08-12-2002 05:17									#1
	Which direction should we send our warrior? Tired of ads?

We should have our warrior ready soon, and Vondrack asked me to post a poll about what we should do with him.

Please check the "Chronicles of Legoland" thread for a map of our city to assist you making this vote.

You can vote a direction just for this turn or as a short-term direction vote.

In the discussion thread for the Chronicles of Legoland, I suggested that the warrior should head one of north, south, east or west for 2 turns at least because in 6 turns our cultural borders will expand revealing the shroud 2 spaces from our city in every direction except north, south, east and west.

I am voting for East (6) for this turn at least as that is our most vulnerable direction (no hills, mountains or jungle) and the most promising for revealing more grassland squares. It also moves us toward that mountain to reveal a larger area.

PLEASE VOTE IN THIS POLL AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AS OUR WARRIOR WILL BE READY IN ABOUT 1 TURN !

Last edited by Sharpe on 08-12-2002 at 05:40

	09-12-2002 04:09									#2
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East.

	09-12-2002 05:42									#3
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Voted East.

Slightly off-topic: Such polls will soon require the save game (or at least a screenshot) to form an opinion. Where can I find it?

I can't seem to attach anything to my posts. Is this a known problem?

	09-12-2002 05:55									#4
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quote: Originally posted by delmar Slightly off-topic: Such polls will soon require the save game (or at least a screenshot) to form an opinion. Where can I find it?

Look in Vondrack's excellent Chronicle of Legoland thread.

quote: I can't seem to attach anything to my posts. Is this a known problem?

Yep. MarkG (the admin most involved in the demogame) is trying to fix it, but he's very busy. Until then, members will have to link from webspace they have themselves.

	09-12-2002 05:57									#5
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quote: Slightly off-topic: Such polls will soon require the save game (or at least a screenshot) to form an opinion. Where can I find it?

The Chronicles of Legoland has a lot of screenshots and info. Currently it is updated to 3850 (2 turns ago). Vondrack has been busy, but I guess that it will be updated when he has the time.

quote: I can't seem to attach anything to my posts. Is this a known problem?

Yep, well known unfortunately. MarkG is working on it last I heard, but he has been busy in RL recently (plus he has been helping us with that cheating contraversy). If my info is out-of-date, can someone update us about this?

Edit: LOL, Kloreep and I were posting the same answers at the same time. Well, great minds must think alike, eh Kloreep?

	09-12-2002 11:10									#6
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Hmm... I can't vote in polls currently... is this a widespread problem, or just me?

	09-12-2002 11:11									#7
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But for the record, I say "East"

	09-12-2002 11:49									#8
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We've lost a turn of exploration by fortifying the warrior this turn; let's get him out exploring quick!

	09-12-2002 14:11									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep We've lost a turn of exploration by fortifying the warrior this turn; let's get him out exploring quick!

Jack, for God's sake, why did you NOT move the warrior?!?! Even though this poll was not binding yet, it was pretty obvious that we want to go eastwards (6 people for going east, 1 for NE). And exactly because the poll was not binding, you were FREE to do whatever you wanted to. Do you want me to believe that fortifying the warrior was your long-dreamt dream?

Why did you do that?

Not having precise orders from the team does not mean you are supposed to do NOTHING. Not having precise orders means you are free to do whatever you consider best for us!

	09-12-2002 20:17									#10
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Even though this poll was not binding yet

Since the bashing has been taken care of , allow me a theoretical question: what does it mean that "this poll was not binding yet"? I read our constitution, and it says the following:

"any poll that is declared valid is binding for the President
[..]
A poll is declared valid if opened for at least [TBA] period or if at least [TBA] percent of the Senate voted in it."

First of all, until we have a better value than [TBA], I would hope that the President assumes some really low value for it. Just to be safe.

Second, if we don't have a binding vote yet, then maybe we shouldn't send the save game to the next team in such a hurry. Before you start to complain about the 24 hour rule: the total elapsed time between 3850BC and 3700BC is less than 48 hours (side note: would be cool if the time stamps were given in the same time zone in every post in the "Who is going to play..." thread).

	09-12-2002 20:19									#11
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Well, now that we have something else to do than clicking the end turn button, it is a good idea to slow down the rate at which we play. I suggest Jack or Vondrack read all new messages since their last visit before playing the turn.
If there are too many messages, they should at least read all polls and ministers' posts. My guess is that Jack didn't move the warrior simply because he wasn't aware of this poll, and fortified the 1st warrior like he's used to.
I told Restar1 through PM that he has a warrior to give orders to, and I suggested him to create an official military architect thread.

As soon as I have PtW, I'll be making one official thread for the Englightened's orders. I expect our foreign minister and master builder to do the same. Even if these threads repeat what has been decided in other threads or polls, at least they compile every info so that the Prez / VP knows where to find it.

	09-12-2002 20:30									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Well, now that we have something else to do than clicking the end turn button

At the risk of sounding rude, I would like to remind my fellow citizens that this game is not about pushing buttons. It is about making decisions. Even if the only thing you have to do is press enter in order to finish this turn, we might need some time to make decisions for the upcoming turns. I hope that whoever has access to that button will consider this in the future...

quote: I told Restar1 through PM that he has a warrior to give orders to, and I suggested him to create an official military architect thread. As soon as I have PtW, I'll be making one official thread for the Englightened's orders.

This is a must. And I don't understand why you want to wait until you have PtW. If you think that you can't post reasonable things without PtW, then you shouldn't be the Enlightened, khm, , you should appoint a deputy for the time being who can. (love this strike through feature! )

quote: Even if these threads repeat what has been decided in other threads or polls, at least they compile every info so that the Prez / VP knows where to find it.

And for everybody else! I hope by now everyone realized that "it is somewhere on the forum" is not very useful for a reference.

PS: Did you know that I can edit your posts?

	09-12-2002 21:19									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Well, now that we have something else to do than clicking the end turn button, it is a good idea to slow down the rate at which we play. I suggest Jack or Vondrack read all new messages since their last visit before playing the turn.

Spiffor, I do read every single post that appears on our forum, usually within minutes after its posted. Alas, I was not the one playing the turn. I am really curious what was Jack's reason to fortify. I do not believe that it would be his common strategy... even on Emperor, the first warrior may be used to explore, may it not? (I play Monarch)

quote: Originally posted by delmar At the risk of sounding rude, I would like to remind my fellow citizens that this game is not about pushing buttons. It is about making decisions.

delmar, stop it!

quote: Originally posted by delmar And for everybody else! I hope by now everyone realized that "it is somewhere on the forum" is not very useful for a reference.

Oh, thank you. Do you really think we are that disorganized or dumb? There already is a service thread that Ministers are supposed to post their orders in. There already is another service thread supposed to contain a brief summary of what the President or VP is supposed to play. The problem is that decisions were not made and thus not posted in these threads. Jack thus decided on his own in a rather unexpected way (yes, I do find his decision unfortunate, but that is a different matter). I do not believe it would be because he did not have information enough.

But let's wait until he explains what lead him to fortify.

At the risk of sounding rude, I would like to remind you, delmar, of the fact that our members are intelligent people and there is no need to treat them the way you do (yes, I do find some of your posts rather difficult to swallow). What you often perceive as a lack of strategy, system, or organization, is mostly caused by the lack of time. If you think there is something missing, feel free to fill the gap. Say: 'there is such and such thing missing, would you mind if I set it up for the team'? Chances are that it has already been done, but it's just buried somewhere in older threads (we are unfortunately not able to "top" the most important threads yet...). If it is really something we need and others say so (or do not oppose your proposal), you are free to do it. That's exactly how most of the existing service threads were created.

Thank you for listening.

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor PS: Did you know that I can edit your posts?

Yes, it's a known bug.

	10-12-2002 13:25									#14
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack If you think there is something missing, feel free to fill the gap. Say: 'there is such and such thing missing, would you mind if I set it up for the team'?

I think that there are certain things that should be set up by certain people. For example the Ministerial Threads, that were specifically the issue here, should be set up by the Ministers. That's about the only thing I was missing so far. If I feel that I need to set up something, I will not hasitate to do it.

As for the rest of your post, I am sorry that I made you upset. I will try to be more careful in the future, but as I didn't intend to hurt you, I can't promise that I won't do it in the future. I realize the difference between thinking differently and being dumb, I can tell you that much. If you think that I am wrong and you don't have the patience to argue with me, then maybe you should just ignore what I am saying.

	10-12-2002 15:36									#15
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quote: Originally posted by delmar As for the rest of your post, I am sorry that I made you upset. I will try to be more careful in the future, but as I didn't intend to hurt you, I can't promise that I won't do it in the future. I realize the difference between thinking differently and being dumb, I can tell you that much. If you think that I am wrong and you don't have the patience to argue with me, then maybe you should just ignore what I am saying.

delmar, it is not a matter of not making me upset, hurt, or whatever. It's not a matter of promising you would be more careful. I am a big boy and I can bear whatever you (or anyone else, for that matter - see my numerous posts in the General and PtW forums) come up with. But anytime I find someone else behaving strongly not to my liking, I will say so. I never pretend I am okay with something, when in fact I am not.

That said, I guess we should make peace. I do not have time, nor desire to continue flamewars. I do realize that you may be a very valuable asset to our team, as you apparently have a lot to say, which we should listen to (even if not agree to). Just keep in mind, please, that you are talking to people that are about of the same intelligence level and perhaps player skills as you are. Also, try reading what people mean, instead of what they write (or do you really think Spiffor meant we were playing the game just to enjoy some fine mouseclicking?). Even if this suggestion may sound absurd to you (taken wordly), it is just a call for common sense. Picking up on not-exactly-precise-to-a-word formulations is just wasting everyone's time (yours included).

I hope we can now agree on that the team is properly set-up as far as the organization is concerned. We do have all the threads we need to conduct our everyday agenda, we do have threads to keep members informed, and we do have rules to stick to. Let's get to work.

	10-12-2002 17:44									#16
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C'mon lads lets calm it down and keep it simple. We all want the same thing at this stage, we all want to explore and see the best way to expand. In the meantime lets discuss what we may do in the future without getting pedantic and bogged down in crap.

	10-12-2002 21:28									#17
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I am happy with and agreed to almost everything you said (and I also read and understood Tiberius' suggestion about presenting the ideas in a more lucrative way), but I have to comment on this part:

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Even if this suggestion may sound absurd to you (taken wordly), it is just a call for common sense. Picking up on not-exactly-precise-to-a-word formulations is just wasting everyone's time (yours included).

When I work, I often interact with people through email, which is very similar to what is happening hear. Based on this experience, it is very difficult for me to sign up for this "don't ask for precise wording, common sense will tell you what they mean" approach. I find it surprising how many different "common senses" there are. When someone says things like "this is obvious" or "this is the only way", that is a red flag to me, because that means that that person made some implied assumptions that he didn't care to share (because he thought everyone must think the same).

I hope that this gives some background and explanation about why I am "nitpicking" on things and voice assumptions about your (or anybody's) posts that you think should be clear you didn't mean if I only used "common sense". I clearly went overboard in this regard, and the lesson that I learnd so far is that this is not a major concern to people here, and therefore perhaps it shouldn't be to me either.

	23-12-2002 03:43									#18
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)C'mon people, we gotta go south across the Jungle, there might be a civ. there based on what I've sean in the demographics (some thing about the disease rate? )