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Edan
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
paiktis, sounds pretty good.. I don't know if it works good, but it's a good start. |
I remember seeing on the news about a school in Israel next to the West Bank where both Israeli and Palestinian kids learn together. Unfortunatly, it can only accomidate a few kids, and even if it could handle all the kids (and assuming that all the parents would want to send their kids there), it's only a (very) long term solution for a problem that has both long term and short term consequences.
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Ozz
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Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Edan
If they weren't targeting civilians? Yes, much.
You mean like going through the peace process of Oslo, where the terrorism increased during the eight years of that process compared to the eight years before Oslo, and then was followed by a 2+ year intifada all because the Palestinian leadership couldn't follow through on the commitments they had made? Yes, that sure was a peaceful result.  |
Ok, fight it out in your town, not possible to fight in
urban area without "colatteral damage".
Yes, what you have now is much better.
How many times did the us and russia meet, or the us and china or anybody vs anybody, it never works the first time (or the second,third) until both sides agree
and follow up in good faith.
In this case BOTH sides are in bad faith, (Israel-settlers, not surpressing terrorist cells by PLO)
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Edan
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quote:
In this case BOTH sides are in bad faith, (Israel-settlers, not surpressing terrorist cells by PLO) |
Barak put a halt on settlement growth under his term as PM. Israel also put a lot more at risk when they initiated the peace process than the Palestinians did by agreeing to the talks.
Last edited by Edan on 06-12-2002 at 09:04
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Bereta_Eder
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The programs runs in Greece for many years too. And believe me the two sides are much more willing to be coming here than in a place such as the US. (or Great Satan amongst the most enlightened Arabs)
Artiriosclerotic commie relic.
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Ozz
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Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Edan
Barak put a halt on settlement growth under his term as PM. Israel also put a lot more at risk when they initiated the peace process than the Palestinians did by agreeing to the talks. |
The settlements are still there, they never should have been there. They are still occupied. Bad Faith, on both sides.
Did It? What, Israel going to risk losing respect by
talking? Neithier side has any of that to lose, so it's
a no risk sitution.
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Ozz
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Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
Israeli Terrorism? Since when? |
Since The Stern gang and the King David Hotel.
One of Israeli's PMs was a terrorist (Began)
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Edan
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozz
Since The Stern gang and the King David Hotel.
One of Israeli's PMs was a terrorist (Began) |
True, they relied on terrorist tactics. They also were targeting military targets (the KDH was the military command of the british at the time) and phoned in a warning before the bombing. Of course, it was still a wrong tactic to use.
Israeli terrorism was limited to between the late 30s and the late 40s (escalating after WW2). And those groups that were using those tactics were often isolated from the more mainstream of the population.
OTOH, the Arabs in the region had started to promote the use of suicide terrorism since around 1919, iirc.
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Edan
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Who's leaders went on to become top Israeli politicians. |
Who became PM 30 years after he had used terrorism - and then went on to forge peace with Egypt. And Begin was the one who wanted to avoid casualties and was the one who insisted on the telephone warnings before the KDH bombing.
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Ozz
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Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Edan
True, they relied on terrorist tactics. They also were targeting military targets (the KDH was the military command of the british at the time) and phoned in a warning before the bombing. Of course, it was still a wrong tactic to use.
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The Stern gang had no casus belli for bombing any target. They were just a bunch of terrorist thugs on the fast track to the top leadership of the new Israeli state.
It's the age old ME tale of murder and assassination being the stepping stones to the crown.
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DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:24
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I wasn't sepecifically think of Begin at the time. Yitzhak Shamir and Israel Eldad were the main names that came to mind for me. The very fact that they and others commanders of terrorist organizations rose to such heights belies both the fact that they were isolated from mainstream society and that thier acts were generally condemned.
Last edited by DinoDoc on 07-12-2002 at 01:11
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Ozz
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Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Edan
phoned in a warning before the bombing.
tactics were often isolated from the more mainstream of the population.
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Not everyone agrees whether the calls occured, Only
the Irgun agrees. (ie the terrorists' tale of events)
Seems pretty unlikely considering the facts.
"Members of the Royal Engineers were hurried to the scene with heavy lifting equipment, but they had difficulty reaching the King David Hotel because of Jewish road blocks. The Royal Engineers were stoned and booed as they tried to make their way to the scene of the bombing."
Seems a pretty mainstreet effort to me.
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/P...e/Kingdavid.htm
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Edan
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I wasn't sepecifically think of Begin at the time. Yitzhak Shamir and Israel Eldad were the main names that came to mind for me.
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Again, Shamir didn't come PM until 35 or 40 years afterwards.
quote:
The very fact that they and others commanders of terrorist organizations belies both the fact that they were isolated from mainstream society and that thier acts were generally condemned. |
Nonsense, a number of Jewish leaders denounced the King David Hotel Bombing, and the Hagganah distance themselves from the Irgun as a result of it. And, indeed, an Irgun weapons ship was sunk by the Hagganah under Ben Gurions orders because of Irguns militancy and extremism, and refusal to join in a national army where such things could be reigned in.
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Edan
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozz
The Stern gang had no casus belli for bombing any target.
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So the massacres of the 20s and 30s (that the british were there to prevent weren't reason to arm themselves?) And IIRC, some members of the Irgun had been hanged by the British when they had been promised to be released which was what had initiated the action. Doesn't make ithe action right, but doesn't mean it was done without reason.
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06-12-2002 06:23
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Right, Israel had nothing to lose by bring in a terrorist who had been spending 35+ years trying to wipe Israel out of existance and giving him control of the terroritories so that he could build up an infrastructure to attack Israel from inside. There was more terrorism in the 8 years of the peace process than there was before it, and that doesn't include the last 2 years of violence.
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