04-12-2002 01:21									#91
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Thinking about it some more, how about if we save the final decision between barracks and temple (or conceivably even a granary if we get a hold of Pottery) until we see what our exploring warriors find? After all, our options are rather different depending on whether we're alone on a land mass, have the Legos as neighbors, or have GoW as neighbors (to give some extreme examples).

	04-12-2002 01:22									#92
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A question about the 100% science thing: how many free units can we support? The worker is 1, and we are planning on building 3 warriors. That's 4 units. Then we are planning on building a building which will cost 1gpt. Then we will build a settler, which will be unit #5. Not until that settler becomes our second city will our free unit support increase.

100% science will leave us with our starting 10gold only. At the very least we will have to drop from 100% science shortly after completion of the building (whether temple or barracks).

-Arrian

	04-12-2002 01:34									#93
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3 Warriors is excessive, IMO. We appear to be compensating for our non-Expansionist civ. I suggest just building 2 Warriors, which will probably allow an earlier Settler to be built. Deficit spending is no problem, as our second city will be founded in short order (only 3 tiles away).


Dominae

	04-12-2002 01:39									#94
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Well, in scenario #1 (temple), food limits our ability to build a settler faster. We could shave 1 turn.

With the second scenario, however, cutting out the 3rd warrior would compensate for the 10 shield difference between a barracks and a temple. Hmm...

But I do like the idea of 3 warriors - we have a high probability of popping barbs from a hut. 3 warriors allows 2 explorers, with 1 that may do limited exploring but hangs around the capitol to deal with the barbs - who as we know no longer just rush the first unit they see.

-Arrian

	04-12-2002 01:41									#95
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I'd rather we have 3 warriors too.

2 for exploring and 1 to stay near the capital and protect the city and worker from rogue Barbs.

	04-12-2002 01:48									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian T13: 19f, 6s. Move citizen to unchopped fur, hope auto-allocation sets new citizen to irrigated fur (will check on this).

Nice! (It will definitely work)

quote: T31: Size 2. 3f, 17s. Switch new citizen to 2nd fp.

Should be 0f, 17s, which affects the rest of the turns.

I tend to agree with nbarclay that there is no need to look forward so many turns. But I also think that we should build a barracks before our third (veteran) Warrior. (See my original post on page 2).

	04-12-2002 01:53									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian But I do like the idea of 3 warriors - we have a high probability of popping barbs from a hut. 3 warriors allows 2 explorers, with 1 that may do limited exploring but hangs around the capitol to deal with the barbs - who as we know no longer just rush the first unit they see.

Not just barbs, either. What happens if a rival warrior starts poking his nose around?

	04-12-2002 01:57									#98
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quote: Originally posted by alexman I tend to agree with nbarclay that there is no need to look forward so many turns. But I also think that we should build a barracks before our third (veteran) Warrior. (See my original post on page 2).

Actually, I like that people are projecting that far into the future. I just think we should project in terms of possible courses of action depending on the situation rather than viewing a particular decision as final.

	04-12-2002 02:02									#99
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I'm certainly not under the impression that any of this is final. I'm just looking at various possibilities while waiting for things to actually happen.

alexman, thanks for that correction. I'll fix it.

-Arrian

	04-12-2002 02:49									#100
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Alternate version of the barracks option:

[T2-T6 same as Arrian]
T7: 7f, warrior complete (chopping done), build barracks, begin irr
T8: 9f, 1s. Switch citizen to fur tile.
T9: 11f, 4s. Irrigation done, move to next fur
T10: 13f, 7s. Begin chop
T11: 15f, 10s.
T12: 17f, 13s.
T13: 19f, 16s. Move citizen to unchopped fur, hope auto-allocation sets new citizen to irrigated fur (will check on this).
T14: Size 2. 0f, 21s.
T15: 1f, 36s (chop done), begin irrigation
T16: 2f, barracks done, build Warrior
T17: 4f, 5s, irrigation done, move to floodplain across river (west)
T18: 6f, Warrior complete, choose settler. begin irrigation
T19: 8f, 5s
T20: 10f, 10s irrigation complete, begin road
T21: 12f, 15s switch citizen to irrigated floodplains
T22: 15f, 18s road complete, move to floodplains along river
T23: 18f, 21s. Irrigate
T24: Pop 3: 0f, 26s. Work both furs and floodplains
T25: 3f, 0s: Settler built.

Tradeoff is a veteran Warrior (for swordsman upgrade?), versus a regular Warrior 7 turns earlier plus 2 gold for barracks upkeep.

Also, independently of the barracks/Warrior order, we get a settler one turn sooner if we use less floodplains and more furs/plains.

	04-12-2002 03:23									#101
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quote: Also, independently of the barracks/Warrior order, we get a settler one turn sooner if we use less floodplains and more furs/plains.

True. My queue had the settler done a turn later, with more food accumulated so I could bounce the city back to size 3 for back-to-back settlers, while also including another forest chop. That's down the road quite a bit, of course.

-Arrian

	04-12-2002 04:54									#102
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EDIT: I'm a ****ing moron.

I forgot to switch the citizen to the grassland tile just before finishing the first warrior was done, which is why I was short 1 food. Disregard. alexman, as usual, has it right.

So the barracks plan (plans, actually, depending on whether we build 3 warriors first or 2), works.

-Arrian

Last edited by Arrian on 04-12-2002 at 05:10

	04-12-2002 04:58									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian For some reason, on turn 9, instead of having 11 food, 4 shields, we had 10 food, 4 shields.

I tested it too and get 11 food!
No clue what's going on...

	04-12-2002 05:02									#104
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***boggle***

Ok, maybe I screwed up. Will check again. Wtf!?

Edit: yep, I screwed up. I've edited my prior post. :sigh: you're just better at this stuff, alexman.

-Arrian

Last edited by Arrian on 04-12-2002 at 05:11

	04-12-2002 05:26									#105
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I've seen some MP starts in PTW with as little as 6 or 7 tiles capitol to capitol.

3 warriors please.

/Edit. 3 warriors soonest, please.

Last edited by notyoueither on 04-12-2002 at 05:45

	04-12-2002 08:58									#106
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Aye, aye, Poobah! We can have 3 warriors by turn 11.

By the way, I should have left some of my (now edited) post in, as it dealt with science. I got The Wheel on turn 20. I then chose BW, and got that on turn 33 (I built a second city on turn 28, and it got to use the first irrigated fur immediately). Granted, I only had 11 gold, but two techs in 33 turns isn't too shabby.

-Arrian