12-01-2003 03:38									#181
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Guys, that's awesome news! Sorry, but I am dead tired (played a ricochet tournament today, five exhausting matches...) now and will go to bed right now. I promise to post the chronicle update in the morning (about 7 hours form now). I will now at least upload saves so you can see for yourself.

	12-01-2003 09:42									#182
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SE of the settler's location does look nice. It's on the river (so it can also grow to 12 w/out an aqueduct there) and it's normal grassland, so we won't lose any shields and we'll be able to farm all of the floodplains, without burying one underneath a city. It has access to the wheat floodplains and two bonus grasslands in its first, uncultured ring. (The same is true of the current floodplain tile, though.)

So, I'd say either its current location or the floodplains. It's a matter of an extra turn (which is nothing to sneeze at) vs. future plans.

Overall, I'd say the SE grass tile. It's better for future growth, and it's only adjacent to two instead of three disease tiles (it might be two instead of four, if a city's base tile is counted); and we don't want disease striking our cities this early in the game. Every pop point is vital.

	12-01-2003 10:05									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep SE of the settler's location does look nice. It's on the river (so it can also grow to 12 w/out an aqueduct there) and it's normal grassland, so we won't lose any shields and we'll be able to farm all of the floodplains, without burying one underneath a city. It has access to the wheat floodplains and two bonus grasslands in its first, uncultured ring. (The same is true of the current floodplain tile, though.) So, I'd say either its current location or the floodplains. It's a matter of an extra turn (which is nothing to sneeze at) vs. future plans. Overall, I'd say the SE grass tile. It's better for future growth, and it's only adjacent to two instead of three disease tiles (it might be two instead of four, if a city's base tile is counted); and we don't want disease striking our cities this early in the game. Every pop point is vital.

I am all for moving the settler one tile SE (I even mentioned this in the original goody hut popping plan). It was probably a wise thing to leave the new settler with Conan for this turn, but for the next one, I would move both of them one tile SE, founding Farmerville (? ) on the next but one turn.

	12-01-2003 11:26									#184
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The Chronicle has been updated with the latest and greatest news. My suggestions for the next turn:

1) Howard NE
2) Merc E
3) Gaul S
4) Conan+Settler SE, planning to found a city on the next turn (see Kloreep's fine reasoning - plus, if you think of another city that will be placed probably SE-S from the Rich Twin... placing Farmerville SE of the former Sumerian village is way better overlap-wise - we would probably not even need to relocate it later).

Sorry, no time to elaborate in more details - I have another tournament today, this time a squash one...

	13-01-2003 01:41									#185
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I agree with Vondrack.

Howard NE

Conan + Settler SE to found city there unless they uncover bad terrain or worse - another civ's city (make sure that we move Conan first)

Gaul S (though I wondered about moving him east instead)

Merc moving back toward Legopolis and use Angus or Merc to escort the settler to wherever he is going in a few turns.

A question now arises is where to move our Legoland settler to? For a long time we have assumed the western area, but while that is fine we have uncovered some other good city positions in the south - though they are rather far away.

I think that we should send the Legopolis settler to the west and then to start concentating on colonizing the south. Given the strong initial shield output in the west, I think we should send Angus there and have it build a merc.

I think that we need to finalize what we will be building next in our cities as we only have 3-5 turns to make up our minds.

I would suggest either a worker or settler in Jackson, a merc perhaps in Legopolis or perhaps a granary... I am not sure what to suggest for our new southern city - although we should get it building settlers as soon as possible.

	13-01-2003 02:40									#186
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Moves:

Jackson: Settler next.
Legopolis: Build either a Numidian or a warrior or two, followed by a settler. I don't think we should build archers till we have more escorts (either Warriors or Mercs), and we might not want to build any at all, if it turn's out we're alone on this island; Mercs will do for Barbarian sweeping, and they upgrade.
After those next two settlers are built, we may want to focus on workers; we'll probably have used up all the good city sites, unless there's an awesome location over the isthmus.

I ran a sim, and here's the corruption table for Farmerville:

Shields Gathered (before corruption)	Shields Produced (after corruption)
1	1
2	1
3	2
4	2
5	3

Since corruption is so high, I'm going to go against my current pro-settler, anti-worker feelings and say we should build a settler worker. It's an efficient shield-to-pop ratio (10 shields to 1 pop point rather than 30 shields to 2 pop points), and we need to set up mining on those bonus grasses ASAP to get it producing a reasonable amount of shields. And that wheat will produce an awesome 5 food after it's irrigated. Once the worker's done with farmerville, it can either road toward Legopolis, or road toward and improve city sites to the west.

Last edited by Kloreep on 13-01-2003 at 06:34

	13-01-2003 03:41									#187
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We should keep expanding untill we got a lot of cities and use up all the area near the capital were the cities will not suffer from that much corruption. I have done this in other games and it has worked very well for me. But we really need to build anther worker soon. We will very shortly have 4 cities and only one worker, That is not good at all.

	13-01-2003 06:35									#188
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Ack, I accidentally wrote "settler" instead of worker. I think we should build a worker in the new city.

	13-01-2003 09:06									#189
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With our recent windfall, I'm going to update the Lego Development plan as best I can. The multitude of city possibilities for our new friend are compelling...

	13-01-2003 12:08									#190
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After loading up the latest turn to get some screenshots for the Lego Growth Plan, I noticed something quite interesting. I'm using Snoopy's graphics mod, and though it's hard to see on the screenshots Vondrack has posted, there is quite clearly a large area of coastal tile west of the isthmus. Judging by the way it curves, I am positive there is a substantial amount of land there, quite possibly even to the point that the body of water west of the isthmus is actually enclosed, with the land connecting to the patch of land that juts out further south that we didn't really explore.

Also, about 2 tiles north of the mountains north of the sandbox, there is more coastal tile clearly visiable, meaning that perhaps the next continent over extends almost to us, or there is an island up there. Either way, something worth investigating soon, and begging for us to get to map making.

	13-01-2003 12:41									#191
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quote: Originally posted by ZargonX After loading up the latest turn to get some screenshots for the Lego Growth Plan, I noticed something quite interesting. I'm using Snoopy's graphics mod, and though it's hard to see on the screenshots Vondrack has posted, there is quite clearly a large area of coastal tile west of the isthmus. Judging by the way it curves, I am positive there is a substantial amount of land there, quite possibly even to the point that the body of water west of the isthmus is actually enclosed, with the land connecting to the patch of land that juts out further south that we didn't really explore. Also, about 2 tiles north of the mountains north of the sandbox, there is more coastal tile clearly visiable, meaning that perhaps the next continent over extends almost to us, or there is an island up there. Either way, something worth investigating soon, and begging for us to get to map making.

Yep, it is not visible very well on the map, as the map is heavily scaled down (almost to 50%) to fit into the 800xsomething frame. But Sharpe did mention being almost sure there's "something" to the West of the isthmus. I confirm the observation of both of you. Another landmass is very near to ours, at least to the west.

	14-01-2003 07:23									#192
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quote: But Sharpe did mention being almost sure there's "something" to the West of the isthmus. I confirm the observation of both of you. Another landmass is very near to ours, at least to the west.

Yes, I thought that I saw something - it clearly shows a coastline 2 squares to the west of Howard in the 2710 BC save. In the 2630 save a whole row of coastline is visible too.

My concern was then and is now that that small dark portion of that western peninsula may in fact connect to that western landmass. If so, that may become a problem especially as we have no one nearby to explore it at the moment.

I suggest that we have Angus or the Merc (guess we need to name him soon as another is coming) escort the settler and then after the city is founded, move toward that western peninsula just to make sure.

Suggested movement of our explorers for next turn:

Conan - East (we need to get rid of that dark bulge)
Gaul - South
Howard - North and then to the mountain
Merc - Back toward Legoland

I still somewhat favour that western area for our 4th city - it is relatively nearby and would allow us to have an outlet to build a galley to explore the western sea once we have map making. Admittedly it would need a worker to quickly irrigate those plains squares. Also just wondering is that desert at the beginning of the isthmus?

	14-01-2003 14:50									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe I suggest that we have Angus or the Merc (guess we need to name him soon as another is coming) escort the settler and then after the city is founded, move toward that western peninsula just to make sure.

What about MercG?
or MercDonald, normally using just Donald...

I believe that Howard will be back from the peninsula trip by that time, ready to go explore the suspicious tile.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Suggested movement of our explorers for next turn: Conan - East (we need to get rid of that dark bulge) Gaul - South Howard - North and then to the mountain Merc - Back toward Legoland

Agreed.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Also just wondering is that desert at the beginning of the isthmus?

Yes, it is.

NOTE, PLEASE

I have updated the last chronicle entry to reflect the replayed 2950BC turn. If anyone keeps archives of the savegames, download the current ones and replace the corrupted ones that were there before.

Also, on the next turn, I will trash savegames for turns 11-20 (up to 3050BC), leaving only the last ten turns available online.

	14-01-2003 15:30									#194
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I like MercG

	15-01-2003 03:46									#195
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MercG.

	15-01-2003 05:17									#196
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MercG rules !

	15-01-2003 08:28									#197
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As it seems that we might be somewhat isolated due to the GS map, I think that baring any sudden discovery in the southeast, we should favor the "Panama" western city location over RedBricks right now.

It also would favor researching map making next perhaps (though I would still favor Iron Working or The Wheel right after).

MercG sounds good - will the next ones be MercDanalds or Merng the Merciless?

	15-01-2003 17:08									#198
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Because our settler is almosr ready, my preferences for the next city:
1. Forkmouth
2. Panama
3. There is no nr.3

PS In Legopolis I'm for a new Merc. (Merciless sounds good).

	15-01-2003 18:17									#199
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Tibi, Forkmouth, while generally a great location, will suffer from heavy corruption and waste (at least until it gets connected). Besides, getting our settler there would take 9 turns, IIRC. I would prefer going for Panama or Red Bricks. Considering the landmass we discovered to the West, Panama is probably my #1 now.

As we need to decide urgently, I am going to post a poll.

	15-01-2003 18:36									#200
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The corruption would be the same (almost) as in Farmville and the site is awesome. Conneting these 2 cities to Legopolis is anyway a top priority (I'd suggest a worker in Legopolis after the next merc.)

But I'm not against Panama.

	15-01-2003 18:50									#201
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius The corruption would be the same (almost) as in Farmville and the site is awesome. Conneting these 2 cities to Legopolis is anyway a top priority (I'd suggest a worker in Legopolis after the next merc.) But I'm not against Panama.

You are correct about the level of corruption/waste in Farmerville and Forkmouth. However, Farmerville was founded with the idea of a worker/settler farm, where the corruption and waste play less important roles (as the farm operates mainly on food - as long as it has two or three shields, it's ok).

And I do agree we should connect our cities ASAP. However, it will take QUITE some time because of the jungle... hopefully the Farmerville workers will speed this up a lot.

	16-01-2003 08:04									#202
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Suggested movement for next turn:

Gaul - Southeast on to the hill
Conan - Northeast or East or South
Howard - North
MercG - depends on what citysite is chosen

Only concern is that the black area is very close to Farmerville - we should try to clear that out asap as we all know that black areas cause barbarians...

	16-01-2003 12:10									#203
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My suggestions:

Gaul - SW
Conan - East
Howard - North
MercG - SW (waiting then one turn for the settler) (it is highly possible that Panama will be the next city)

	16-01-2003 12:26									#204
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I just played our current Turn and they are barbarians near Jackson!! We need to take action to protect our worker and Jackson

	16-01-2003 12:33									#205
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Hmm... that's no good... once we see the chronicle, we can decide on a course of action.

	16-01-2003 15:47									#206
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Well, yes, we do have a situation here, but it is not as bad as it might look at the first glance...

First: let me note that the barbarians have their "turn" only after we end ours, so Jack had no idea they would be coming until he hit the End Turn button. This puzzled me at first, 'cause I was not able to see any barbs anywhere after loading the savegame he sent me... That's also why I had to put a red marker to the tile barbs appeared on, instead of just taking a screenshot.

Second: the unnecessary Angus' move complicates things a bit, but not dramatically. He or MercG will be able to reach the Jackson area in three turns, which should be ok.

Third: even though it looks like Jackson and the worker are in a great danger, it is in fact just a minor nuisance, delaying our worker from mining the cattle tile by one turn, I think.

Here is why (do check that what I am saying is correct, I may have made a mistake that could cost us dearly! could somelike run a sim verifying my assumptions are correct?):

Turn 32: (the recent one)
Start: Jackson Merc 2 turns from being complete
Start: Worker ordered to road the cattle tile
End: Barbs entering the hill tile N-NW of Jackson

Turn 33: (the next one)
Start: Jackson Merc 1 turn from being complete
Start: Worker roading, 1 turn from finishing the road
Turn: MercG entering Legopolis
Turn: Angus escorting the Settler along the Plastico River
End: Barbs closing in, entering either the tile N or NE of Jackson (or both, if they split)

Turn 34:
Start: Jackson Merc complete! (named Merciless)
Start: Worker finished roading, returning to Jackson or even continuing further along the road towards Legopolis
Turn: Merciless fortifying
Turn: MercG rushing towards Legopolis, getting two roaded tiles from Jackson
End: Barb(s) either attacking Jackson (getting killed, probability being 97% without the chieftain barb combat bonus of 400%!) or moving to the cattle tile, inteding to pillage

Turn 35
Turn: Merciless killing one of the barbs
Turn: MercG killing the other one (probability of a Merc killing the barbarian warrior is about 75% without the chieftain barb combat bonus of 400%!)
End: Barbs dead. Jackson and worker safe. Celebrations held.

Now, am I missing anything important?

	16-01-2003 15:50									#207
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Well, aside from the response to the barb raid, I believe we had nothing very special to do on the next turn...

Howard S
Gaul S
Conan SE
Angus+Settler NW
Legopolis to build a Merc

	16-01-2003 20:37									#208
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I have a question that may be stupid, but that has never stopped me in the past.

Does attacking the barbarian initiate our golden age? I not sure if the rules are different with barbarians.

	16-01-2003 21:17									#209
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quote: Originally posted by lmtoops I have a question that may be stupid

You're right, it is

The answer is no, attacking barbarians doesn't initiate a golden age.

	16-01-2003 21:37									#210
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Jack, why did you move Gaul to SW ??? I'd have kept him on the hills, where he can see more, but if you wanted to explore the coast instead, why didn't you move him W, on the forest (and on the next turn S) ? I'm afraid I don't really understand this move.