23-11-2002 01:19									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Eli I couldnt move, but everything(city growth, production, income) advanced by one turn.

Which year was it when you saved the file?

	23-11-2002 01:25									#32
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4000BCE of course.

	23-11-2002 02:10									#33
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If it gets to me again and its still 4000BC (3rd times the charm) I'll post yet another bug in the appropriate thread (with a fair bit of vitriol) and I propose that we should start afresh. Hopefully jshelr will be able to get to it to me tonight.

	23-11-2002 03:12									#34
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH If it gets to me again and its still 4000BC [..] I propose that we should start afresh.

I agree.

	23-11-2002 03:34									#35
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That was a quick agreement delmar. Did you have a crummy start site?

	23-11-2002 04:26									#36
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH That was a quick agreement delmar. Did you have a crummy start site?

Yes. One where time stands still.

	23-11-2002 06:12									#38
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yea, we're screwed.

Let's start over, since I have the worst starting position every seen by human beings!!

Unfortunately, I have to confess that this happened to me in another game, but seemed to work itself out although I missed a turn. Maybe it has something to do with not passing the file around in the right order at the start.

	23-11-2002 07:27									#39
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quote: Originally posted by jshelr Let's start over, since I have the worst starting position every seen by human beings!!

Next to a horde of Eliot Spitzers? (Sorry)

quote: Unfortunately, I have to confess that this happened to me in another game [..] Maybe it has something to do with not passing the file around in the right order at the start.

Are you implying that you are causing this? Just curious... Can you elaborate on this starting order thing? I thought we did pass the file around in the right order.

	23-11-2002 12:57									#40
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jshelr, first pass the save to Spencer. We'll see if it changes when the new turn starts.

(I have a good starting position )

	23-11-2002 17:51									#41
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I appear to have the sav passed from eli to Jshelr (so it thinks I'm Jshelr/Rome). But it may be something else.

I'm kinda in a quandry here. I said I'd start a new game if it looked like there was an error in the game. Since I cant tell yet, I'm not sure what to do. The problem is that I have to head into work for a couple of hours so I wont be able to start a game immediately (and pass it on) or play any turns (but I will be online ). An alternative is to send around the last turn or 1st turn again. Any thoughts (in the next ten minutes).

	23-11-2002 18:08									#42
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OK it worked so I'm sending it on to delmar. I've also started a new version where we have the same civs (but different starting positions) if you all want to we can start that instead.

onto work

	23-11-2002 21:08									#43
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I'm kinda in a quandry here. I said I'd start a new game if it looked like there was an error in the game. Since I cant tell yet, I'm not sure what to do.

I played my turn and it worked. I also have a decent starting position. However, I wouldn't want to force jshelr to play with a starting position that he says is the worst ever. I know you specifically asked for no whining and I promised you that, so all I'll say is I don't mind if you restart for jshelr's sake.

Nonetheless, next turn attached for Eli.

Edit: attachment deleted.

	23-11-2002 21:19									#44
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I dont consider that stating that your starting position sucks is whining. Using it to explain why you failed to protect yourself from Panzers (or riders) might be considered so.

OK Eli what do you think? Jshelr did you want a restart?

I'd rather play a game where we each started with a reasinable chance to win. I'll send the new start to delmar in the interim.

	23-11-2002 21:33									#45
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My start location in two other PBEM games sucks... This is the nature of civ.

What if when we restart someone else gets a bad start? To keep fairness we will have to restart again, and again, and again. The chances that everyone get a good or average start are low.

So as long as the game works, I dont think we should restart.

	23-11-2002 21:40									#46
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3950BCE savegame sent.

	23-11-2002 21:57									#47
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I'd rather play a game where we each started with a reasinable chance to win. I'll send the new start to delmar in the interim.

Turn in new game for Eli attached. Eli, at least take a look. Maybe your position is now better than in the previous game.

Edit: attachment deleted.

	23-11-2002 22:02									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Eli What if when we restart someone else gets a bad start?

In another game, everyone can ask for a restart once, at 4000BC.

I was also thinking about sending around 3 or more games at the very beginning, and then we could vote which one we want to play.

I am not so sure about that low chance for everyone having a decent starting position. I tried to generate a few maps in the editor and most of the time most of the players have a good start.

In our case, even if one or two starting positions are inferior, there is a chance that those will be assigned to the AI.

	23-11-2002 22:20									#49
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quote: Originally posted by delmar Turn in new game for Eli attached. Eli, at least take a look. Maybe your position is now better than in the previous game.

No no no no. Desert .

	23-11-2002 22:26									#50
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I took the liberty to check jshelr's starting spot in the first game, and it really is extraordinarily bad. So i'm in favor of restarting, but to a new game, not the second one.

	23-11-2002 22:34									#51
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But Eli thats like home

I think we're all online since Jshelr just sent me the last turn (or maybe it just got to me? ). But he hasnt checked in here and we need to tell him that if he wants to, we'll start again.

	23-11-2002 22:39									#52
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Boys, here is an idea, feel free to tell me if it's too complicated:

Generate X (3<=X<=5) games, send it around, everyone rates all X games on a scale from 1 to 10, and we play the game where the deviation of the ratings is the smallest. This way we minimize the chance that someone has an extraordinarily good or bad starting position compared to the others. The part in italic is important because I personally wouldn't mind to start on a 2 tile tundra island, if everyone starts on one.

	23-11-2002 22:40									#53
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH But Eli thats like home

	23-11-2002 22:42									#54
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Obviously you're into math.

	23-11-2002 22:43									#55
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I can tell you that game 2 was gonna be tough it was 80% water and arid with raging hordes.

	23-11-2002 22:45									#56
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I used to be. Now I just use Excel.

	23-11-2002 22:48									#57
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I like delmar's idea.

	23-11-2002 22:50									#58
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OK I'm generating 4 games all random and Ill send em on asap

	23-11-2002 22:56									#59
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I can tell you that game 2 was gonna be tough it was 80% water and arid with raging hordes.

Interesting. I would have rated my starting position as 8 or 9...

	23-11-2002 23:05									#60
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OK 4 games,

Game 1 - 8
Game 2 - 0
Game 3 - 7
Game 4 - 7

I'll leave the calculations to the originator of this idea