20-12-2002 09:14									#1
	Could use some advice about my situation Put an end to popups!

I try to leave my personal life off the boards as much as possible, but as some of you know, I've been struggling a lot with this and I'm really not sure what to do.

A little background: I had a girlfriend for 3 years. I was madly in love with her, as she was with me. We attended the same University, and had a great first semester. Things started getting a little shaky, and she ended it with me last April. She dated a bit, but nothing remotely serious, and then decided she wanted to get back together. I still needed a little time (although I didn't want to date anyone) so i told her we'd wait and see what would happen when we got back to college. A week before we came back she started 'seeing' her best friend's quasi-boyfriend who was also coming here to Uni (a grade below us) and they became friends, but she assured me that's all it was.

I found out that she had slept with him (just in her bed nothing else) and got quite angry at that...so I avoided her for a bit...then we became friends again and had a long talk: she said she was done with being single and wanted me back. I asked her for a little time to think it over, and also asked if anything was going on with the guy. She said no, and I asked her if she had or would consider having sex with him, and she said no, and that she would never ever think of doing that with him or anyone until they were in a long term committed relationship...and I believed her. After 'getting back together' with her (or at least, damn close) I discovered a carton of condoms in her top drawer (no, i wasn't snooping, I wanted a brush) and she confessed that they were indeed screwing.

I told her I never wanted to see her again, and for the past 2.5 months - I didn't.

Recently she E-mailed me, asking if she could talk to me, pleading with me, that she had made the biggest mistake of her life and she just wanted to apologize in person. I told her I would meet her on my terms - neutrality...so we met and she apologized. I didn't speak, only listened.

Though I have absolutely no desire to get back together with her, or even be friends with her, I'm worried about her well being. She has gone from a straight A student to a D student. Her fashion and music sense has drastically changed, and she now wears hoodies and layers, loose clothes, has cut her hair shorter, and listens to depressing music. I almost did not recognize her. She joined a sorority last semester, which she used to vocally HATE not long ago, and this semester I know from others that she has engaged in heavy drinking (very very unlike her) and partying. Not to mention the fact that earlier she pretty much had sex with a guy she barely knew (also very very unlike her) She has also said:

quote: please dont think that a day goes by that i dont want to shoot myself in the head for my actions.

She still appears happy, her soft spoken cheery voice unchanged, but I still wonder if it is right to take action.

Is it my place? What would you recommend?

	20-12-2002 09:16									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I would help if I knew how

Jon Miller

	20-12-2002 09:20									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I don't really see what you could do. Her actions towards you seem to be to be symptomatic of her emotional troubles, not the cause. You could encourage her to seek professional help if she isn't already and you believe she's in deep emotional distress.

Other than that, I don't know. But if you're implying you feel some sort of guilt about her situation, that you should take her back to "save" her, then cut it out! You're not responsible for her state of affairs, of course.

	20-12-2002 09:28									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

no no no, of course not. God I can barely stand the thought of her, let alone the presence of her in my life.

But that doesn't mean I'm tossing out my humanist side (as much as I sometimes wish I could in this case...)

I mean, I'm an RA, so I've been trained in what to do with people who go through this kind of change. But I think there is a certain "I know you" factor that could change how I should deal with this...and also...it's not as if I have something I can point to. Maybe she just experienced new things at college and changed her tastes. Maybe she likes her hair shorter. Maybe she feels more comftorable in the clothes she's wearing now.

Or maybe I'm just trying to justify it all in my mind. I certainly don't feel at all guilty. It's her fault that I hate her so much. It's just a shame, because with me in her life, she was so much happier and such a better person. That sounds conceited, i know, but i know it's true...the evidence is clear.

	20-12-2002 09:28									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

don't toss the humanist side

see if you can get her help

Jon Miller

	20-12-2002 09:28									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

It seems that she's developing some kind of psychological disorder, so professional help is recommended. The thing you can do is to make sure she gets help.

Some people goes through a personality change in their early twenties, so this could also be what's happening with her. Still, she should get some diagnosis just to be sure.

	20-12-2002 09:38									#7
	Remove this text

So wait:
1. You date.
2. You break up.
3. She dates someone else during which she has sex that she didn't tell you about.
4. She wants to break up with someone else and get back with you.

Maybe I'm just really thick skinned but since she only had sex with someone else when you were broken up I don't really understand what the big deal is (of course the reason's probably buried in the huge amounts I don't know about the situation). If I was in your position I would have taken her back months ago, especially since the alternative obviously isn't doing her much good...

	20-12-2002 09:39									#8
	Tired of ads?

bah! professionals... Last thing I need in my life is someone telling me what to do...

wait, we're not talking about me,

	20-12-2002 09:42									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller don't toss the humanist side see if you can get her help Jon Miller

from the looks of it, i wouldnt say she even needs help. Just because someone's grade falls and they are listening to "those kinds" of music means they are unhappy. Thats so lifetime original-esque. College is often the place where you find out more about yourself.

maybe she does, but not from what ornage tells me.

	20-12-2002 09:43									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Most universities provide free counseling... she should be guided into getting some.

	20-12-2002 09:46									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Boshko So wait: 1. You date. 2. You break up. 3. She dates someone else during which she has sex that she didn't tell you about. 4. She wants to break up with someone else and get back with you. Maybe I'm just really thick skinned but since she only had sex with someone else when you were broken up I don't really understand what the big deal is (of course the reason's probably buried in the huge amounts I don't know about the situation). If I was in your position I would have taken her back months ago, especially since the alternative obviously isn't doing her much good...

Hm... I think the main reason orange didn't is she lied to him. What you said also makes sense.

Tough choice, eh?

	20-12-2002 09:47									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: I think the main reason orange didn't is she lied to him. What you said also makes sense.

Right lying never makes restarting a relationship easier, but then who she was having sex with after they broke with shouldn't be all that relavant.

	20-12-2002 09:48									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

If it were me, I'd take her back, probably, but then again I'm a sucker for sympathy cases.

	20-12-2002 10:02									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger professional help

	20-12-2002 10:06									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Calc II from the looks of it, i wouldnt say she even needs help. Just because someone's grade falls and they are listening to "those kinds" of music means they are unhappy. Thats so lifetime original-esque. College is often the place where you find out more about yourself. maybe she does, but not from what ornage tells me.

I think he knows her better than us

he is concerned, that is enough

Jon Miller

	20-12-2002 10:07									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

you have to charge your ice beam for this one, orange, and fire it whenever she opens her mouth, thats the only way to do it.

oh, nevermind.

	20-12-2002 10:23									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

well...I did what I thought I should do at this moment in time. I secured the fact that she is indeed ok, and is not thinking about harming herself or suicide.

With that squared away we both have time to analyze the situation. I approached her, told her what I saw, explained that I was concerned, and asked if she was ok. She said she thought she was, but now that she realizes what I'm saying, it isn't like her and she was ashamed, I think. For now though i know she is not in harm's way.

Alls I got that was concrete was: "You really are the only person that has ever cared about me, aren't you?"

I didn't answer.

Boshko: I place a great deal of meaning on sex and honesty. She gave to some almost random guy what I built with her in 3 years. Then she lied about it to me, both before and after the fact. I had to 'discover' what was going on. I was played the fool. That is why I didn't take her back, and that is why I won't.

	20-12-2002 10:38									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

Who she slept with when she wasn't dating you is nonyadamnbiznez. You had no right to ask her, nor did you have any right to expect the truth from her, cuz it was nonyadamnbiznez. She likely felt that lying to you was the only way to maintain a relationship in the face of what was an unreasonable demand on your part. You deserved to be lied to, cuz it was nonyadamnbiznez. You wronged her, not the other way around.

	20-12-2002 11:02									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't care what you say, Che. I'm well within my rights to know the terms of my relationship with a person, especially my (at the time) best friend and (at the time) love interest. If I don't wish to be in a relationship with someone who so willingly enters into sexual relations, whether I be morally or otherwise against it, I should expect the truth when I ask.

If I had asked if she had any sexually transmitted diseases, and she said no, but she did, wouldn't you feel that I was within my rights to ask and be told an honest answer?

	20-12-2002 11:07									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

whoa che showed me a new word. way to go che.
what does it mean anyway? (nonyadamnbiznez)

I thought the issue was about her well being, but if you still have some feeling in there and is conflicted about it, that tells me that you value being faithful and honest over her. Even though it means you and her didnt have a relationship then. Honesty may sound like a good reason, but you're still saying that she's not valued enough for you compared to your principle of honesty. If shes not on the first thing in your list, she's probabaly not for you anyway.

EDIT: ugh just got it now. Cant beleive i thought it was a word for a sec. lol

	20-12-2002 11:10									#21
	Tired of ads?

it is your business if you want it to be, as long as you recognise that you may be asked to back off

life is about making things that are not your business your business

Jon Miller

	20-12-2002 11:14									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't see how it wasn't my business. She wanted to get back together with me. It's not as if I came out of no where asking her to tell me about who she'd been sleeping with. The question was important to my decision to get back together with her or not. Personally, I need to value the character and chastity of any partner I would have. Girls that sleep around are not the types of girls I want to date. This case was no exception. If she intended to sleep around, or knew that she would if given the chance, she should have said "I'd rather not discuss this" at which case I would not wish to persue the relationship as she was not willing to be honest and up front about that. If that person would rather not be with someone that asks those types of questions, or cares about that, then good...she just found out that I'm no good for her.

	20-12-2002 11:16									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by orange I don't care what you say, Che. I'm well within my rights to know the terms of my relationship with a person, especially my (at the time) best friend and (at the time) love interest. If I don't wish to be in a relationship with someone who so willingly enters into sexual relations, whether I be morally or otherwise against it, I should expect the truth when I ask. If I had asked if she had any sexually transmitted diseases, and she said no, but she did, wouldn't you feel that I was within my rights to ask and be told an honest answer?

But you werent in a relationship with her while she was sleeping around with people.

As for honesty, perhaps your're one of those people you rather not want to tell the truth. I dunno if you guys understand what im saying but there are some people who id rather lie since they really suck at dealing with the truth. Or mayber its her.. Id have to know the situation more before I judge her for lying about somethign like this.

	20-12-2002 11:17									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Calc II whoa che showed me a new word. way to go che. what does it mean anyway? (nonyadamnbiznez) I thought the issue was about her well being, but if you still have some feeling in there and is conflicted about it, that tells me that you value being faithful and honest over her. Even though it means you and her didnt have a relationship then. Honesty may sound like a good reason, but you're still saying that she's not valued enough for you compared to your principle of honesty. If shes not on the first thing in your list, she's probabaly not for you anyway.

I think I've established that Her well being is all I'm concerned about at this point. As a human, with regards to another human, I am worried about her well being, and that is it. I don't care about friendship, I don't care about love. I care about a human's well being.

quote: EDIT: ugh just got it now. Cant beleive i thought it was a word for a sec. lol

	20-12-2002 11:18									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

so?

what people have done in the past gives basis for how they will act in the future

JOn Miller

	20-12-2002 11:19									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I find all guys wanting to sleep with multiple innocent virgin girls funny... Unless ratio is like 50:1, it aint gonna happen. but i go off topic.

quote: she just found out that I'm no good for her.

You mean shes no good for you. But thats okay. If other thing is more valuable than her, than you shouldnt be seeking relationship with her anyway.

	20-12-2002 11:21									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Calc II But you werent in a relationship with her while she was sleeping around with people.

No, but she was asking to get back together with me, and I was considering in, but told her I needed a little time to think it over.

quote: As for honesty, perhaps your're one of those people you rather not want to tell the truth. I dunno if you guys understand what im saying but there are some people who id rather lie since they really suck at dealing with the truth. Or mayber its her.. Id have to know the situation more before I judge her for lying about somethign like this.

Truthfully, yes. In matters of the heart I am not one to be lied to. I value honesty above almost all other things. When you lie to me you rarely get a chance to do it again. I gave this girl a chance to do it again 3 years ago when she cheated on me. She did it again, and that's that.

I am not violent, but I am vengeful. I forget, but I never forgive. I hold grudges in these matters. When the discovery was made I told her, quite calmly and rationally, "I don't wish to see you anymore" and exited the room. I did not slam a door, I did not raise my voice, I did not threaten or curse.

	20-12-2002 11:21									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

it is not innocent virgin girls

but if a girl has a history of being easy, yes I think it would be reasonable to be less interested in her (or more interested in her as the case may be)

Jon Miller

	20-12-2002 11:24									#29
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Calc II You mean shes no good for you. But thats okay. If other thing is more valuable than her, than you shouldnt be seeking relationship with her anyway.

No. I meant what I said. If she doesn't like the type of person who would ask such questions, than that's a good thing that I asked, because she realizes "he asks those types of questions. I don't like that. He's no good for me"

	20-12-2002 11:25									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

well all I can say is, for me I rarely have conflicts with these things.. if i find myself conflicting over a relationship and my principle or whatever it may be, i think about whats more valuable. The relationship or whatever I compare it to. Sometimes I compare it to such trivial thing such as 'having peace and quiet' or sometimes really important thing such as honesty. So far only one relationship has passed beyond all doubt and it had to end... but i know if I find somebody like that again... I wont have to worry about if she's "clean" or "honest" to me.. i dunno if u understand what im sayin.