker" class...
(Seriously, you should enter and sign in.)

	14-01-2003 08:05									#226
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit It's listed under Multiplayer.

Done. And many thanks for the pointer, -Jrabbit.

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit But I don't know if there's a "lurker" class... (Seriously, you should enter and sign in.)

no "stalker" class either

Eager to learn; didn't have MPGE until recently; you guys play really hard games....pick one or mix and match. There seems to always be a reason to NOT undertake something new, I've noticed.

Monk

	14-01-2003 09:04									#227
	Got spare money?

Well, sign me up then, JRabbit. Sounds like a real hoot.

	14-01-2003 09:46									#228
	Unfair, unfair! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hey, why can't we have a fancy-schmancy emblem instead of the boring purple rectangle? I stole this from one of the Micro$haft Windows std icon sets, on the purple bg, but I can't make a gif of it…

Attachment: swords.png
This has been downloaded 54 time(s).

	14-01-2003 18:27									#229
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If we want something custom, we'll have to design (to the specs of the others).

Persoanlly, I'm OK with the plain text, since it *kinda* says what we are. Cool designs are nice, but I think they should also communicate, and I don't know if the billboard space available (18x20?? pixels or some such) allows that.

Welcome to the group, obiwan and Bloody Monk!!

	15-01-2003 06:27									#230
	Inflate your Upload Space

The rollover text gives the full name of the group. The crossed swords I stole attached above is the proper size (15x19).

	17-01-2003 10:34									#231
	we win Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

1730 Hydey takes over with only the dishes to wash.
Aztecs develop metalergy
Moving millions of troops around
moving units attempting seige of Texcoco

1740 ok more of the same, seige of Texcoco in place, they should just have 1 defender for the attack next turn

1750 Aztecs contact us and beg for peace, I fart in their general direction. Attack Texcoco and lose 2 catupults and 2 crusaders defeating the lone musketeer defender.
Capture Texcoco 113 gold & metallurgy
Leo's upgrades all catupult to cannon
Begin moving seige troops towards Tlateloco.

1752 Production orders in 100's of cities changed from catapult to cannon
Tlateloco seige in place for attack next turn.

1754 Attack Tlateloco losing 2 cannon in taking out remaining musketeer
Aztecs beg for peace , offer up all their virgins but we will take thm anyway
Move seige into place around tenochititlan.

1756 Attack Tenochtitlan losing 1 crusader defeating the phalanx (man with pointed stick) defender
Capture great library & 23 gold
Move seige troops into place around teotihuacan.

1758 Final attack lose 2 cannon in defeating the last aztec musketeer.
Hydey has his fill of aztec Virgins

Attachment: ap_a1758.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	17-01-2003 10:35									#232
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

here is the save prior to the last attack.

Attachment: ap_a1756.sav
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

	17-01-2003 10:37									#233
	Tired of ads?

that was alot of fun
what next STYOM ?

	17-01-2003 13:10									#234
	Increase Your PM Length

Trust Hydey to take all the bloody virgins after we did all the bloody work

Well done all - good game!

SG[1]

	17-01-2003 13:24									#235
	Increase Your PM Length

Hydey,

The 1756 save is a sight to see. Very impressive and enough to scare the cr** out of those Aztec virgins. Hope you had them cleaned up first.

Great game

Monk

	18-01-2003 02:15									#236
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Nice work Hydey!

And good game everyone ... I have some ideas for the next one, probably to be launched on the weekend...

(Of course, that's assuming I don't have any turns to play in the other 2 current games! )

	19-01-2003 23:55									#237
	Suffering from ads?

Hydey uber alles!

Much fun, STOYM. Thanks for including me.