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Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:24
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Ignoring the millionth Israel-Palestine debate:
quote:
Population growth generally leads to economic growth, considering that population growth leads to labor growth. The basic output equation has two components: labor and capital. An increase in the labor input will lead to more economic growth. |
A high birth rate means that families, in general, have less resources (food, education, and so forth) to spend per child. In other words, new generations won't be any better off than previous ones. This is why, for instance, poverty among blacks and hispanics in the US is so prevalent and the situation isn't changing very rapidly.
Economic growth is pretty much irrelevent if it doesn't match increases in population. It takes time for labor and capital to equilibrate; time in which, the population increases. Add to that, restrictions on immigration and trade between countries to varying extents mean disparities grow.
Err... actually I can't resist this one: 
quote:
Before the Intifada, it is the PA who were maintaining the government policies for nearly all the Palestinians for a number of years, and even then, it wasn't until April that Israel started it's massive incursions. |
The PA wasn't responsible for maintaining Isreali trade barriers on Palestinians, restrictions on economic development (denial of permits and whatnot), distributing insufficient water resources (acquired from Palestinian areas) to Palestinians, restrictions on travel, and so forth.
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Edan
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
Could I also ask you if you are jewish?
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......
quote:
You already did. Thank you.
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Would it have made any difference what if I replied? You came up with your conclusion before you asked your question.
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:24
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The Gaza Strip is the most crowded and poorest hell-hole on the planet, even before the Intifada. And it was a Palestinian controled autonomy until 2000. They can continue breeding like mad if that's what they want, they should be concerned about their own future, not me.
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gsmoove23
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Yeah, new textbooks created were for grades 2 and 6 and introduced in September 2000. 3 and 7 were supposed to be introduced in 2001 but I believe funding was cut because of the uproar created by the biased CMIP report. If you want to see a response...
http://www.ipsjps.org/jps/121/moughrabi.html or
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article501.shtml
or an interesting look at Israeli education...
http://www.washington-report.org/ba...99/9909019.html
...but the idea that education is the root of the problem is ludicrous unless your speaking of the education palestinian children are getting 24/7 in the territories.
Some of the complaints in that report are funny though. They seem to be upset by the use of arabic names for Israeli towns, which in fact are replacing arabic towns. Judea and Samaria? They complain about depictions of pre-1948 Palestine? How about "the IDF web site's use, as well as daily Israeli newspapers, of maps displaying Eretz Israel, depicting the West Bank and Gaza as Israeli."(taken from http://electronicintifada.net/featu...10709zogby.html)
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gsmoove23
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It seems to me the whole birth rate issue in Israel is just sour grapes. Isreal has been pushing its citizens to go forth and produce for 50 years to no avail. Well, there's always immigration.
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Bereta_Eder
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I'm always unwilling to give explanations for things that are self-explanatory.
I'm not willing to waste time on ignorant lollypops. If faced with them I just troll. And I troll 90% of the time.
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St Leo
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Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:24
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The more people you have, the greater demand becomes for food. More people are likely to invest in cultivation where there is a decent return, so with increasing demand, profit will be made though use of marginal lands, or increasing the intensity of agriculture, that would not otherwise have been profitable.
There is a finite amount of marginal lands. Europe is just taking the rational way out of the Malthusian problem.
Another function of increased population will be increased population density. So long as the population density can be supported by city infrastructure, the more people you cluster will increase the productivity of each individual person, as well as allowing greater specialisation. This increase in productivity not only meets the demand from greater production, but exceeds demand, allowing products to be exported.
This is why US will collapse sooner rather than later. By permitting the tax-destroying and infrastructure-multiplying abomination that is suburbia, it is pounding nails into its own coffin.
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Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:24
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quote:
Your argument assumes that labour will always remain ahead of capital, producing unemployment etc.
I argue the opposite- that labour and capital will equilibrate at a higher rate of exchange than was happening earlier, due to the increase in both labour and capital. |
I'd like to see some statistics on that. For instance, Haiti's (most dense country in the Western hemisphere) population has been steadily increasing this past decade, while its GNP/capita has been decreasing. Same thing with Bangladesh (most dense country in the world), although the trend is not as great. Also, keep in mind that it's likely the people who have less children (richer people) are those who attract foreign capital which is what much of the growth is due to.
Of course, I'd basically agree if trade and immigration were perfectly free between states. But they are not. On the whole, trade barriers keep capital out of, and immigration barriers keep labor in, developing states that are exploding in population.
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Population decline is not a nice thing for economies. |
Not necessarily. It depends entirely on the situation. The Bubonic Plague of the 14th century, for instance, ended up becoming huge boon to European economies. I'd like to also add that decreased population means greater bargaining power for the working class, and growth of a middle class.
Of course it's true that population decline isn't particularly good in the Europe, Japan, etc.
quote:
You're wrong. Lefty's wrong. Ramo's wrong. Just goes to show you that it's not the things that you know that hurts you. Rather, it's the things that you know that just aren't so. |
Care to justify that? 
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:24
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Individuals have made a deciion to have many children: if there ever was a fundamental right its the one to procreate; it is aftre all, our basic biological imperative. If Israel is so worried about High Palestinian biorth rates, let them make a convincing argument to the Palestinian people about it.
I find the "Arafat" hang-up amazing. It is really incredible, how such an Uberman as him (and he must be an Uberman, just look at all he does, every day, directing dozens of terrorist organizations, masterminding evry dime of money, bet you he cloned Osama bin Laden from himself those many years back and programmed him as well! He must have learned well from his great dark lord, Adolf Sidious) has not yet won. I mean, he says, and the Palestinian people do, since we all know Palestinians are weak minded fools, unaccustomed to disagreeing with their leaders, waiting on their every word to do their bidding for them. Such a weak and mindless people (just look how they breed) could never have a mind of its own, a will of its own. I mean, 3 million Palestinians in the territories and 3 million more outside just hang on each of Arafat's words: they have a tiny chip implanted at birth that is! Yes, that it! Palestinians were enrapture with how the peace with israelk was going: how their lives were getting better: how the restrictions on thoer movement, or land ownership, or the use of their own property were falling by the wayside when BAM, Arafat said: attack, and they did!
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06-12-2002 09:15
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