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vovan
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Foreword
Hello, everybody. I am Vovan, and I joined the Stella Polaris Development Team a little over a week ago as a developer. I haven't had a chance to greet all of you yet, or even introduce myself, and I believe Rasbelin is the only person that actually knows of my existence: everybody else must be looking at the list of members on SourceForge and wondering: "Who's that Vovansim dude?" Well, that's me. 
Now, even though I might be rather new to the team, I have read most of the posts on this board, and am more or less up to speed on what's going on. I am also full of ideas, of course, and have written some of them below. If they have been proposed / rejected / accepted already, please feel free to tell me so. 
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vovan
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Introduction
I noticed that there is very little information on factions, and figured we need to change that. But before we dive headfirst into a list of thirty factions, we need to think what will be different among them. In other words, names don't really matter right now. We first need to come up with a certain classification for them, and then, once we are clear on what traits, advantages, and weak points a faction has, we will be free to name it, draw a flag for it, think of what the leader should look like and what not.
Also, as I was compiling this list of traits for factions, as explained in the concept part below, I realized that this also includes a lot of other game information, which I mostly gathered from other posts here, and others I came up with on my own. Since I just recently joined the team, I never had a chance to see the posts from what I understand was an old forum with plenty of ideas, which is now gone. Therefore, feel free to reiterate the points made there, as well as add to the things I mention here, which have been addressed already. In other words, we can probably use this thread as a "think tank" for all things related to factions, and not only their system of traits.
However, I won't digress any further. To business:
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vovan
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Concept
So, classification is the hard part. Since we would like to have 30 civilizations, *and* the flexibility that would allow the player to create more or less unique factions, we can make one conclusion right away: having each faction possess two traits out of a single list, like was done in Civ3 will not work. Therefore, I propose the following system:
Each faction has six attributes:
- Science
- Diplomacy / Attitude
- Military
- Government
- Building / Economy
- Religion
Once again, names of these categories don't matter too much right now, since we are talking in terms of a concept here. Now, each of the 'attributes' is chosen from a list of five possible values, each of which has certain benefits as well as some drawbacks.
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vovan
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Science
So, the possible values for science would be the different 'classes' of technologies. Each, value would increase the research speed in that area by S%, it would also increase the research in some other area by P%, and decrease the research speed in some third area by N%. I think it would make sense if the values were the following:
Of course, we could tweak the values all we want. Once again, I am just proposing a concept here. I am choosing specific numbers just so that the following table is easier to read. So then, Science would have these possible qualities and effects:
- Biology
Positive: Biology +10%, Chemistry +5%; Negative: Mathematics -15%
- Chemistry
Positive: Chemistry +10%, Social +5%; Negative: Physics -15%
- Physics
Positive: Physics +10%, Biology +5%; Negative: Social -15%
- Mathematics & Cybernetics
Positive: Math +10%, Physics +5%; Negative: Chemistry -15%
- Social Sciences & Philosophy
Positive: Social +10%, Math +5%; Negative: Biology -15%
This list is based on the classification of technologies by Jmaster in the Technology List thread. It will change according to the classification of sciences we choose to implement.
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vovan
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Diplomacy / Attitude
This affects the faction's relationships with other factions. I follow the ideas of Vultur in the New Faction philosophies thread. I did not use all of them, and some of them I edited, but in general here goes:
- Isolationist
Positive: Increased production. Negative: Will be hard to establish diplomatic relations. Or slower expansion of borders.
- Trader
Positive: Make more profit off of trade with other factions. Negative: increased corruption levels maybe?
- Hawk
Positive: Decreased war weariness. Negative: Less profit from trade.
- Pacifist / Dove
Positive: Faster expansion of borders. Negative: Increased war weariness.
- Robin Hood
Positive: Easy MPP's with weak factions. Negative: The largest faction in the world will be unhappy.
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vovan
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Military
This is basically how aggressive a faction is. It will mostly affect military production speed. It will be intertwined with Diplomacy and Economy. So, to create the ultimate war machine, a player might choose to be aggressive militarily, be a hawk diplomatically, and choose a military type of economy. Of course, that would have a lot of drawbacks, and would not allow for a good combination. In reality, the player will need to balance all of the traits. So, the military values will be arranged like this:
- Very Peaceful
Positive: +10% Science, +10% industrial production. Negative: +10% war weariness, -10% production speed for all things military.
- Peaceful
Positive: +5% Science, +5% industrial production. Negative: +5% war weariness, -5% production speed for all things military.
- Average
Positive: none. Negative: none.
- Aggressive
Positive: -5% war weariness, +5% production speed for all things military. Negative: -5% Science, -5% industrial production.
- Very Aggressive
Positive: -10% war weariness, +10% production speed for all things military. Negative: -10% Science, -10% industrial production.
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vovan
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Government
This is the quality of the faction that determines which government type they prefer. If the faction uses a 'preferred' type of government, then all of the benefits that that type of government gives are boosted, but all the drawbacks are more severe.
- Absolutism
In the factions, where this type of government is valued, there are no limits imposed on the government.
- Theocracy
These people think that the ruler (or the rulers) is appointed by God, and therefore should not be challenged.
- Monarchy
There can be only one ruler. We will probably need to change that name, since it infers in the minds of most people having kings. But I am using the word in a slightly different sense: as a direct translation - "rule of one." Therefore, this "monarchy" includes the traditional monarchy with kings, czars, etc., as well as dictatorships and totalitarian governments, where one person ceases (sp?) the power.
- Oligarchy
The select few rule the country. One enlightened one is not enough any more. But still, some people are better than others, and therefore, the "elite few" deserve all the power.
- Rule of the people
Yays and cheers! The perfect form of government! Right...  Pretty self-explanatory.
Well, in relation to that list, we need to define the governments then:
- Absolutism:
- Autocracy
A single leader is free to do what he wills, and his decisions are not directed by some system of laws, but rather by his subjective opinion, the ruler uses his power in an arbitrary way.
- Dictatorship
Once again, a single ruler has absolute control of the country. He is more fierce and merciless than the autocrat, and would rather use force than brains unlike the former.
- Anarchy:
- Chaotic Anarchy
No organized government. The factions with this sort of government are very vulnerable to traditional conquest, since there is no central power to guide them. The industrial production is also slowed down greatly.
Positive: Well, not that I can think of. Negative: as listed above -- everything is pretty much slowed down. Industry, science, and profits are all depleted.
- Transcendent Anarchy <-- I need a new name!
This is the ultimate utopian society, where people are organized by individual responsibility, and creativity. It is a kind of quasi-socialism. This type of government can only be used by very advanced factions, and gives benefits aplenty.
Positive: increased science output, increased psi values, great boosts in favour from religious and peaceful factions. Negative: virtually halted industrial production, very low esteem from hawkish and atheistic factions.
Limitations: some social tech needs to be discovered. (secret of the soul?)
- Theocracy:
Couldn't really think of different kinds of theocracy. I guess there could be only two:
- One ruler, who is appointed by some deity, or is a son of a god, like the pharaohs of Egypt
- A group of rulers appointed by god. That would be some kind of a ruling body of priests, who govern everything.
Such factions would rely heavily on religion, as well as have a society heavily divided into casts.
- Monarchy:
Once again, I want to emphasize that the word monarchy here is not used in the colloquial sense meaning the rule of a king/queen, but rather in the original meaning of the word: rule of one.
- Charismocracy
The ruler gains and keeps his rule by the sole use of charisma. The people are attracted to him through some kind of almost animal feelings. One word from his mouth is enough to raise armies and destroy cities.
- Meritocracy
The ruler gains and keeps his rule through his natural abilities, most notably, intellectual. Therefore, scientific achievement is also very much valued in society.
- Oligarchy:
- Aristocracy
Rule by the elite few, passed on through inheritance. Often times create oppressive social structure, consisting of several casts. This form of government is a little more 'advanced' than monarchy, since not one, but several people rule the country. It is still rather primitive, and the members of the ruling family are often subject to assassinations plotted by their relatives as well as people from the rival clans.
Positive: Less corruption than in the most primitive government type. More production. Negative: political instability1, unhappy people.
- Exerocracy (from lat. exercitus - army) <-- I need a new name!
The rulers of the country are the select few military leaders, who have been proven the best in combat.
Positive: military benefits.
- Plutocracy
The members of the ruling elite are chosen by personal wealth, rather than by birth as in aristocracy. The poor have no way of affecting governmental decisions.
- Real-world Communism 2
Unlike the theoretical communism described under Rule of the People, this one is not that birght at all. It resembles a dictatorial state, since the real nature of man surfaces. In fact, the well-being of the nation is nothing to those people compared to their own wealth. And since the whole idea behind this form of government dwells on the devotion of the people to the greater cause, when it is gone, the whole system is corrupted. The government of the factions that adopt this form of rule oppresses people and enjoys the benefits of increased industrial production through enforcement. However, the people are not (and in fact cannot) be happy in such a country, and therefore, large amounts of armed forces need to be present in every city to contain armed rebellions.
- Syndicracy
The rulers are the CEO's of the most successful corporations.
- Scientocracy <-- I need a new name!
The rulers are chosen from the most successful scientists in each area of research.
Positive: scientific rates are boosted. Negative: economy goes down the drain, together with religion.
- Rule of the people:
- Democracy
Well, I am sure you all have read the history books. Democracy is a state where people exercise all the political power.
- Ideal Communism 2
This is unlike the communism that had been implemented in several countries on Earth, but rather the ideal, utopian, communism, envisioned by those, whose original idea it was. There is no oppression or discrimination, the society is very liberal. Everybody is happy, because there are no rich people, and there are no poor people: the classes are virtually eliminated, ridding the faction that uses this sort of government of the tensions associated with class struggle. The well-being of the nation is the first and foremost concern of every citizen. Personal wealth has no value at all. All forms of cult and religion have been abolished.
Positive: Increased loyalty, increased industrial production. Negative: decreased profits, religious factions become hostile.
- Libertarianism
Libertarians believe in individual conscience and personal, individual choice. They reject any use of force for whatever reason.
Alternatively, we can organize the governments not by the number of rulers, as I did above, but the sovereignty of the citizens, if you will. Then, the scale would look like this:
- Centralized: A type of government whereby the sovereignty of the parties to the union is totally in the control of the government.
Communism
- Adhesioned: A type of government whereby the sovereignty of the parties of the union is mostly in the control of the government.
Socialism
- Confederated: A type of government whereby the sovereignty of the government is totally in the control of the parties to the union.
Libertarianism
- Associated: A type of government whereby the sovereignty of the government is mostly in the control of the parties to the union.
Democracy
- Polarized: A type of government whereby the sovereignty of the parties to the union and the government is shared or divided equally, or a type of null government where the sovereignty of all parties is unable to be determined, and is maintained by force.
Anarchy
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vovan
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Building / Economy
This characteristic will have the most profound effects on industrial production and economy. We might want to consider the effects of it on other 'social' factors, in which case we could add more choices. Alternatively, we could introduce a seventh major category, named Social Order, or something to that extent. But any way, let us stick to the original idea for now. In that case, we might have the following:
- Market Economy
Capitalism. The people are selfish, but prosperous.
Positive: Increased profits / commerce values by certain tiles, maybe? Negative: Increased levels of corruption.
- Planned Economy
Government is very much involved in the economy. People themselves make less decisions.
Positive: increased speeds of production (in civ terms: more shields per certain tiles). Negative: The positive effects are being lost for cities larger than X.
- Traditional Economy
The people are mainly farmers. This type of economy is traditional in earth's terms.
Positive: Increased food production -or- faster population growth. Negative: decreased scientific output.
- New Economy 1<-- I need a new name!
The people value technological progress more than anything. Money doesn't matter, as long as you have knowledge.
Positive: boost in scientific output. Negative: ecology value is less, more pollution.
- New Economy 2 <-- I need a new name!
It is all about spirituality and mental powers.
Positive: increased psi values or what not. Negative: decreased industrial production.
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vovan
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Religion
This is the major religion / system of beliefs of the faction. We could consider making it something like 'social policy' instead, but again, that's just a name. It can be changed any time. So, the possible values could be like this:
- Atheists / Technocrats
These folks don't believe in anything unless they see a scientific confirmation.
Positive: Increase in science research rate. Negative: Less support for the government, increased pollution (or whatever you want to call it - worse interaction with the nature.)
- Theocrats / Believers
These guys believe in a certain higher entity. They are ready to believe in the divine will. They are also purists.
Positive: Increased industry and production. Negative: Decreased birth rate (the despise sex as impure...)
- Cult / Planet Worshipping
These are the "dancing in the woods naked" type of people. 'Nuff said.
Positive: Increased ecology. Negative: Increased war weariness.
- Fundamentalists / Fanatics
They will follow the tradition without a question. They will trust the leader fanatically.
Positive: Increased government loyalty (certain spy missions have less chance of success), decreased war weariness (Since they want to fight the "infidels"). Negative: Much decreased scientific research rate, maybe a limit on the frequency of government type changes?
- Monks / Hermits
These are isolationist. They want to sit on a rock, overlooking the sea, and meditate.
Positive: Increased psychic abilities, an upper hand in Psy combat. Negative: Decreased industrial production.
Thanks on this one go to Leland, who outlined these ideas in the New Faction philosophies thread.
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vovan
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Conclusion
Once again, I say that the names and the specific benefits I listed are for the purpose of example only. My main idea was to present the concept, which is this:
Each faction has six attributes. Each of the six attributes can be chosen from five possible values, every one of which gives certain benefits to the faction as well as results in some weak points.
Now, if my math is correct, this system of traits would result in 15,625 possible unique factions (or is it 7,776?  Combinatorics has never been my strong point, sorry). In either case, I am sure the players will be happy enough with the number of choices, and the ability to create custom factions to their liking. All we need to do, is find 30 best choices, which also balance each other out and build them into the game as templates.
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vovan
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Notes
- Political instability:
I don't know if we would really want to complicate the game like that, but I thought we could add a certain factor of political instability into the game. What it would do is this: when a ruler isn't doing too well, the people might randomly overthrow the government and descend into anarchy. It wouldn't mean an instant loss of the game, and would work like any revolution (if that is still how the governments are going to change) in that after a certain number of turns, the ruler will be offered a choice of available governments. Maybe only with the exception of the fact the he wouldn't be allowed to choose the same government as before the forced revolution? The period of political instability might result from different events. It could be partly due to chance, but in greatest part due to the actions of the ruler. So, for instance if the type of government is such that it emphasizes making profits, and the faction itself has such characteristic from the above list that the people value economic prosperity above all else, but in reality the nation is not making much profit, economic instability might result. Or, if the nation is pacifist, and the ruler is constantly in war, the people might revolt. Or, if the people are planet worshipper, but there is pollution everywhere, they might overthrow the government, etc., etc.. Certainly, as with most design choices, there are good and there are bad sides to this idea. (Thankfully, we are discussing the game before actually coding it. Otherwise, there would have been tons of useless code.)
Pro: Such feature could possibly bring a lot of fun and realism into the gameplay. It is rather innovative in that none of the previous TBS's sported such a feature (AFAIK).
Con: Quite clearly, such situation (like in real world) would often result in tough times, making them even worse. Imagine going into anarchy before the most important battle, or when you are losing money as is. On the good side, it will force you to change your strategy, and remain more flexible throughout the game (and think twice before choosing that faction again the next time around )
Possible solution: Make political instability appear only on higher levels of difficulty. From the average up. Note that I don't think it would be such a good idea to implement it into the game and allow it to be turned off through options. I think it should be a necessary evil - a lot like corruption.
- Real-world Communism vs. Ideal Communism:
The differences between the two types of governments are pretty much described above in the definitions, but what we could do is maybe restrict how the player could choose one of those. Ideal Communism would require very high moral standards of the nation, just like the utopian anarchy. Therefore, maybe give the player only one choice: communism - and if some very advanced tech has been discovered, or maybe some other requirements met as well, it would be the ideal communism, otherwise it would be the real-world communism? Alternatively, we could give both choices, and leave it up to the player to decide which form of communism they want, but then if the ideal one is chosen, but the requirements are not met, it will eventually revert to the real-world one?
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vovan
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quote:
Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
 i have nothing more to say then wow....great work!....
<snip>
i wouldnt use it totally as fixed traits for faction because then they will be set for the entire game.
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Thanks. I did that during the Thanksgiving break, when I didn't have access to the Internet to waste my time surfing, didn't have homework to do, or any CD's to play games. So, I wasted my time thinking and typing
Concerning the fixed traits, I have a couple of things to add, I suppose. It is true that I personally like Civ more than SMAC
:ducks to avoid the stones flying at him:
So, I was drawing more inspiration from that series. However, I do favour the idea of 'civil engineering'. I was thinking along the lines of combining both: civil engineering and faction-specific, 'fixed' traits. Because otherwise, how are the factions going to be different? I think it is a little boring when you choose a faction and know that no matter which one you choose, you will be able to tune it up exactly like you did last time with the CE screen. That kind of defeats the point of having factions in my opinion.
Therefore, it is only natural to limit the flexibility of changing the behaviour of a faction during the game, by setting some of the parameters to be constant when you choose the nation to play for. That would provide for more diverse gameplay.
So, what I had in mind is something like this: you still have civil engineering, but the effects of your choices are determined in part by the static qualities of your faction. So, for instance, if you are trying to promote religion in a faction of atheists, the benefits will be less than if you try to do it in a faction, where the preferred government is Theocracy. Or if you are trying to set up a militarized state in a society of pacifists, you will have less success than if it were a hawkish faction. I think that would be more fun that having equal factions (with exception for unique units, or what not) and being able to control them fully through civil engineering.
I know I haven't touched the matter of civil engineering in my original posts, so I hope this clears my ideas up a little bit 
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03-12-2002 01:23
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