27-01-2003 12:03									#631
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Togas quote: Originally posted by Arnelos if ND were to go to war with Lux, the calculation on Lux's part is that the GoW and RP Team vultures will start circling the ND corpse... Lux is doing this because they think they can get away with it. I absolutely agree. Who is going to stop Lux? Us? We're their allies. They think we're going to join them and take a city or two ourselves. They think it's in our best interest to kill ND because ND is a threat to our Cow Valley expansions! They probably think they can easily bribe in GoW and ally in us, and jointly crush ND.

I suppose my point is that what we CAN do is to kindly point out to them that their calculation is, in fact, a MIScalculation. Glory of War will stab them in the back and they'll do it both because it's the obvious thing to do AND because ND will likely pay them to do it (though Glory of War needs no encouragement).

Also share with Lux Invicta what Glory of War told us about that Horseback Riding "treaty" and the "Technology Alliance". Use it as an example of the fact that GoW are liars... and not very good ones at that No need to embelish it or anything... just share the PM/PM's as they were written. It should speak for itself as long as they find it believable (a factor we can't really control).

I'm sure Lux Invicta will find it interesting that Glory of War is claiming that treaties exist which prevent them from sharing tech with us that in fact do not exist. When I laid out the possibilities of what I figured GoW might be up to, I honestly didn't figure they'd be so abjectly stupid as to miscalculate SO BADLY to make up treaties out of thin air.... as though we don't communicate with the other teams

Seriously... I honestly find it difficult to wrap my mind around the concept of Glory of War being THAT stupid! Do they WANT everyone to gang up on them?!? Then again, this is GhengisFarb.... and his attempts at "manipulation" have always been rather... overdone. Something tells me that Unorthodox might have been smarter than this... a pity for GoW that he wasn't around.

They decided from the outset that they didn't want to deal with the vagueries of diplomacy and just wanted a good fight... they may get just what they asked for

I agree with Togas, however, that ideally we should wait on war until we are more built up. Once we reasonably have our home area settled and others have reasonably settled their areas, a coalition war to rid the world of the Glory of War may not be such a bad idea. By then, we'll be able to see relative sizes of empires and be able to determine which team (Lux or ND) we want to get various shares of the available land and are willing to give us more territory to compensate for our assistance.

We'll see...

	27-01-2003 19:23									#632
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Crousto Well, looks like Lux isn't aware that they agreed with GoW to not trade Horseback Riding with us Either Lux is taking GoW for fools by breaking a 'non-disclosure agreement' about Horseback Riding, or GoW is making the most stupid diplomatic move ever by telling us such an obvious lie.

Or, Lux could be taking us for fools with that deal.

E_T

	27-01-2003 19:51									#633
	Inflate your Upload Space

Tech Trading - the possibility for them to steal it.

I'm still learning how the diplo screen works in the PBEM, but I beleave that there is the possibility of our tech being stolen from us.

If we go and start the tech trade prosess & offer up Writing (or Mysticism) and they go and accept without sending anything back, doesn't that mean that they would get the tech for free, or does it come back to us for final approval??

The reason that I'm asking this, is that, with the tech non-disclosure deal that Lux is supposed to have with GoW, if we go and trade them Writing for Riding, but at the last minute, Lux opts out and sites their Agreement with GoW and takes our tech and then gives us a promice to gift us their next tech. THis would go with that tech deal that they had wanted earlier.

If we do the next tech deals, we need to make sure that Lux starts the process and so that we can insure that they don't back out on us.

Eta Tamali

	27-01-2003 20:01									#634
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Instead of ND sending us a screen shot, we can ask them if they will allow 1 Conscript (or Reg) Warrior to enter their Territory and so that we can see for ourselves. We'll promice to stay out of the way of their troop/worker movements. THis way, we aren't violating an agreement with Lux, about exploring north (technically) but are observing the concers of our Neighbor and our ally (and making sure that our Alliance with Lux is not abused).

We should offer the same alliance to ND, that we have with Lux. This would also try to prevent a Lux-ND conflict. THis will also allow us to opt out of those alliances, per the clausing, if one does erupt up there.

Eta Tamali

	27-01-2003 21:39									#635
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by E_T If we go and start the tech trade prosess & offer up Writing (or Mysticism) and they go and accept without sending anything back, doesn't that mean that they would get the tech for free, or does it come back to us for final approval??

No, both players have to set their status on 'accept' to complete the trade. You can send a proposition without setting your status on 'accept'. And if you change something in the trade, the other player has to accept it again.

	27-01-2003 21:49									#636
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Posted by ETWe should offer the same alliance to ND, that we have with Lux. This would also try to prevent a Lux-ND conflict. THis will also allow us to opt out of those alliances, per the clausing, if one does erupt up there.

But I still think that it would be good if we would inform lux tactically of our increasing friendship with ND, thus they will expect us to sign us treaty and not take US for cheaters and betrayers.

If Jdjdjd or Togas want it, I can do so through my informal relationship to BFM. Talking pretending loose is a strong diplomatic weapon.

Aidun Cian

	27-01-2003 22:44									#637
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

If we were in the position of ND, we would certainly try to convince GoW and Lux that we are not the good target but that Spain is. Two arguments : the histograph shows that the biggest civ is Spain even if the average score says that ND is first, and Spain has a lot of space to expand (that their scout has explored), whereas ND has not much; so in a near future, Spain will dominate the continent.

These arguments are certainly well received by GoW, and ND is possibly not happy to see that Lux is (perhaps) a bit reluctant to accept them. Then, we can understand that ND does not want to be the spearhead of our diplomatic offensive to isolate GoW.

We can adapt our stance as follows :
- stop campaigning for the isolation of Gow; since it appears that friendship is out of reach, we will make ordinary business with them;
- reinforce the alliance with Lux by all means;
- insist for negotiating a formal treaty with ND, at least of non aggression;
- monitor our military to be average compared to any of the three who is the strongest;
- lower our profile on the histograph by building workers.

IMVVHO.

	28-01-2003 00:21									#638
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos They decided from the outset that they didn't want to deal with the vagueries of diplomacy and just wanted a good fight... they may get just what they asked for

At this pace, they wont be getting a good fight. When the fight comes, it will be a quick and dirty one, i expect. But thats besides the point

quote: - stop campaigning for the isolation of Gow; since it appears that friendship is out of reach, we will make ordinary business with them;

While I agree GoW issolation will be hard right now, as it is still our word against theirs, and us being the big guy in the south, we have less in common then the three up north.

However

I disagree on "ordinary business" terms with GoW. We must watch them with a very suspicious eye. It is too obvious they plan for war, and I am expecting we have not seen the last of GoW militarymen of this era.

As for what terms we SHOULD take up them business wize, i think we should cut them out of tech deals as much as we can, even if it only profits Lux. Why should we blatantly help one and not the other?

we havent CAUGHT Lux in a lie. we've caught GoW, and we can FINNALY pin them to that, just as they thought they had us when they claimed we backed out of a deal. We can bend GoW over and do what we please with them diplomatically, and free of guilt. Will there be military reprecussions? I think there will be regardless of how we treat them. But as they are already waving a finger at us and calling us the odd one out, we should have no problems doin the same with them.

Isolation? No, but we can certainly give them a hard time.

	28-01-2003 01:15									#639
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by E_T Tech Trading - the possibility for them to steal it. I'm still learning how the diplo screen works in the PBEM, but I beleave that there is the possibility of our tech being stolen from us. If we go and start the tech trade prosess & offer up Writing (or Mysticism) and they go and accept without sending anything back, doesn't that mean that they would get the tech for free, or does it come back to us for final approval??

FYI: This is impossible. Deals only go through if BOTH SIDES hit the "accept" button. I've played enough LAN games now that I know this for certain However, it IS possible that if a civ is dumb enough to hit the accept button for two deals both giving them the same tech, both deals go through whether or not the second civ is actually "giving them" the tech they now already have. So the rule of thumb is only accept a deal for a tech once

	28-01-2003 01:19									#640
	Remove this text

I concur, Ninot.

We need to use the weapon that GoW has so stupidly given us... they also removed any intention we might have had of not using it by their own uncompromising stance. If they want to play hardball, we can play hardball... they suck at it.

	28-01-2003 01:56									#641
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos I concur, Ninot. they suck at it.

I concur, Arnelos.

	28-01-2003 05:34									#642
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Togas I'm getting concerned now with Neu Dem's lack of response to our latest PM about negotiating a border and working out some further agreements regarding settlements. --Togas

Myleague...
If you take my advice, just put these negotiations on a bit of ice, for now. We would gain a lot more territory if we waited to make such a deal until we have the valid argument of "already having a city by the lake up north". Don't you think?



BTW:
I propose we should not worsen our relations to the GoW any further. According to the today ( relatively amusing) chat with Panzer, it is not clarified who are the tech-LIAR.
He says he is not lying, so Lux must be lying to us, or both are. I heard they are both suspected to be notorious liars.
Well, in my clan, lying is punished by death.

Anyway Sire, please do speak to him, cause he wanted audience with the dictatore himself. He can be accomodated in my Hacienda, where he will recieve great Squid meals and constant "protection", meaning suveillance...

Hmm, it could well be that Lux Invicti team who are the most devious lying bastards. They are suspected to be spineless maggots by some noblemen who have heard about them. (not that I have)

	28-01-2003 06:55									#643
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Togas jdjdjd, talk to Lux about their alleged probing of ND and explain to them why attacking ND right now would only help GoW. Let them know that we are worried that GoW might betray both ND and Lux in such a war, and that GoW is the only nation that would gain from it. Also tell them that GoW claims that they traded Lux Horseback Riding and that there is a deal where Lux cannot trade it to us. Please have them verify that this is untrue and let them know that we are loathe to believe it but that Panzer insists that it is true. --Togas

I sent BFM a PM as requested.

We have got to do something about this thread....I had to go back three pages to catch up and weed out Togas's orders. Can we stop overanalyzing every iota of information? Or at least We have got to separate the Ambasador's orders and discussions from the Analysis.

Also...Let everyone think we believe everything they say. Lets not believe a word anyone says. Lets believe that someday the whole North will try to settle our lands.

Finally, are we researching Mapmaking next and can I tell BFM that.

	28-01-2003 07:13									#644
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

IDEA!

GoW says Lux has had Horseback Riding for a while

Lux says it stilll is waiting for it, so they can trade it to us for Writing

BOTH teams want Writing, but only Lux claims it still doesnt have Horseback Riding

SO.........


We tell Lux we will GIFT them Horseback Riding immediately, as we have stumbled upon it as a Goodie Hut, or something like that

if they decline, we then know GoW has always been faithful other than the probing warriors

if they accept, we still get Horseback Riding for GoW and be all happy with them, but prepare for a war with them ASAP.

	28-01-2003 07:28									#645
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Ninot We tell Lux we will GIFT them Horseback Riding immediately, as we have stumbled upon it as a Goodie Hut, or something like that

revision

say our relations with GoW have improved, and we are getting Horseback Riding threw a gift. ask Lux if they want it as a gift. if they say they have it already as a similar gift, who do we trust

i say GoW

	28-01-2003 08:22									#646
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ghengis has told me in private now that Lux has promissed to trade them Mysticism for the Horseback Riding they have already received

and, in Ghengis words, this would happen 10 turns from now.

edit: from logs and all we can manage, no RP members EVER mentioned mysticism around GoW. So this is pretty legit, IMHO.

	28-01-2003 10:19									#647
	Get a bigger avatar today!

This is NOT legit.

Trip has been talking up researching Mysticism next for a while now, after he finished researching Horseback Riding. His plan, in his words, is to go to Monarchy. He'll whore each tech along the way.

ND's plan is to go for Mathematics and then Currency.

GoW needs a tech they can whore around. They'll go for Construction.

GoW is assuming we'll take up the Lit tree, which is likely because in our very brief "fourway" tech alliance talks last month, I suggested this sort of thing to Ghengis, and we have the jump on writing.
Funny thing is, I wrote Ghengis back when he proposed it (and proposed that GoW research mapmaking). I highly doubt anyone else did, but since I actually followed up on it they know that we were "interested" in it and are trying to trick us into thinking that it occured behind our backs to add to our paranoia and defeat in not being their lapdogs.

Let it be known, I wish that we were playing SMAC so that when we finally destroy the last GoW city I can watch GhengisFarb imprisioned in an electric chamber and hear his screams as he is tortured to death.

I stopped reading the chat logs from today's RP-GoW chat because they made me retch. The lies, intimidation, and deception they casually toss out sickens me. Just read through their own contradictory comments and you'll find yourself laughing.

I don't mind if a few of you want to pretend that you buy into it, but if any of you actually start believing it, I will replace you with someone with more of a better bullsh*t detector.

--Togas

	28-01-2003 10:23									#648
	Get a bigger avatar today!

myyyy mistake

what about my "idea" tho?

i was going on the presumption Trip WASNT researching Mysticism. but nothing lost really. if GoW still cant be trusted, then GoW still cant be trusted

im behind ya Togas

	28-01-2003 10:37									#649
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Read here for my two bits on the latest hullaballoo.

	28-01-2003 11:10									#650
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Togas This is NOT legit. Trip has been talking up researching Mysticism next for a while now, after he finished researching Horseback Riding. His plan, in his words, is to go to Monarchy. He'll whore each tech along the way. ND's plan is to go for Mathematics and then Currency. GoW needs a tech they can whore around. They'll go for Construction. GoW is assuming we'll take up the Lit tree, which is likely because in our very brief "fourway" tech alliance talks last month, I suggested this sort of thing to Ghengis, and we have the jump on writing. Funny thing is, I wrote Ghengis back when he proposed it (and proposed that GoW research mapmaking). I highly doubt anyone else did, but since I actually followed up on it they know that we were "interested" in it and are trying to trick us into thinking that it occured behind our backs to add to our paranoia and defeat in not being their lapdogs. Let it be known, I wish that we were playing SMAC so that when we finally destroy the last GoW city I can watch GhengisFarb imprisioned in an electric chamber and hear his screams as he is tortured to death. I stopped reading the chat logs from today's RP-GoW chat because they made me retch. The lies, intimidation, and deception they casually toss out sickens me. Just read through their own contradictory comments and you'll find yourself laughing. I don't mind if a few of you want to pretend that you buy into it, but if any of you actually start believing it, I will replace you with someone with more of a better bullsh*t detector. --Togas

I'll repeat what I just posted in another thread...

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos For what it's worth, I argued a similar perspective in our internal chat. I agree with the others that it's risky to do so, but I have NO PROBLEM with obtaining Horseback Riding from Lux and Mathematics from ND in return for Writing while taking the 100 gold from GoW for it. Then, I have no problem trading around Mysticism and messing up their entire system. Ultimately, we should try to REPLACE Glory of War as the tech middle-man. We should try to end this silly conflict between ND and Lux Invicta and convince them that GoW is the common threat. But hey... I agree that GoW is willing to practically sell us their own firstborn son to make the Writing for Horseback Riding deal... it MIGHT be worth just ripping them off and then working to replace them as tech middle-man ANYWAYS Make no mistake: Glory of War is the enemy. We might be able to potentially get along with them for now, but they remain the enemy.

As I argued in our internal chat, it is entirely possible that BOTH GoW and Lux are lying, but I'm convinced that GoW has to be lying about the Tech Alliance. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now. I so much as told them so (though in slightly veiled terms), which you can see if you read the entire chatlog.

I still believe that it's possible that Lux Invicta is lying to us. Personally, I don't think they have incentive to do so (it's just too stupid in this case... it's too easy to prove them wrong), but the same can be said for Glory of War. It's really stupid to lie to in such a bold manner, but we have to figure that they're really doing it when it comes to the Tech Alliance.

As I said in the chat, I have a very hard time believing that Neu Demogyptica would agree to the things that Glory of War is claiming they agreed to... c'mon... there's no way ND trusts GoW that much!

	28-01-2003 11:14									#651
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: :::GoW_Panzer32 wrote> We need to find out what the Roleplay team wants in return for Writing when you finish it. We are saddened that you are not involved with the tech alliance the other three civs are active in and you are currently the only civ on the continent without Horseback Riding as we traded it to Lux 4 turns ago and to NeuDemo 2 turns ago and both of them declared in a treaty not to trade it to your team.

The important question now is:
Is this a lie, and have we been lied to before without knowing?


And if what panzer wrote is true, why would NeuDemo or Lux not want to trade Riding to us? Or else, why would Panzer need to lie to us?

- Perhaps are NeuDemo or Lux afraid of us, cause we are close to those horses. They probably know we can get very powerful if we play our cards right. And they know we will grab the horses, so they might be nervous and unwilling to give us military-techs...
Panzer has no other obvious reason to lie, than creating confusion, bad blood, and finally setting us up against Lux...

We need to seek the truth, and get evidence of the truth! :doitnow:

	28-01-2003 11:16									#652
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Trip has stated theyve had HR for a short time now

hes stated they did have a trade agreement about HR, not to trade it to us in a certain circumstance.

	28-01-2003 11:48									#653
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And... that means he has been lying to us before?

Or perhaps he didn't have it then? Or was pretending he hadn't got it... Surely he's plotting, but not exacly very well.

	28-01-2003 14:38									#654
	Remove this text

It seems that Gathering Storm is researching Writing and intends to trade it Vox Controli, who might then trade it to Lux Invicta, who we intend to trade Writing.

We should consult with Gathering Storm about us trading Writing to Lux and they trading it to Vox (if possible) at the same time and/or getting sworn agreement from each that they WILL make a deal with each of us (respectively) for Writing, thus minimizing the chance of either Lux or Vox to whore it to the other one and cut Gathering Storm or ourselves out of the deal.

This is risky, as Gathering Storm could just try to screw us over. However, somehow I think Gathering Storm might not do that on their very first real deal with us ... would be a Glory of War level of miscalculation... one I'd count on them being smarter than trying.

Just an idea...

	28-01-2003 22:28									#655
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos We should consult with Gathering Storm about us trading Writing to Lux and they trading it to Vox (if possible) at the same time and/or getting sworn agreement from each that they WILL make a deal with each of us (respectively) for Writing, thus minimizing the chance of either Lux or Vox to whore it to the other one and cut Gathering Storm or ourselves out of the deal.

This needs to be checked into. Jon_Miller said that he planed to get it from Lux, but there are reasons why they would seek a trade with Lux over GS ... the main one being the rivalry between the two.

If GS is researching it, and if they're close to getting it, I would not be opposed to agreeing to releaseing the knowledge at the same time as them to each of our respective continents.

--Togas

	29-01-2003 03:24									#656
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Togas,
Do you have any thoughts on the deals GoW has offered us? They claim they won't have 100 gold in time to make the trade, and seem to want us to take Horseback from them -- doubtlessly trying to screw over lux. Having said that, the deals themselves aren't bad -- the deal with Lux is just Writing for HB, right? It seems like they're offering us a decent deal -- though Dejon is making an interesting suggestion in that Writing is a very valuable tech, it's worth noting that the deal with Lux (if I remember correctly) is actually worse.

Information on the deals:

quote: Originally posted by adaMada Potential Deals GoW's offered us: 1. 20g and HBR now for removal of warriors and writing in 4 turns 2. HBR for removal and writing in 4 turns. 3. HBR now and 60 gold in 4 turns for removal and writing in 4 turns. 4. 35 gold for removal and writing in 4 turns. ** writing in 4 turns means as soon as we get it ** Notes: They've clearly made option four lousy to prevent us from taking it, but I could probably turn around to them and say "We take option three, but don't bother to send us HBR." Even if they know it means we'll be cheating on em, I don't see how they can refuse . More summary information for everyone too busy to read the whole chat will be posted later, but right now, I wanna get the logs up. -- adaMada EDIT: Togas -- After you left it came out that they don't have 100 gold, and they won't have 100 gold for some period of time after we have writing. They offer a variaty of other combinations. They've also gone as far as to state that, if we make the trade with Lux, they MIGHT be able to declare war on us -- in their minds, it's a gray area. They'd def. be able to declare war on Lux, since Lux'd be breaking an agreement we have with them. It's fairly moot, since (in my opinion) they won't declare war on us, even if they feel they can -- a two way war would be bad, and I'm fairly sure everyone in the chat knew it . For all it's worth, Ghengis was there for a while, and he was acting fairly reasonable as well. Will post any other desired information tomorrow, but it's 12 AM my time, and I'm not sure I'm literate anymore .

On an unrelated note: I hate to bring up 'bad' items, but yesterday you announced your intention to replace me if our next meeting did not go well. I understand that, and do not dispute it at all -- if nothing else, fresh blood probably would help our relationship with GoW (assuming we want to have one), and it is undeniably your right to choose who shall represent you. Having said that, there are clearly differing opinions as to weather yesterday's chat was successful or not. I do ask one small thing, however -- if your intentions right now are to replace me, please let me know. If it would please my lord, I'd rather resign with dignity, and I think it'd be best for all involved.

Finally, let me thank everyone who showed up at the GoW chat last night. Your guidance and support was superb, and it’s great to have such a skilled and friendly team to call myself a member of.

-- adaMada

	29-01-2003 03:40									#657
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Obviously it is up to our Lord on whether your head will roll, but in my opinion:

1) Our relationship with GoW will always be stressed due to a) their their game outlook; b) GhengisFarb; and c) Togas. The latter two having great pride.

2) The chat was a success, IMHO. They got their "proof" against Lux. We were offered various trade deals, some of which include techs and them leaving our lands - both of which are good. Both teams got to vent, which is good. We also both demonstrated that the teams can talk.

3) We are all learning to play an all human Civ game. There will be missteps, lessons learned, and oversights - that is how you gain wisdom.

	29-01-2003 03:56									#658
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Potential Deals GoW's offered us: 1. 20g and HBR now for removal of warriors and writing in 4 turns 2. HBR for removal and writing in 4 turns. 3. HBR now and 60 gold in 4 turns for removal and writing in 4 turns. 4. 35 gold for removal and writing in 4 turns.

These are excellent results.

I want to smooth over things with Lux Invicta, and I think we'll take option #3.

After Trip told me last night that They agreed that they wouldn't trade us HBR if GoW had a deal with us, I think we have a win-win situation.

We trade with GoW, which makes them happy. They give us tech AND cash. They leave our country without ever seeing the Promised Land (only viewing mountains and deserts). We help Lux save face with GoW and sell them Writing at a reasonable price.

I have no intention of replacing adaMada. He weathered a very difficult diplomatic storm and came out in the end with a result that is very favorable to Spain.

Only thing: add a "no trade writing for X turns" clause. Let's start by saying 20 turns and if they disagree, 10 is our minimum.

--Togas

p.s. I will copy these instructions into the new thread created for Diplomacy orders.

	29-01-2003 04:15									#659
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Good work adaMada...
But if we pick #3 now, will they not try to counter it and make things more complicated? (As in typical Arabic bargaining traditions)

I recall from the chat that Panzer requested us to counter their first offer about RemovalofWarrior.
But since our failure to respond quickly, he threw in Riding... Ok, and now these options came.


When we respond to it, they might have to think about it once more and discuss it in their forum. Then, they might agree its not a fair deal anyway...
It's just something Panzer came up with during the chat.
Hmm, does he have a mandate to make any deals he wishes to?



BTW: A popular phrase:
- Don't sell the fur berfore the bear is shot

	29-01-2003 09:12									#660
	Suffering from ads?

Togas,
PMmed Panzer asking for a no-trade clause -- shouldn't be any trouble to get one. I started with an 'asking' price of 30 turns (based on the information in the offical thread, which set a high of 40) -- if they'll give it to us, all the better (we can always relieve them of it should we desire to for any reason), and if they won't, we can perhaps still get a bit more than twenty. As soon as I get information from Panzer on their, I'll post in the 'official' diplomatic thread for recordkeeping purposes -- it'll be good to have all official correspondence in one place.

If they accept the no trade clause on Writing, should I go ahead and agree to Option #3 -- get their warrior moving ASAP ? Also, do we have any objection to not trading Horseback if they ask for it? I can't think of any, considering everyone else around us has it, and I doubt we'll make contact with someone new to our continent within the next thirty turns...

ThePlagueRat,
I think Ghengis agreed to the trade deal. Panzer has much more power over there than our ambassadors do over here -- he's in charge of all diplomacy until UnOrthO gets back -- and Ghengis is one of the primary leaders of their team. He may have to return to his team for final confirmation, but I'd be supprised if that's truely a barrier for him.

-- adaMada