13-12-2002 15:42									#1
	Day of infamy - Nanjing Massacre 65th anniversary Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

65 years ago, on December 13th, the animal-like IJA began systematically murdering and raping the people of the city of Nanjing on a large scale. In 6 weeks, at least 300,000 were killed.

Damn the Japanese right wing and their revisionist history. It is especially ironic when they wipe for those killed by the atomic bombs.

	13-12-2002 15:48									#2
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The comparison to animals is inappropriate, though.

I've yet to hear of any animal (other than humans) that wantonly vicious.

John Rabe, rest in peace.

	13-12-2002 15:53									#3
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Humans are evil by nature. If we would start looking, we could find something-awful-done-by-humans for every day of the year.

	13-12-2002 15:54									#4
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John Rabe, Good Man of Nanjing

	13-12-2002 16:08									#5
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The comparison to animals is inappropriate, though. I've yet to hear of any animal (other than humans) that wantonly vicious.

Slightly OT, but chimps do it too. Must be something about our line...

	13-12-2002 16:26									#6
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Chimps at least have a basis for their hatred of monkeys.

	13-12-2002 16:34									#7
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Chimps at least have a basis for their hatred of monkeys.

[Nanjing Massacre Anniversery Racist Remark Mode]

Why, because they look like Japanese?

[/Nanjing Massacre Anniversery Racist Remark Mode]

	13-12-2002 17:04									#8
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The suffering of China at Japan's hands is still not well known, and as time passes, it will only further fade.

Remember the people of Nanking, who were murdered simply because they wern't Japanese, and remember that racism is as vile as it's evil.

	13-12-2002 17:36									#9
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I spent 7 years in Asia as a child. My parents were missionaries, and we lived on Okinawa where my dad worked at a Christian radio station that broadcast in English, Japanese and Chinese. The war was less than 20 years in the past when we arrived, and the scars were still visible on Okinawa, the Phillipines, Taiwan, and pretty much everywhere we went in East Asia and the Pacific. One of my father's colleagues spent the war in a concentration camp with her family in the Phillipines. She was a little girl at that time. I had my first nightmares after heaing her tell her stories. Her family was kept in terrible conditions, and they were lucky that only two of the children died from malnutrition / disease.

The Okinawans also had plenty of horror stories from the war. They were used as human shields by the IJA even though they were considered Japanese citizens. One hundred thousand perished in a very short time between the ruthlessness of the Japanese and the firepower of the Americans. I heard similar stories of murder and disdain for the safety of civilians in the Phillipines and in Hong Kong as well. I wish more Japanese were open to hearing the truth about that war and the behavior of their own troops. They were not only guilty of starting the series of wars, but of abominable crimes done just for the hell of it in many instances. While I have a great deal of love and respect for Japanese people in general (I grew up with an Okinawan nanny and was completely bilingual until I went to school) they still need to do some work on this. Putting their hands over their ears and humming loudly doesn't cut it.

	13-12-2002 17:41									#10
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The Japs would have come to terms with the past if the US hadn't let the emporer get away with being a war criminal.

They didn't have to go through what the Germans did in terms of the guilt thing.

(of course they got nuked so that may have been considered punishment enough)

	13-12-2002 19:56									#11
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Best anti-nuke protest I ever saw had a picture from a school that was about 500 yards from where the bomb went off in Hiroshima.

At the time they dropped the bomb, there were kids out playing in front of the building, and all that was left of them where the little bright "shadows" burned into the concrete. (The initial heatwave from the blast hadn't scorched the concrete quite as bad in those spots where there had been objects or bodies in the way. Hence the "shadows" where bright instead of dark.)

There was a little shadow there that appeared to be making a jumping movement. It was reaching out with both arms, and just beyond reach of those little hands, there was another small "shadow", which was all round...

He was just about to catch a ball...

	13-12-2002 21:09									#12
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We probably should have remade Japanese society while we were at it. They're still horribly racist. At least they aren't militarists anymore (for the most part--fascism is still trendy there).

	13-12-2002 21:21									#13
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Can't push to much Che.

Look at the modern world, any hint of trying to force change brings a million foes.

	13-12-2002 22:13									#14
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In 1945, things were different. Everyone but the US was in a shambles, the 3rd World was mostly colonial, so it had no voice. Japan was in no position to resist, and even the USSR needed a few years before the Cold War started.

Problem with my plan is, we were still horrible racists at the time as well.

	14-12-2002 00:45									#15
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara In 1945, things were different. Everyone but the US was in a shambles, the 3rd World was mostly colonial, so it had no voice. Japan was in no position to resist, and even the USSR needed a few years before the Cold War started. Problem with my plan is, we were still horrible racists at the time as well.

in american history in highschool we read articles from the ww2 era, and one had the line "the japanese would make lousy fighter pilots, they're all nearsighted"

that was before pearl harbor, obviously.

but yea. rascism ran high. still fairly high in a lot of the world. we've come a long way though, i guess, well, some of us.

	14-12-2002 00:56									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Guardian Best anti-nuke protest I ever saw had a picture from a school that was about 500 yards from where the bomb went off in Hiroshima. At the time they dropped the bomb, there were kids out playing in front of the building, and all that was left of them where the little bright "shadows" burned into the concrete. (The initial heatwave from the blast hadn't scorched the concrete quite as bad in those spots where there had been objects or bodies in the way. Hence the "shadows" where bright instead of dark.) There was a little shadow there that appeared to be making a jumping movement. It was reaching out with both arms, and just beyond reach of those little hands, there was another small "shadow", which was all round... He was just about to catch a ball...

In Nagasaki, there's an ironic one where a soldier on guard duty couldn't leave his post, but had to take a leak. The carbon is imprinted into the wall, but you can clearly see him assuming the permission, rifle at his side, leather web gear hanging from a post, a line of droplets on the wall. What a way to be immortalized.

The atomic bombings were tragic and evil, but considered with conventional bombing, or invasion, they were the quickest, least lethal (and therefore relatively less evil) end to the war that was possible based on all facts that were known.

	14-12-2002 00:58									#17
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Horrific. I would like to see more attention given to the suffering of those under the IJA. People nowadays seem to have no clue what they did in occupied territories. Everyone knows the Holocaust, but the victims of these atrocities seem to lie forgotten.

	14-12-2002 01:05									#18
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara We probably should have remade Japanese society while we were at it. They're still horribly racist. At least they aren't militarists anymore (for the most part--fascism is still trendy there).

We did, but the question is how much, and for how long do you "remake" a society.

If you compare post-Meiji Japan from say, the Shinpuren incident to Ni-Ni-Roku through the end of the war with modern Japan, the differences are incredible. The Japanese have no monopoly on Asian racism, nor do they have a monopoly on wanting to wear blinders about the truth.

	14-12-2002 01:08									#19
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The Nanjing massacre was a horrible, horrible tragedy. The attrocities of the Germans during the war are well-documented, we have largely forgotten what bastards the IJA were.

-edit seemed to have cross-posted with Boris.

	14-12-2002 09:18									#20
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quote: We probably should have remade Japanese society while we were at it. They're still horribly racist. At least they aren't militarists anymore (for the most part--fascism is still trendy there).

While this is certainly true, the Japanese don't have a monopoly on horrible racism, as MtG has said. The Chinese and Koreans can be just as bad, which doesn't bode well for future relations in that part of the world. The odds of another Nanjing massacre happening in the future are not insignificant.

	14-12-2002 09:37									#21
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quote: The Japs would have come to terms with the past if the US hadn't let the emporer get away with being a war criminal.

The Emperor was powerless to prevent anything after 1937 IMHO.

The atrocities of the IJA and the Kwangtung Army fade because they're underpublicised.

	14-12-2002 14:14									#22
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It's truely staggering how little the Japanese kids know about what the IJA did in WWII. There are a few Japaneses, mostly ex-IJA soldiers, are going around the country telling their own eyewitness stories of the IJA brutalities. There's also a director who collected film footages to put together as a sort of documentary. A whole bunch of HS kids came out weeping after seeing the doco - that was the first time they got a clue of what had gone on in the occupied territories.

	15-12-2002 04:38									#23
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I recently saw a Chinese documentary about a commercial shipping line on the Yangtze River that suddenly became the lifeline for hundreds of thousands fleeing the advancing Japanese armies.

One old worker started crying when he recounted how Japanese planes frequently strafed and bombed the overburdened riverboats filled with refugees.

	15-12-2002 06:08									#24
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k-19 turned me against nuclear power in general. It must have been those scenes with the people volunterring to go into the reactor to fix it without having protective gear and then all burned and roasted 15 minutes later,

	15-12-2002 07:50									#25
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*bows head in moment of silence for Nanjing victims*

	15-12-2002 09:42									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia k-19 turned me against nuclear power in general. It must have been those scenes with the people volunterring to go into the reactor to fix it without having protective gear and then all burned and roasted 15 minutes later,

We were told about it and several other, but we could talk to the public about them. The K-19 is real.
At my old job I had a list of all the incident.

	15-12-2002 09:43									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Shadowstrike *bows head in moment of silence for Nanjing victims*

Nanjing is not the only city that the Japanese work over. They hit a few other just as bad.

You guys should read the Ghost Company/Pattoon/something, can't remember the correct title, but Ghost is part of the title.
It is the story of our POW from Bataan and their treatment under the Japanese. One of our guys was killed for drinking water on the road to c. camp. This Japanese soldier took his sword and parted the man head to his shoulder area right down the middle of his head.

	15-12-2002 10:39									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten While this is certainly true, the Japanese don't have a monopoly on horrible racism, as MtG has said. The Chinese and Koreans can be just as bad, which doesn't bode well for future relations in that part of the world. The odds of another Nanjing massacre happening in the future are not insignificant.

The world has changed. Racism is still rampant, but modern nations are far too dependent on each other, while weapons have become too lethal. Superpowers no longer feel the urge to attack each other - they now tend to go for smaller nations and factions together.

------------------

Back to the topic.

IN MEMORIAM.

	15-12-2002 12:33									#29
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From People's Daily:

quote: Li Xiuying (2nd R), a survivor of the notorious Nanjing Massacre, presents flowers to the compatriots slaughtered in the Massacre by the Japanese invaders, in the Nanjing Memorial Hall here Dec. 13, 2002. Some 3,000 people from home and abroad held a rally here Friday in commemoration of the 65th anniversary of the death of 300,000 people during the Massacre.

	15-12-2002 13:24									#30
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quote: The world has changed. Racism is still rampant, but modern nations are far too dependent on each other, while weapons have become too lethal. Superpowers no longer feel the urge to attack each other

You could've said the exact same thing before WWI. I appreciate your optimism, but I don't know if I share it.