13-12-2002 08:00									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep If you do not sign the treaty then the Czar will be executed by the German Government for War Crimes. You started this war. The Russian Army thrown back by the loss of their capital has started a full retreat. Sevestapol, Kiev, Minsk, and Murmansk has fallen. The Russian Empire at their de facto capital of Moscow is surrounded as the German Army puts the sity to seige. In China the Russian amry forced to redeploy troops to Europe ha started to lose ground. In 60 days the German army has managed to get to the former Chinese- Russian border, liberate Korea, and start making inroads from Russia proper from their bases in Tibet. Meanwhile the German Army entrenches itself in Turkey awaiting thier response to a proposal sent to them.

OOC:
I dont think my armies would retreat so easly, they are entrenched in their postions. If you want to make advances they are going to be hard. I am sorry but I think this is too much. I dont mean to be mean, but Germany is not fighting on three fronts, africa, china ,and Europe.

	13-12-2002 08:13									#182
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The Greater German Reich is. We are the most industrilised and the most populous nation in the world. And also losing one capitals and having one leader held at ransom does tend to make you think doesn;t it. The same happened to Russia in ww1, when the Czar and the Revolutionary government was taken hostage by the Bolsheviks.

	13-12-2002 09:45									#183
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These army numbers are ridiculous. its the ******* 19th century! i have no problem with you having humongous armies if you can keep it generic, but 12 million?!! even 5 million is insane. Even the most populous country (which i acknowledge to be germany) and even if you are also the wealthiest, there is no way you can support 12 million soldiers for more than a month or two, and adding 1.5 million in three months is also out of the question. I can accept 1 or 2 or even 3 million tops, but the present stats are not possible. that's 1/3 + of your able bodied youth, when you add that to the non working part of your population that also has to be supported by the working class and the people that have to be removed from the normal economy to produce food, weapons, supplies, the wages that the armies are being payed with, etc, it just isn't feasible. Please, be realistic. All you countries with millions of soldiers can certainly retain your Imperial or very huge ratings, just when you use actual numbers tone them down. Then the rest of us don't have to unrealistically inflate our armed forces numbers. It would be greatly appreciated.

	13-12-2002 09:49									#184
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quote: Originally posted by foolish_icarus These army numbers are ridiculous. its the ******* 19th century! i have no problem with you having humongous armies if you can keep it generic, but 12 million?!! even 5 million is insane. Even the most populous country (which i acknowledge to be germany) and even if you are also the wealthiest, there is no way you can support 12 million soldiers for more than a month or two, and adding 1.5 million in three months is also out of the question. I can accept 1 or 2 or even 3 million tops, but the present stats are not possible. that's 1/3 + of your able bodied youth, when you add that to the non working part of your population that also has to be supported by the working class and the people that have to be removed from the normal economy to produce food, weapons, supplies, the wages that the armies are being payed with, etc, it just isn't feasible. Please, be realistic. All you countries with millions of soldiers can certainly retain your Imperial or very huge ratings, just when you use actual numbers tone them down. Then the rest of us don't have to unrealistically inflate our armed forces numbers. It would be greatly appreciated.

I agree. 12 millions is way too much. The United States during hight of WWII had 13,000,000 men in the army and had much large population than Germany of 1880's.
I think that having large army would be 6,000,000 men tops. It seems like sheep is trying to outnumber all of us. I am not posting untill we get this straignt out. Plz civman we need your help in this matter.

	13-12-2002 09:56									#185
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Internal Actions: The Army of the United States begins to Accept Southern Volunteers. Within a year the army of the US will be close to 4 million men with half currently not serving but able to be mobilized quickly. The portion of the army not serving has been kept of a full state of battle readiness. (Secret: a detachment of 40000 men have begun to fortify the Mississippi River and the Gulf Coast. Another 20000 have begun to fortify The Canadian Border.)

The reconstruction of the South has progressed rapidly. The Harbor at Charleston has become a major shipyard for the United States Navy. Currently our navy consists of ten battleships with 20 ships expected to be completed by June next year. After the Charleston Shipyards become active in June an extra 40 ships a year will be built.

To the WCI: The United States recognizes your aquisitition of Mexico and wishes you luck getting the area settled. We would ask of you to state in terms your intentions toward this government.

Last edited by DemonSlayer on 13-12-2002 at 18:58

	13-12-2002 10:26									#186
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OOC: I'm with the others. NES' aren't about making your civ the best. It's about making a good story. Gerrmany should fall into depression, revolution and its army should die of hunger all togerther with them stats.

I too refuse to participate until Sheep sorts his **** out.

	13-12-2002 16:22									#187
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demonslayer too, needs to tone down the numbers

	13-12-2002 18:59									#188
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occ: my numbers have been toned down

	13-12-2002 22:48									#189
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OOC: I agree that Sheep is being unreasonable. THis what I say happened:
German troops made some advances in China, but fighting has become stalemated. Against the Ottomans, northern Greece was captured. The Russian front is about the same as teh border. In Africa, A bit of WCI territory has been captured but the Ottomans have made some minor advances as well. A map of this will be posted later. I don't want to end up having to judge every battle, so everyone keep things reasonable. I am trying to compromise when I say what happened so unless you have a major objection don't complain.

IC:
Treaty proposal drawn up by the WCI at a peace conference in Detroit (map to be posted later):
China shall be split between Russia and the WCI.
All nations shall recognize the USA's takeover of teh CSA.
All nations shall recognize Britain's takeover of Ethiopia.
The Germany-WCI border in Africa shall be moved a bit to the east.
The Germany-Ottoman border in Africa shall be moved south a bit.
The Germany-Russia border shall be moved a bit to the east.
Germany shall gain all balkan territory except Greece and Thrace (see the last mpa posted for this border).
All nations shall rcognize Argentina's new colonial acquisitions.

Last edited by civman2000 on 14-12-2002 at 03:00

	14-12-2002 00:59									#190
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i agree to all conditions except:

"Germany shall gain all balkan territory except Greece and Thrace (see the last mpa posted for this border)."

the ottoman empire will not rest until all its holdings are returned and secured. our soldiers continue fighting...

	14-12-2002 02:54									#191
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map showing who controls what. Lines in the middle of someone's territory signify new territory that has been captured.

Attachment: fullmap.gif
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	14-12-2002 02:58									#192
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proposed treaty. note I made a change (treaty post will be edited). A bit of German Africa will be given to the Ottomans.

	14-12-2002 03:00									#193
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oops, forgot the attachment!

Attachment: fullmap.gif
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	14-12-2002 05:11									#194
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Argentinian advance into brazil continues, so far about one third of their territory has been captured. Argentian conquest of Australia is complete, whole continent is now under their control. Argentinian command is still awaiting word on what the postion of the Colombians is. They are also open to dicussion with Brazil if they wish to propose a solution that will end the conflict.

	14-12-2002 05:15									#195
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From Argentina to Canada and U.S.:

Want an alliance?

	14-12-2002 05:55									#196
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To Argentina. Allaince accepted. As a gift to our ally please accept the aid of a division of our army in your work in brazil. I believe that you will find their fighting skills to be of use in the jungles of brazil.

US sends a division of 5000 men to Argentina awaiting deployment in Brazil.

Us begins to build a small fleet of ships in the great lakes.

To Canada: I am offering for the last time to purchase peacefully our former lands in your country. I do not wish a war with your people but to reclaim our old lands I would go to great lengths.

To Russia: Could i perhaps interest you in a Non Aggresion pact.

	14-12-2002 06:36									#197
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To all: I will accept the WCI's proposal of peace. However I would like to remind you that The German Kaiser, is also Kaiser of the German Dominions of Tibet and Siam. Germany will not budge on this issue. I will also like to see China independent, its neutrality assured by all, and open to trade.

To USA: I commission you to use my Ataltic Western Sqaudron in the war against Brazil.

Meanwhile on the frontline the German army halts its advance waiting to see the outcome of the peace negotiations.

occ: Okay so I have only that amount of troops but then Russian and Ottomans would have less also. I also would like to remind you that I have called for total mobilisation, and the women would replace men in the factories freeing up everyone almost eligible for service. Germany is fighting for he survival here it will use every means possible.

	14-12-2002 07:57									#198
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To all the nations of the world: germany showed extreme brutality in utilizing mustard gas against african and ottoman soldiers. the ottoman empire proposes that every nation not at war with germany take part in a trade embargo to protest this illegal attack.

*ottoman soldiers keep up the fight in the balkans. in africa, primitive 'gas masks' are distributed, and ottoman/african forces forge on*

	14-12-2002 07:59									#199
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The German Amry seeing that peace intiiatves used for the good of the Turkish and German peoples failed has re-opened their offensives against that nation. Soon the balkans will be ours. While in Africa the German line has managed to hold, using the mustard gas, to which the primitve marks has little resistance.

TO THE OTTOMANS: The offer is still there but you wear our patience thin.

	14-12-2002 08:04									#200
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TO WCI and Russia: Although the Turks do not want peace it does not stop us from having it. After POeace reigns I will still follow the peace proposal set out by the WCI with Turkey except for the Balkans go to Germany and Germany does not lose any of Africa. This is due to the continued aggression of Turkey.

	14-12-2002 08:21									#201
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Out of/In Character: you act like you can push the borders forward at will. you cant!

*crazed laugh* haha, we shall fight and fight until the last soldier is dead, until the last coin is spent, until the last ally accepts a peace deal...

until we reclaim all our land

	14-12-2002 08:23									#202
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The german artillery has destryed the city of Athens as the German army re-takes the Gerecian peninsula. Meanwhile in Africa cracks ion the Germans defense continue and the front has been pshed back 100 miles.

	14-12-2002 12:40									#203
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To Germany:
We will accept the terms of peace that WCI has presented. We sugest that maybe we could make Balkans an indepented nation.

To Ottoman Empire:
We wish to end this war before more lifes are lost. Already millions of Russians have died in the fighing. We think we have reach the Germans finally. We propose that with the Balkans that we set up an indepent nation. Plz accept this offer as we think it will end war.

OOC:
Well not sure how big my army should be, but all i know it is large. I will have to look some stuff up to figure out realistic numbers for Russia. Just glad we can straighten this out.

	14-12-2002 14:13									#204
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OOC: How do you attach a map to a message?

	14-12-2002 18:28									#205
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To all except Ottomans: SO then the peace treaty is approved of by everyone but those crazy turks. I suppose then all terms of it except those involving Turkey are now in place. (SECRET) What would you think of all of us dividing up Turkey so there's no risk of this turning into another world war.

To Ottomans (SECRET) We recommend you move most of your forces out of Africa into Europe, just leave the bare minimum to defend your land.

TO ARgentina, US, Canada: WE would like to join this alliance.

Columbian/Brazilian actions (they've gotta do SOMETHING):
Columbia, unaware of ARgentina's newly acquired allies, ahs joined the war thinking they can easily help Brazil win and it will be a repeat of teh First Argentine War. Indeed, they have captured a bit of Argentine territory and with BRazil cut off the Argetntine force in Brazil.

The WCI has invaded Columbia. A force was also sent to take the isthmus of panama to block teh Columbians' retreat.

Meanwhile, at a somewhat lower scale after brutal punishment earlier, protests continue against the WCI government.

Attachment: fullmap.gif
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	14-12-2002 22:18									#206
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The Ottoman high command, alarmed by the maddened rantings of the Emperor, overthrows him, and sets up a council of the most brilliant minds of the empire to run its affairs.

To the world: the ottoman union (note: no longer called an empire) is a new nation.

To germany: we accept a peace treaty making the balkans an independent buffer state.

	15-12-2002 00:26									#207
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To the WCI: (secret) Would you put pressure on Canada to return our former lands to us? I would be able to put a good word in for Argentina with you if you did.

To Argentina: (Secret) I would suggest we be wary of the WCI. They are by far the largest nation on our two continents.

	15-12-2002 07:30									#208
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From Argentina to U.S.:

Thankyou for your aid. by cooperating like this we can make the world a safer place for freedom by liberating the people opressed by the brutal brazilian and Colombian regimes. Trade will also help to make both our nations stronger. SECRET: we agree about WCI, however, if we can get Canada to join as well they will have no choice but to be peaceful and cooperative.

To WCI:

Argentina would be pleased to have peaceful relations and mutally provided security for our two continents. However, we cannot commit to anything relating to foreign colonies. We are also somewhat concerned about the protests of some of your people. However, we have faith that you will be able to solve any problems so that your people are happy and free and your government can operate justly and effectivelly and we can bring a golden era to the Americas.

Argentinian actions:

Support to army/navy ensures that they maintain very large ratings unless a catostrophic defeat were to occur, and even then they would be fairly quick to be rebuilt. On the western border with Colombia the troops are holding a defensive position, not trying to advance. On the eastern border with colombia and in Brazil, the objective remains to advance. Forces on the Colombian/Argentinian line are evenly matched, so there isn't much movement. A large force was sent from the east to come in from behind and regain the lands taken by the Colombians. The advance against brazil has been slowed, but so far the increasingly fragmented Brazilian forces have been unable to contain the Argentinian armies. the initial war fever in Brazil is subsiding fast and there are increasing amounts of mutterings against the dictator as the war is clearly not going in his favor.

Argentina has offered peace terms as follows-

to brazil: we maintain all lands we have taken as well as gaining a small strip to connect our isolated portions. A semi-republican form of government will be instated in brazil, with representation for the people and a senate to counter the power of the dictator, which will be reduced.

to Colombia: you must recognize the terms we have offered to Brazil as well as returning to us the land you have recently taken.

	15-12-2002 11:36									#209
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To the Ottomans: We will accept the following conditions for peace. The Balakand becomes a province of the Greater German Reich, with full regional autonomy, but with fedral matters referred back to the Imperial Capital of Frankfurt. Egypt becomes independent. And you Demilitarise the borders with Germany and Egypt. Egypt independence shall be ensured by German Iron and Blood. We shall also go to war if you invade the Persian Empire. Also Turkey is to downsize its Army to Meduim Large and Its Navy to Small. If these limitaions are not met than war will resume. German weapons inspectors will be able to go throughout your 'union' and inspect at will on any illegal arms. If you do not like this than war will continue. I gave you a chance, and your former leaders blew it, you have to live with their mistakes.

The German Army begins a rapid advance, helped by the recent coup in Turkey.

To Russia and WCi: I ask to sign a NAP. Also I suggest that all borders that we have in common are made DMZ zones 20 miles each side to prevent war happening again. This includes the German Dominions of Tibet and Siam

occ: Hey can you make it obvious on the map that I have Siam and Tibet on the map Civman..... They are autonomous dominions of the Greater German Reich

Last edited by Sheep on 15-12-2002 at 13:04

	15-12-2002 12:09									#210
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To all nations of the world: Do not forget our prescence! In recent events, our neutrality has helped us move our army to Very Large, and our new and improved Navy (with US help) to Huge.

We will remain neutral!