06-12-2002 02:00									#31
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Edan learning the difference from edit and quote.

	06-12-2002 02:01									#32
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Hey Paiktis you are a hypocrite. Start posting threads on murdered Israeli civilians and call it terrorism too.

I find this act horrendous and should be investigated. Also charges should be pressed against the soldiers if any findings warrents doing so. Nonetheless, Israel has a right to defend itself against Palestinian terrorists (they are not freedom fighters, rather just as bad as Al Qaeda).

	06-12-2002 02:02									#33
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You sound so proffessional Edan. Are you a proffessional assassin?

I'll beback with what children I talk about. Count on it.



An Israeli soldier shows the finger to Palestinian shoppers braving the curfew in the divided West Bank town of Hebron 01 December 2002. At least three people, including two children, were seriously wounded when an Israeli Apache combat helicopter fired two missiles on a car east of Gaza City, Palestinian medical sources

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	06-12-2002 02:09									#34
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That's one of them.

I guess he managed to hide his gun before he was shot dead.




Palestinian children kiss and give the two-year-old Palestinian baby Nafez Meshal a last farewell during his funeral in Rafah refugee camp in southern Gaza Strip, November 12, 2002.

Meshal was shot dead in his father's arms outside their house in what witnesses said was unprovoked gunfire from a nearby Israel army watching tower. Israeli army said soldiers responded after they were shot at.

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	06-12-2002 02:11									#35
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Hey Paiktis, should I find pictures of dead Israeli civilians that killed by terrorists? How the hell would you feel if terrorists went inside cafes and blew themselves up?

If I were you I just be quiet right now.

You bias certainly overshadows the reality.

	06-12-2002 02:13									#36
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One good photo troll deserves another.

Tell me, how old is the Israeli "soldier" on the bed, the victim of a random bombing?

	06-12-2002 02:17									#37
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Can this nonsense be stopped?

I mean the thread and the violence both, of course.

	06-12-2002 02:21									#38
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Jesus Christ not the sister of mercy coming to "make a stand".

(you boris)

	06-12-2002 02:29									#39
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Here's one to warm the cockles of the heart, entilted Israeli terror victims.



Here some more Paiktis, you'll like these:









Who are they?

Why, they were murdered in their own land by vicious thugs who claim they are freedom fighters, in this case, from the Hebrew University Bombing.

	06-12-2002 02:31									#40
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Nothing like a little photo trolling, is their my good comrade?

	06-12-2002 02:38									#41
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Trolling or not, tell me that you get a chance to see palestinian victims of terror as often as Israeli ones...

The myth of discriminative and selective fire of IDF does not hold water.

It's terror by both sides. Onces have F16s and tanks the others have terrorism in its simpler form.

	06-12-2002 02:39									#42
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quote: Why, they were murdered in their own land by vicious thugs who claim they are freedom fighters, in this case, from the Hebrew University Bombing.

Wrong! They were killed during their occupation of another people's country!

	06-12-2002 02:42									#43
	Inflate your Upload Space

Not this again...

Would it be okay for the aboriginals in Canada to strap bombs to their chest and blow up urban centers in Canada? After all, we are occupying their country, are we not?

Would it be okay for the British to strap bombs to their chest and blow up urban centers in the US because they're living on what was claimed to be British land?

Or how about Mexico and Texas?

Russia and Alaska?

Land ownership isn't a one-shot thing -- get over it. It changes hands over time.

	06-12-2002 02:46									#44
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quote: Would it be okay for the aboriginals in Canada to strap bombs to their chest and blow up urban centers in Canada? After all, we are occupying their country, are we not?

If they wanted independence they should get it without having to use violence, but if needed...

quote: Would it be okay for the British to strap bombs to their chest and blow up urban centers in the US because they're living on what was claimed to be British land?

The Brits aren't the rightfull owners to the land

	06-12-2002 02:47									#45
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Right, the natives are.

Down with migration!

People can only live where they are born. Right?

	06-12-2002 02:51									#46
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Trolling or not, tell me that you get a chance to see palestinian victims of terror as often as Israeli ones...

A quick goggle serach will show you see the Pals at a rate of ten to one in favor.

quote: The myth of discriminative and selective fire of IDF does not hold water.

Always a good reason to break into a house and gun down a mother and two toddlers.

quote: It's terror by both sides. Onces have F16s and tanks the others have terrorism in its simpler form.

Interesting it took you this long to say something along these lines.

If you think it's both, then show the victims of both sides, I know what you really think, but you have an adverse effect on some of the simpler nordic types.

	06-12-2002 02:52									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Viking Berserk If they wanted independence they should get it without having to use violence, but if needed...

The Palestinian Leadership had an opportunity to get it's independance. It chose violence, instead, because their leader is a cowardly SOB who doesn't know anything but terrorism and is unwilling to change his stripes.

And how strapping on bombs and killing civilians helps you achieve independence.... well, it hasn't worked for thePalestinians so far, has it? In fact, it's made their goal (if it is in fact independence and not the destruction of Israel) much farther away. Even some in the Palestinian Authority are beginning to question their tactics.

	06-12-2002 02:54									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Would it be okay for the aboriginals in Canada to strap bombs to their chest and blow up urban centers in Canada? After all, we are occupying their country, are we not?

Would it be any better if they drove tanks though
and launched air strikes against the urban centres?
Eithier way is thuggery. As slow as it is, going though
the courts/UN is the only long term peaceful solution.

	06-12-2002 02:56									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Would it be any better if they drove tanks though and launched air strikes against the urban centres?

The difference being, Israel is doing that because they're trying to stop Hamas from doing their bombing.

Israel didn't wake up randomly some day and decide to start launching air strikes against urban centres. And the majority of the time, they're attacking Hamas or other terrorists. Sometimes there's civilian casualties, it's just how it goes.

The Palestinians are almost exclusively targetting innocent civilians.

quote: Eithier way is thuggery. As slow as it is, going though the courts/UN is the only long term peaceful solution.

The UN is what got us into this mess.

	06-12-2002 02:57									#50
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This thread surely deserves liquidation.

	06-12-2002 02:58									#51
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quote: The difference being, Israel is doing that because they're trying to stop Hamas from doing their bombing.

Or rather trying to show Palestinians that get 'uppity' who is boss.

	06-12-2002 03:01									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Would it be any better if they drove tanks though and launched air strikes against the urban centres?

If they weren't targeting civilians? Yes, much. If Israel was using the "Kill as many people as you can" tactics of the Palestinian terrorists, the Palestinian people would have ceased existing in a very short period of time.

quote: Eithier way is thuggery. As slow as it is, going though the courts/UN is the only long term peaceful solution.

You mean like going through the peace process of Oslo, where the terrorism increased during the eight years of that process compared to the eight years before Oslo, and then was followed by a 2+ year intifada all because the Palestinian leadership couldn't follow through on the commitments they had made? Yes, that sure was a peaceful result.

	06-12-2002 03:02									#53
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Hey, paiktis. You are Greek, are you not? Why don't you strap on some explosives and visit the illegally occuppied Constantinople and teach those zionistic Turks a lesson?

	06-12-2002 03:38									#54
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Not taking any sides in this one, but someone said rock is deadly, and if nothing else can be done to stop it, then shooting is ok.
I strongly disagree. A rock can kill, but it's very unlikely to happen. If someone throws a rock at me when I'm guarding something, I try other means, but if they don't work.. I just won't shoot them for christ sake.
Besides, there are tons of ways to stop it. If they are not availabe in that moment, then call for them and dodge the rocks. I don't want to shoot someone because he was throwing rocks at me (even big ones, and good throws) and live with that for the rest of my life.

But as I said, this is not about this case or other cases in ME, just principal I'd have.

Besides, the rocks can't be very big, since they the guy who throws it has to be near.. so relatively small. You have your helmet and gear, so you getting killed is like winning in lottery. It can be dangerous if there are many people throwing the rocks, but then you can shoot in the air and order to stop. If they don't stop but continue even more, you can do it again. Call for re-inforcement. Try water cannon. Charge in with batons and arrest the main aggressors. What ever, but shooting in that situation shows cowardness in a big way.
If the crowd is very hostile and you have only few men and they charge with rocks and stuff, well I guess that's when you pull back for planning and taking the post back, and arresting these attackers. If the attackers have guns, even knives when they attack, then shoot.
Everything can be considered deadly weapon, situation more dangerous than it really is. Keeping the cool in situation like that is what makes some soldiers better than the other ones, who can maybe think about doing something less stressfull, like typing.

	06-12-2002 05:20									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Not taking any sides in this one, but someone said rock is deadly, and if nothing else can be done to stop it, then shooting is ok. I strongly disagree. A rock can kill, but it's very unlikely to happen. If someone throws a rock at me when I'm guarding something, I try other means, but if they don't work.. I just won't shoot them for christ sake.

So if the you've exausted every other option (and I did state that every other option should be tried first) what do you do? Wait around until you get hit and injured or killed?

	06-12-2002 05:37									#56
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There is always option that works in that kind of situation other than shooting to kill.
Call backup if needed, to brake the groups and arrest them. While waiting for backups to arrive, dodge and try not to get hurt. Yes. I would risk injury over shooting someone that doesn't even have a decent weapon, or really chance to kill. Situation there is hot, and you never know, there might be other weapons too coming. Also it's war, so you don't know.. so that's why I didn't want to compare this to any situation there has been in ME.

But I think there's always something to do before shooting, especially in a situation like that, which is not highly deadly. I just can't see rocks so deadly.. I do agree with you, that if situation is very dangerous, and there's no other option, then shooting is the way. I just disagree this situation being that dangerous, though it might lead to injury (and maybe in worst case scenarios to someones death).

	06-12-2002 05:38									#57
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Hey, Paiktis, there is a current story running on CNN that says some unknown terrorist group is planning a terrorist attack in SE Turkey.

Do you know anything about this?

	06-12-2002 05:41									#58
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Jesus Christ.

Stupid yankees.

	06-12-2002 05:42									#59
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But ok since you mentioned there is absolutely nothing to do, no help, no nothing. If I was in charge in that post, I'd order men to leave the post, back up, take everything they can with them. First call in for orders, if there's nothing helpful, then take the risk of not obeying orders. I would see any orders ordering to shoot in to crowds etc illegal, if there's only rocks flying. Pull back, and wait for new orders to take the post back with maybe tear gas, rubber bullets.. what ever. Or just with re-inforcements.

	06-12-2002 05:43									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Hey, Paiktis, there is a current story running on CNN that says some unknown terrorist group is planning a terrorist attack in SE Turkey.

Greece only supports the PKK.